what a bunch of bankers

Discussion in 'Politics' started by 123scotty, Dec 5, 2009.

  1. 123scotty

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    after rbs almost going bust. endless amounts of bail out cash. and paying of hundreds of staff. yes do you think the people who caused this mess should get a bonus?. the uk government is is the main share holder do as the french done. fire them. after all if they resign as they threaten which i think is an emptive threat. call there bluff and sell some shares. new labour is so scared of bankers the banks know they will get away with it.
     
  2. B_Mister Buildington

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    this is dildos
     
  3. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    does anyone else, when seeing the barclay's(?) advert where its like "here to help you" go "ofcourse you fucking are! i own you!"
     
  4. Qua

    Qua
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    While on the Whole I agree that those responsible for this mess don't deserve any mercy, many bankers take extremely low salaries (sometimes as low as $1) and make all their money on performance bonuses.

    No reason for a decent hardworking person to be left out to dry because all bonuses are considered bad. That's kind of simply how finance industry compensation works. Obviously it's excessive and in many cases unwarranted, but eliminating them altogether isn't really feasible or appropriate.
     
  5. houtx48

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    how many performance bonuses awards did any of the above received this year?
     
  6. Qua

    Qua
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    I don't know. I can't give you that data, and I don't think anyone really can, since most compensation is private. I was only saying that bonuses have become a buzzword for greed, when in some cases they are the only compensation received, money wholly dependent on job performance.
     
  7. homelessmandril

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    it might not come as very much consolation to other UK taxpayers (it's not all that comforting to me, to be honest), but i suppose at least these bonuses are taxable. so £20 billion in bonuses gets dished out every year and the exchequer gets £8 billion back. nice!

    hey and why don't they take that national dividend and put £150 in the pocket of every citizen.....well why not?
     
  8. jb007

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    appreciate the sentiment but don't think Barclays had a hand out (might be wrong but don't think so)
     
  9. D_Relentless Original

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    Let them resign,call their bluff they will stay and then sell more shares to the public.
     
  10. rob_just_rob

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    I had intended to stay out of these threads... but really, if you refuse to pay bonuses to your top performing employees, they'll just leave to go work for another bank that will pay market value for top talent. And good luck rebuilding a battered company without your best people.
     
  11. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Where I come from, you have to actually prove that you deserve a bonus.
    Your name, reputation, past successes, where you went to school, etc... was only good enough to get you in the door. But once you're there, if you mess up you pay for it. Sadly, many people in these high profile jobs think they deserve everything because they have the titles. They don't think they deserve to lose anything when the market crumbles even if it's their decisions that lead to all of the losses.

    There's always someone without the name recognition who not only has the work ethic to do the job right, but is also hungry enough to do it even better than the ones with all of the fame & glory. I don't mind if some of these high profilers decide to walk out because times got tough and they thought they were too good to get their hands dirty like the rest. It just proves that they never deserved their title to begin with.
     
  12. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    i dont know if it is barclays but yeah all bankers
     
  13. Jason

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    Sometimes I agree entirely with this view. And sometimes I think it is completely wrong.

    Within the UK we have many senior roles filled by people with skills of a high order who receive no pay or low pay. More than 90% of court cases are presided over by magistrates who are unpaid. Academics at universities in the UK get surprisingly low salaries. I'm not sure that there is necessarily a reason why we should pay top bankers top salaries ... unless it really is the case that they would all run off elsewhere and couldn't be replaced.

    Even if the system we have at present is that all our top bankers will bunk off if they don't get the bonuses they want we do have the option of changing the system. A country that can have most of its judges unpaid and has many other unpaid public offices could surely find a public service solution for unpaid banking experts. Yes of course we want the very best running our banks, and one of the criteria of being the very best is selflessness in the decisions made, untarnished by considerations of personal gain.

    Right now I think we probably do have to work with the mess we have, even if that means making a lot of greedy men richer. I think we need to move towards a system where only the junior jobs in banks are paid and the senior roles are basically unpaid.
     
  14. BigDallasDick8x6

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    If NOBODY pays excessive bonuses, where will they run off TO??
     
  15. dandelion

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    Banks are a monopoly which has got out of control. The British car industry died because someone in the far east learnt how to make cars better and cheaper. But banks don't make anything. They take a cut on finacial transactions between people who make things. A successful banker is not someone who makes a better car, but one who devises a better way of tricking the market so more of that cut falls in his lap. If a banker wins, it is at the expense of everyone else in the real manufacturing economy. A car manufacturer going bust has to make a better car to stay in business, and we get a better car to use. A banker going bust has to devise a way to skim more money. And we lose.

    How did this come to be thought of as a good thing? Why do we want to give bankers bonuses for taking away more of our money?
     
  16. rob_just_rob

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    Someone will always pay more. My point was that if you limit bonuses at the bailed-out firms, the non bailed-out firms will have an advantage in recruiting valuable employees from the firms with compensation limits.
     
  17. dandelion

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    The response to that argument is to challenge the assumption that these really are valuable employees. There are always more people coming along wanting to do a job. The thing is that the people claiming these bankers are irreplaceable are those self same bankers. They all say that no one could do their job better than them? Gee. Thats unusual. Or, as someone pointed out in answer to this self same question, Fred Goodman, chairman of bankrupt RBS was not a banker. The new chap recently appointed to fix the company used to run sainsburys (a supermarket). OK, they are top management not money jugglers, but we are also complaining about their performance. But we are only able to talk about them as examples because we know who they are and exactly what they have done to deserve their bonuses (ie nothing) and their personal banking knowledge which apparently is not essential to do the job.

    You are right, if one bank sufferes restrictions it will be at a commercial disadvantage. On the other hand santander, a spanish bank, where they already had tougher regulation, had just bought up some of the bankrupt british ones. Tough regulation worked for them. And then again, maybe we could only regulate for british banks, so we stop the british ones going bust and let the american ones get on with it. How is that worse than leaving them all to do it again? These whopping profits are not just the result of clever capable people doing well, they are more the result of average people taking risks.

    The problem with bonuses like this is that they change the game. If you can make enough money in a couple of years to retire, why not go for it? If the bank goes bust, it doen't cost you anything. If you win, you get to retire in luxury while you can still enjoy it. The bonus makes you want to take risks with other peoples money. This is not not not good.
     
  18. 123scotty

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    the thing with paying out big salaries and bonus payments to keep the best bankers would be more believable if it wasn't the same people that caused the problems in the first place. why not let rbs go bust and do what ing done to bearings bought the bank for £1 .the government can call an extraordinary meeting and hire or fire who they choose just as the french have done.
     
  19. rob_just_rob

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    That's an awfully big assumption. Hard to blame your equity traders and merchant bankers for what happened in structured credit and derivatives trading. But I guess if you work for a bank, you're guilty by association. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Sergeant_Torpedo

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    This is the same old excuse that the greedy rich have spouted ever since the 1940s, judges, senior civil servants, even chief constables these days, and always the money lenders and bankers. They will go elsewhere; let them go. There are plenty of people younger coming up who can do their job. But we are so brainwashed into believing people with money are better than we are. And the disimulating politicians? They are going to tax them - but not harshly, in the same week Brown and his cronies have raided our pension funds again. What does a a son of the manse, and a morganatic royal pudding faced Cameron know about morality?
     
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