what car should I get????!?!?!

350Z

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To understand how a BMW is, you need to go out and drive one. I have driven a 3,5,7 and X series BMWs and they handle, brake and corner amazingly when you consire its size. You can't compare a MazdaSpeed3 to theses cars, they are in a different league.
 

transformer_99

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Mercurialbliss, dong20 and 350Z, I'll address your posts with the following:

No, haven't driven either, but your Mazda, is it the Mazdaspeed3 or is it the regular Mazda3 ? The original post was for the Mazdaspeed3. Those would be two different cars just the same to compare.

As for confidence, don't go by marketing hype. The numbers are gathered on the same test track under the same weather conditions by driver's who do that for a living when the comparison is made. I tend to think I am a pretty good driver and can put any vehicle thru it's paces. Then again, nobody hands me the keys to every new model to test drive on a road course specifically designed to take a vehicle to it's limits while challenging the driving skills of the best drivers in the world. That said, when one car goes thru a slalom, I doubt that a winding mountain road is anywhere nearly as challenging, especially when that same road was paved so an 18 wheeler could haul a full load of cargo on that very same road.

As for lap times, again, a road course, a slower time means that one vehicle & it's driver performed poorer in any of a series of events negotiating that road course that involved cornering, braking, and accelerating at any given point in that road course. When the BMW goes thru slower, it's not the winner and can't be considered superior, regardless of how much more it costs. So we have to ask, was it braking, cornering or accelerating, even a combination, where the BMW fell short ? This to me is handling across the board.

G's, that's a skidpad where the car is circled and taken to a point where it goes out of control, for example, the top of the line 2007 BMW 335i, pulls .87 g's, simply unimpressive in that there are a lot of cars on the market that can do that. And you're worried you'll find a way to go off the side of the mountain in a Mazdaspeed3 ?

"http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/11733/2007-bmw-335i-coupe-specs-page4.html"

"HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g"

"http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/11724/2007-mazdaspeed-3.html"

"and circled a dusty, less-than-perfect skidpad to produce a brag-worthy 0.87 g."

I can't imagine that .87g's in a BMW is any different than .87g's in a Mazdaspeed3. A g-force doesn't know who made the car or even how much you paid for it.

Curb weight, another aspect, the Mazdaspeed is 3180 lbs, the BMW 3558, that's 378 lbs. Even the 328i comes in @ 3420 lbs. The Mazda isn't the lightest car ever made, but the BMW has to feel like a bloated pig in comparison. All things equal, a smaller and lighter car is always going to be more nimble and maneuverable. That's simply a fact, it's not subjective.

2007 BMW 328i - Comparison Tests - Car and Driver April 2007

Make sure you download the test sheet on the last page of the review, the numbers for a 40K BMW are simply unimpressive compared to the less expensive Mazda when the cost of these two are factored in. The BMW is 15K more. Look at acceleration the Mazda is the winner pure and simple beyond 40 mph, by tenths of a second. At 40-50 mph, it's closer, but at the end of 1/4 mile, the Mazda is nearly a 1/2 second quicker @ 99 mph, that's 73 feet ahead of the BMW (nearly 5 car lengths of the Mazda) when the BMW reaches the 1/4 mile mark @ 14.8 seconds (assuming the Mazda stabilizes and lets off the gas after embarassing the nazi-shitbox, if he continues the humiliation the Mazda is now doing 100 mph in the same 14.8 seconds and that distance is even greater.). Top speed, the Mazda does 155 and the BMW 148 mph. Considering 5 car lengths in the 1/4 mile, after 20 minutes @ top speed, the Mazda would now be 2.333 miles ahead of the BMW. Would the Mazda driver even know a BMW was on the same road behind him, if 20 minutes into this trip, if he forgot he ever saw a BMW, when he passed it somewhere around accelerating to 40 mph from a dead stop ? Yes the 2 cars are in different classes, the BMW is a long forgotten, overpriced, slow POS out on I-10 in the middle of Texas.

I don't have to drive either vehicle to know which car is really superior. Sure you can find a BMW 3 (335i specifically, but even that is still slower regarding top end speed, eventually the Mazda catches it's prey and leaves it behind with enough open straight away) or any other series that eventually bests the Mazdaspeed3. But these road tests simply are mythbusters, the BMW is no better than many other vehicles. I'd rather have a Porsche anyway for speed and Mercedes is a far finer vehicle for luxury. That is, if German cars are what you have to have ?
 

Rikter8

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When the BMW goes thru slower, it's not the winner and can't be considered superior, regardless of how much more it costs.

A g-force doesn't know who made the car or even how much you paid for it.

Curb weight; All things equal, a smaller and lighter car is always going to be more nimble and maneuverable. That's simply a fact, it's not subjective.

Ok, I didn't know you were looking for All Out performance.

If you want that, go with either a Trans Am WS6, or a Corvette Z06.

I wouldnt buy new...so here's my alternate selection.

1984 Chevette and put a LS6 under the hood. Polyurethane bushings, 10" tires, racing shocks, stabilized suspention, 4 wheel disc conversion, roll cage (for safety)and your ready to go. You should be able to do all of that for less than $25K.

Element of suprise on the Porche, BMW, any anything else. It's smaller, lighter, and with the LS6, the power to weight ratio would be insane.
Well...except if they notice the 10" tiress.....
Just dont punch it at 180mph, as the rear tires will loose traction and take the car sideways. (Possibly scaring the piss out of the guy with the $100K sports car trying to beat you).

(you may laugh, but those of you that know me, KNOW I do this stuff....)
 

Male Bonding etc

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Wow! As much as I have seen some folks on here go on about behaving responsibly and global warming... cars are such an American fixation... but really, it's time to get electric if you can and hybrid if you can't.

Sexy cars don't look so sexy when you consider their impact on our environment and what we do to secure the fuel for them.
 

NCbear

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I only buy Honda and Toyota products. Mazda's are really Fords. So are Volvos.

The Consumer Reports Auto Edition is out. Do not buy anything they do not recommend. My friends have gone against their recommendations to the tune of thousands of dollars in repairs and maintenance.

That being said, I think they actuall recommend tha Mazda 6.

Lex, I'd say it the other way around re: Mazdas. The Ford Fusion and most recent new Volvo are based on the Mazda6 platform, according to a recent Car and Driver. In-house Ford engineers did NOT create the Mazda6 platform.

And Consumer Reports now recommends the Mazda6 because its quality and reliability went up after the first 3 years being on the US market. So I bought one. [I agree on that point, Lex: going against Consumer Reports is like standing in front of a hurricane with your palm out saying "Stop!"]

I really like my new Mazda6. Bought it on December 1 and put 9000 miles on it before the end of March. [And I only have a 5-minute commute.]

NCbear (who likes to drive fun cars, if they can be had at a reasonable cost)
 

CelticLad

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Wow! As much as I have seen some folks on here go on about behaving responsibly and global warming... cars are such an American fixation... but really, it's time to get electric if you can and hybrid if you can't.

Sexy cars don't look so sexy when you consider their impact on our environment and what we do to secure the fuel for them.

Securing your car full stop in Mexico is problematic at the best of times...
 

viking1

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Wow! As much as I have seen some folks on here go on about behaving responsibly and global warming... cars are such an American fixation... but really, it's time to get electric if you can and hybrid if you can't.

Sexy cars don't look so sexy when you consider their impact on our environment and what we do to secure the fuel for them.

Electric cars nor hybrids are worth a crap out here in the boonies.
Hilly, mountainous, rural areas don't mix with these type vehicles.
The hybrids also cost too much and have too many unkowns about battery life and resale value. When they get a viable, resonably priced environmentally friendly car then I will consider one...provided it's big enough for me to fit in comfortably.
 

viking1

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Lex, I'd say it the other way around re: Mazdas. The Ford Fusion and most recent new Volvo are based on the Mazda6 platform, according to a recent Car and Driver. In-house Ford engineers did NOT create the Mazda6 platform.

And Consumer Reports now recommends the Mazda6 because its quality and reliability went up after the first 3 years being on the US market. So I bought one. [I agree on that point, Lex: going against Consumer Reports is like standing in front of a hurricane with your palm out saying "Stop!"]

I really like my new Mazda6. Bought it on December 1 and put 9000 miles on it before the end of March. [And I only have a 5-minute commute.]

NCbear (who likes to drive fun cars, if they can be had at a reasonable cost)

I won't argue with that, but if that's true, why does the Mazda have the same 2.3L inline four as the Ford Ranger pickup? Just curious about that.
 

transformer_99

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Ok, I didn't know you were looking for All Out performance.

If you want that, go with either a Trans Am WS6, or a Corvette Z06.

I wouldnt buy new...so here's my alternate selection.

1984 Chevette and put a LS6 under the hood. Polyurethane bushings, 10" tires, racing shocks, stabilized suspention, 4 wheel disc conversion, roll cage (for safety)and your ready to go. You should be able to do all of that for less than $25K.

Element of suprise on the Porche, BMW, any anything else. It's smaller, lighter, and with the LS6, the power to weight ratio would be insane.
Well...except if they notice the 10" tiress.....
Just dont punch it at 180mph, as the rear tires will loose traction and take the car sideways. (Possibly scaring the piss out of the guy with the $100K sports car trying to beat you).

(you may laugh, but those of you that know me, KNOW I do this stuff....)

I was comparing production cars, the off the showroom floor, nothing special for anyone, a lot where you go pick the color out of silver, black, white, red or blue. Implications and comments were made that a 2007 Mazdaspeed3 didn't have what it took to handle with a BMW 3 series that wasn't specified. I posted road tests not to put anyone in their place, but to put factual data on the table and then did my best to explain that a combination of shorter times and faster speeds under equivalent conditions is better.
 

transformer_99

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Electric cars nor hybrids are worth a crap out here in the boonies.
Hilly, mountainous, rural areas don't mix with these type vehicles.
The hybrids also cost too much and have too many unkowns about battery life and resale value. When they get a viable, resonably priced environmentally friendly car then I will consider one...provided it's big enough for me to fit in comfortably.

"http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/10393/honda-civic-hybrid.html"

From this article, I'd say in the Civic's case it's no more or less a solution as getting the gasoline version of a Civic.

"PATRICK BEDARD
I can’t help myself; I keep watching the mpg display like it’s the Wall Street ticker showing my only stock. Better yet, unlike the Dow—it always shrugs off my best moves—the way I drive matters here. It’s easy to get 45 mpg; just keep a light foot on the pedals, both of them, and don’t spend much time above 60 mph. But hanging on to 50 mpg for more than a few miles takes an expert. I got 47.2 mpg over 157 miles and had not one minute of boredom."

This made me chuckle, it not only sounded hillarious as he described, but perhaps more like a video game to get the 50 mpg. Imagine being so cheap over fuel costs and what you get mpg-wise that you watch this like it's mpg-porn ?
 

SteveHd

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Speaking of electric cars, Tesla is "accepting reservations" for 2008 model-year cars. Not many cars can boast 0-to-60 in ~4 seconds.
 

dong20

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.... Implications and comments were made that a 2007 Mazdaspeed3 didn't have what it took to handle with a BMW 3 series that wasn't specified. I posted road tests not to put anyone in their place, but to put factual data on the table and then did my best to explain that a combination of shorter times and faster speeds under equivalent conditions is better.

Errr, no I specified the BMW330i, I know this because I wrote :

dong20 said:
For example, an '06 Infiniti M45 (basically a Nissan Gloria) a car with better power/weight ratio of 11.32 lbs/HP than an '06 BMW330i (13.4 lbs/HP), shorter 60-0 braking distance of 114ft (BMW 120ft) better lateral g of .90 (BMW .89). Well, it may be better on paper but on the road which do you think would handle better? They're in a different league.

I don't feel put in my place, sorry.:rolleyes:

....I don't have to drive either vehicle to know which car is really superior.

If you haven't driven a car you are in no position to make a 'definitive' statements about it. Period. In the same way one (or anyone with any sense) wouldn't say which was a better sounding HIFI stereo based purely on technical specs without hearing it, it would be nonsensical. Anyone one buys a HIFI based on how it sounds and the two are NOT the same.

I've no interest in a pissing contest with you (or anyone) about car handling, partly because I couldn't care less but mostly because when you things like:

....(assuming the Mazda stabilizes and lets off the gas after embarassing the nazi-shitbox...

It becomes quite obvious where you opnion of BMW and other German cars originates.