what car should I get????!?!?!

Male Bonding etc

Experimental Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Posts
920
Media
0
Likes
17
Points
163
Location
Southwest USA
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
Electric cars nor hybrids are worth a crap out here in the boonies.
Hilly, mountainous, rural areas don't mix with these type vehicles.
The hybrids also cost too much and have too many unkowns about battery life and resale value. When they get a viable, resonably priced environmentally friendly car then I will consider one...provided it's big enough for me to fit in comfortably.
I don't drive my hybrid in the mountains, but most people with 4WD and other gas consuming options never do either. I've driven over 100,000 miles in mine and have had NO problems with the battery or anything mechanical... really no problems to speak of, period.

Obviously, people who haul things and live in mountainous areas, can't use most of the hybrids currently available. However, most of us live where we can make some better choices regarding transportation, and the problems we face nationally and internationally really CAN start with our own willingness to make smart choices.

Believe me, I drool over gas guzzling "muscle" cars just as much as the next guy, but (witness the Tesla mentioned previously) more can be done to make the cars both sexy and responsible.
 

Golfbuddy

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Posts
215
Media
0
Likes
147
Points
263
I want a sexy yet responsible car, but it's not happening the way I wanted, so I went ahead and indulged in a BMW Z4 anyway. The mileage sucks. But it looks great, handles superbly. Probably should have looked into a hybrid, but...nah!
 

transformer_99

Experimental Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Posts
2,429
Media
0
Likes
9
Points
183
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
"Errr, no I specified the BMW330i, I know this because I wrote :"

Agreed, Mercurialbliss only said new BMW 3 series, that covers a lot of territory, but even in your example: Infiniti doesn't have better power/weight ratio, but with the right gearing, that could be negligible. The Infiniti's better braking from 60 mph, well if you are 115 feet behind someone else @ 60 mph the Infiniti stops without smashing it's front end in and the other cars rear end as well. The BMW is an incident that results in heavy body damage. That would be another fact because the BMW will hit the other car at 115 feet and not stop on it's own until it travels 120 feet and at 3500 lbs, that is a very painful and expensive lesson to learn. For example, let's say you're about 200 lbs and standing still, let a 200 lb man run into you for 5 feet before stopping @ 3-5 mph, now multiply that by 17 in terms of body weight and now you have a good idea of what the force/inertia behind that BMW is going to do to you just the same if you're sitting in the other car. Yeah, cars are made to absorb impact, so the front end of the BMW is going to crumple like a grown man into the fetal position. A few year's back, a Mercedes Benz (MB) rear ended my truck, my truck sustained minimal damages as the MB crumpled all the way back to the timing chain/belt cover. It was actually quite funny, he hit my towing package on a 3,000 pound Ford Ranger. The MB damaged it's bumper, AC and radiator, hood, both fenders, it's lighting components and spilled out it's vital fluids (everything but the motor oil and transmission fluid). My truck, well, the bumper is torqued a quarter of an inch downward on one end and still runs to this day with no problems. The MB was towed away on a flatbed hauler. As for .9 vs .89, when the wheels come loose from the pavement, the BMW spins out, the Infiniti probably holds traction only momentarily longer, but it does hold traction. So 2 out of 3 categories the BMW is inferior to an Infiniti. You should have your answer, but to clarify it for you, yes, the Infiniti outhandles the BMW.

"If you haven't driven a car you are in no position to make a 'definitive' statements about it. Period. In the same way one (or anyone with any sense) wouldn't say which was a better sounding HIFI stereo based purely on technical specs without hearing it, it would be nonsensical. Anyone one buys a HIFI based on how it sounds and the two are NOT the same."

Really, Is that so ? I guess it's the same as when someone tells me the score and relays the stats of the Super Bowl, that just because I didn't play or even watch the game, who the better team was ?

"I've no interest in a pissing contest with you (or anyone) about car handling, partly because I couldn't care less but mostly because when you things like:"

I like to be fair and give credit where it's due. With the Infiniti, the engineers put together a better braking system and handling package in regards to the weight characteristics and dimensions of their car, kudos to them for it. BMW on the other hand chose to put more engine in theirs. The sum of the parts, the Infiniti is a slightly better vehicle. The numbers simply don't lie, just like the stats of the Super Bowl won't either.

And here is more on BMW mythology:

"http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=119511/pageNumber=1"

"Sure it's fast, but can it corner?
Any sixth-grader could've guessed the 604-hp SL would be quicker than the 500-hp M6, but even we didn't see what was coming next."

"With its meaty Bridgestone tires, the SL stopped from 60 mph in a mere 110 feet and orbited the skid pad at 0.89 g. What's more, the SL blitzed the slalom course at a sports-carlike 67.4 mph, no doubt aided by its mechanical limited-slip differential.

Yet the SL doesn't feel sporting, as the combination of wooden steering feel, artificial body motions (or lack thereof) and its numb electrohydraulic brakes don't make for a rewarding experience. Even so, the SL65 does feel well-mannered and even docile on public roads.

The M6 convertible achieved a slightly slower but more enthralling 67.1-mph run through the slalom."

Just so you don't think I'm being prejudiced against German cars, that's a MB vs BMW. The MB outhandles the BMW too. I don't know how someone could say that a slower and thus longer duration for a slalom run time is more enthralling though ? Unless having to pay attention to the curves/cones for longer is more enthralling ? :rolleyes: :confused:
 

Male Bonding etc

Experimental Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Posts
920
Media
0
Likes
17
Points
163
Location
Southwest USA
Sexuality
69% Straight, 31% Gay
Gender
Male
I want a sexy yet responsible car, but it's not happening the way I wanted, so I went ahead and indulged in a BMW Z4 anyway. The mileage sucks. But it looks great, handles superbly. Probably should have looked into a hybrid, but...nah!
Precisely the mentality that promotes SOME of the problems we have. "Hey, it's just me and one little car. How much damage can THAT do?" [Multiply that times however many million car owners are driving gas guzzlers.]
"I have the money, and I want it." [Money=status=attention from chicks/guys=cheap way to impress without much real substance]
"It's just so damn sexy looking." [Remember the sexy cowboy smoking the cigarette... before he died of lung cancer?]
"Gotta support the auto makers." [Hey, they are pretty good at figuring out... sometimes... what the market wants. They can gear up if they see the trend has changed.]
"I don't give a flyin' fuck about what anyone else thinks. I deserve my ____!" [Reminds me of the time I saw two women in a Rolls Royce that was broken down on the side of the highway, and no one was stopping to help them.]
 

viking1

Experimental Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Posts
4,600
Media
0
Likes
23
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
I don't drive my hybrid in the mountains, but most people with 4WD and other gas consuming options never do either. I've driven over 100,000 miles in mine and have had NO problems with the battery or anything mechanical... really no problems to speak of, period.

Obviously, people who haul things and live in mountainous areas, can't use most of the hybrids currently available. However, most of us live where we can make some better choices regarding transportation, and the problems we face nationally and internationally really CAN start with our own willingness to make smart choices.

Believe me, I drool over gas guzzling "muscle" cars just as much as the next guy, but (witness the Tesla mentioned previously) more can be done to make the cars both sexy and responsible.

Look what that Tesla costs. I can't pay $90,000 for a car. That would not pay back if cost nothing to operate.

I didn't mean hybrids have a lot of problems. I still say they are an unkown
due to the short time they have been out. When you trade or sell one who determines how much battery life is left? They still cost too much more
than a conventional for me to get it back with my type of driving. I do drive in the mountains and 4wd is very useful here in bad winter weather.

I will only buy something if it will pay back for me. I only recently switched to compact flourescent lamps. They used to cost too much to get any return. Now the price has dropped and with the energy savings an long life span they are now worth it. Same way with a heat pump. Until oil got
to the 2-3 dollar per gallon range that didn't pan out either. I didn't install a heat pump until after oil passed the $2 mark. Now electric power is going up and if oil drops I'll run the oil furnace again if it's cheaper.

I just bought a new Toyota Tacoma pickup. I got the 4 cylinder, 2wd, reg
cab. It is auto trans. After driving heavy trucks at work I can't drive a standard in these small vehicles. I made that mistake once already.
Given the price (all cars that I can fit comfortably in were much higer), the ease of getting in and out (it's at the natural height for me and that's easy on my bad back) the utility (it's small but will tow or haul somethings), I just could not find anything better for me. Other than hybrid (which won't help much under my driving comditions) a mid sized car won't get much better mileage. I had my mind set on a small car but I couldn't be comfortable in it so that was that. It's all a cat mouse political game anyway. They could make mid size car at reasonble price that would get 40 mpg. However, they won't just yet so I got what did the job for me.
I still have my Tundra 4wd, but it won't nearly as much use now. I would much rather drive this little truck. It's so much better on crooked back roads and for parking when I do got to town shopping or vist my mother in the nursing home. When winter comes again I will have the 4x4 when I need it in the Tundra. My old '86 Chrysler was worn out and I had to do something. I would gladly be more environmentally responsible, but it's going to have to be affordable and non burdensome to me. When they finally get it to that point then all good and well. That's a ways off, though.
 

headbang8

Admired Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Posts
1,618
Media
12
Likes
809
Points
333
Location
Munich (Bavaria, Germany)
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
Lex, I'd say it the other way around re: Mazdas. The Ford Fusion and most recent new Volvo are based on the Mazda6 platform, according to a recent Car and Driver. In-house Ford engineers did NOT create the Mazda6 platform. [And I only have a 5-minute commute.]
True, NC. The Mazda design-wonks in Hiroshima have always been a bit more sporting-minded than the cautious types at Nissan or the serious young insects in Nagoya who work for Toyota. Honda needs to get its groove back, and Subaru is a bit tinny IMHO. If I were going to buy a Japanese car, I'd get a Mazda.

The Mazda fellows design their cars with the European market in mind--and thay've been incredibly disappointed that the Euro car buying public doesn't put them in the same league as their own. Too many memories of workaday 323s, I guess.

The Mazda 6 is a truly great car. The so-called Miller Cycle engine is amongst the smoothest and quietest of any six. It DOES compete with mid-sized BMWs and Benzes. I've driven it on several occasions, and it has much the same taut handling as a classic European sporting sedan, without the feeling of weight in an overengineered German car like a BMW.

(I've owned two 3-Series, and I loved them both, but for a light car, they're awfully heavy. Many interpret that as a good thing; they like the feeling of solidity and the roadholding that may follow. But it annoyed me that a small heavy car with a light engine had to be revved through the gears so much. I bought manuals; automatics didn't cut it, rev-wise.)

The Mazda 3? Doubtless, a great choice. But I tend to shy away from large 4-cylinder engines. A BMW engineer once told me that any 4-pot above two litres needs cylinders too large to operate without unacceptable levels of vibration. That's why the BMW 318i was a four, and the 320i was a six. And after driving several large fours (the Mitsubishi Diamante has a 2.6 litre four, and I would get them as a rental quite frequently) I tend to agree.

NIC160IQ has again, shown his superior brainpower when he bought his dream-car as a late-model used one. Let some other jerk cop the depreciation. IN the USA, the popularity of leasing cars and our obsession with trading them in means there's a good stock of 12-18 month-old cars on the market, many with new-car warranty.

Have you thought of a late model used RX8? Gorgeous cars, and you could probably get one for the same price as a tricked-up M6.

HB8

P.S. I rented a car the other day, and got a Hyundai Sonata. I was pleasantly surprised.
 

headbang8

Admired Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Posts
1,618
Media
12
Likes
809
Points
333
Location
Munich (Bavaria, Germany)
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
I bought used because what I wanted new was way out of my price range. I also think this is a good way to go. You can get a real bargain... just do your homework.
By the way, NIC160, what have you done with the Viper now that you're teaching in Korea? Have you sold it?
 

transformer_99

Experimental Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Posts
2,429
Media
0
Likes
9
Points
183
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
A BMW engineer once told me that any 4-pot above two litres needs cylinders too large to operate without unacceptable levels of vibration.

Was that BMW's position or just that one engineer's, who happened to work for BMW ? There are just too many success stories over the span of a few decades that simply refute that. Toyota put 2.2 and 2.4 L engines in their Celica and the 22R engine was simply bulletproof. Lotus had a 2.2 L 4 cylinder that humiliated 8 cylinder cars in an Esprit Turbo. Mitsubishi put a 2.6 L in a Starion and Chrysler rebadged them as Conquests throughout the 80's. Nissan had 2.4 L 4 cylinder engines as well. And the 2.5 L Altima is just such a lousy car because it has that 4 cylinder engine in it ? The Frontier and Tacoma, 4 cylinder trucks they suck too ? Mercedes Benz even uses/used a 2.2/2.3 L 4 cylinder in it's entry level Benz. I understand BMW might make decisions on their 4, 6 and 8 cylinder models. They make a fine car, but their decisions don't reflect what the rest of the global industry obviously is doing with > 2L 4 cylinder engines. Granted they won't match a 6 cylinder for smoothness, but that even holds true when you go small with a 6 cylinder like Mazda did with a 1.8L 6 cylinder back in the 90's. with the MX3.

"http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/26/mercedes-unveils-four-cylinder-vision-c220-bluetec/"
 
  • Like
Reactions: headbang8

dong20

Sexy Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
0
Likes
28
Points
183
Location
The grey country
Sexuality
No Response
"Errr, no I specified the BMW330i, I know this because I wrote :"

Agreed, Mercurialbliss only said new BMW 3 series, that covers a lot of territory, but even in your example: Infiniti doesn't have better power/weight ratio, but with the right gearing, that could be negligible.

Errr, no:

For example, an '06 Infiniti M45 (basically a Nissan Gloria) a car with better power/weight ratio of 11.32 lbs/HP than an '06 BMW330i (13.4 lbs/HP).

The Infiniti's better braking from 60 mph, well if you are 115 feet behind someone else @ 60 mph the Infiniti stops without smashing it's front end in and the other cars rear end as well. The BMW is an incident that results in heavy body damage. ......

Well, assuming the car in front cannot outbrake the infiniti.

So 2 out of 3 categories the BMW is inferior to an Infiniti. You should have your answer, but to clarify it for you, yes, the Infiniti outhandles the BMW.

Perhaps, on paper at the extremes of the envelope in the hands of a professional driver, but if you're seriously suggesting that in the hands of an average driver on average roads it would do so I'll lay odds you would be proven wrong. That's all myself (MB and 350Z if I understood correctly) have been saying. You chose to make more of it.

Really, Is that so ? I guess it's the same as when someone tells me the score and relays the stats of the Super Bowl, that just because I didn't play or even watch the game, who the better team was ?

Yes, because all one can infer about a game from the score is the result, nothing about the actual event. The same for a track result.

And here is more on BMW mythology:

Comparison Test: 2007 BMW M6 Convertible vs. 2007 Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG

.....

Just so you don't think I'm being prejudiced against German cars, that's a MB vs BMW. The MB outhandles the BMW too. I don't know how someone could say that a slower and thus longer duration for a slalom run time is more enthralling though ? Unless having to pay attention to the curves/cones for longer is more enthralling ? :rolleyes: :confused:

Actually I do think you have an issue about it but like I say I could care less.

I didn't say BMWs were the best handling cars merely that they handled well, better than a great many cars on the road. I and the others who posted comments agreeing speak from experience. You speak from theory and numbers so pardon me when I place less credence on your views.

Anyway, did the OP get his car?
 

hungbiguyuk

Experimental Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Posts
59
Media
1
Likes
5
Points
153
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
If you have to have one of those then I would suggest the MazdaSpeed6...

However have you tried the RX8 - far more fun and much more refined than the 6?

I have the RX8 230bph (in UK here) and love it to bits. Have had the Mazdaspeed6 when the RX8 has been in for servicing or body kit to be fitted and it is far more aggressive and there is a tinge of 'saloon with a few bolt ons' feel about it. Speedy I have to say but doesn't handle quite anything like the RX8.

That's my view but you pays your money and you makes your choice...

Whatever you choose, you can't go wrong with a Mazda... recently been awarded top for reliability here in the UK ahead of Toyota.

Yes, Mazda are owned by Ford but there is nothing Ford about them, i can assure you.

Best of Luck and enjoy your choice!!!
 

transformer_99

Experimental Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Posts
2,429
Media
0
Likes
9
Points
183
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Errr, no:

For example, an '06 Infiniti M45 (basically a Nissan Gloria) a car with better power/weight ratio of 11.32 lbs/HP than an '06 BMW330i (13.4 lbs/HP).

Mis-read that, sorry.

Well, assuming the car in front cannot outbrake the infiniti.

Well, put the BMW in front, you won't hit it with the Infiniti, vice versa and it's a wreck.

Perhaps, on paper at the extremes of the envelope in the hands of a professional driver, but if you're seriously suggesting that in the hands of an average driver on average roads it would do so I'll lay odds you would be proven wrong. That's all myself (MB and 350Z if I understood correctly) have been saying. You chose to make more of it.

The extremes are what the vehicles are capable of, somewhere in between it is dependent upon what the driver is capable of, regardless of whether they are a novice or professional. A poorly skilled driver will suck with either vehicle, just as the professional got optimal performance with either. I don't think you like the fact that there is no discernable difference in many aspects of the results of that road test. Oh, and the roads, ok, take these two vehicles off a test track and put them on the same road, what's any different ? The two cars are capable of what they are, changing the scenery doesn't change that fact when they both go to the same road.

Yes, because all one can infer about a game from the score is the result, nothing about the actual event. The same for a track result.

What else would you need to know, in football, there are rules, penalties, injuries and turnovers that can influence the outcome and the better team can find a way to lose. But by and large the better team does win, just look at the stats for the Colts-Bears game. The better team simply won that game. Now in this road test, the track is the same, and the rules of the game are based on physics that favor neither vehicle, they simply are the laws of nature and they apply whether it's a Hyundai or Mercedes Benz, or in this case an Infiniti or BMW. The categories are the same and they were measured fairly and equally. The results, all conditions being equal, devoid of any favoritism, the Infiniti scored better.

Actually I do think you have an issue about it but like I say I could care less.

I didn't say BMWs were the best handling cars merely that they handled well, better than a great many cars on the road. I and the others who posted comments agreeing speak from experience. You speak from theory and numbers so pardon me when I place less credence on your views.

And I agree with that, but by the samer token I proved that there are many that do what a BMW does just the same and that there are those that easily exceed it's capabilities. As for speaking from theory, there is no theory, the two cars were scrutinized and thoroughly tested. Do you actually think that anything less than the extremes of what these vehicles performed at, that the Infiniti somehow gets unacceptably worse when less is demanded of it and somehow when identical expectations of the BMW are demanded that somehow it takes a turn slower, so much better than the Infiniti. That's like saying the BMW is better than the Infiniti @ a complete standstill or at the speed limit. The extremes of what these vehicles do is the ultimate judgement. That's the whole point of one being better than the other, to do something better than the other. I simply stated the superior handling of a BMW was mythical, there's just too much factual evidence that supports my statement, a g-force is a g-force on the planet earth, gravity is a constant.

"http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/CLass/newtlaws/u2l2b.html#grav"
 

woah

Just Browsing
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Posts
8
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
146
Ok. So your choices are between the mazdaspeed 3 and mazdaspeed 6 huh.

I've driven both and well it depends on your personal preference. The mazdaspeed 3 is lighter than the 6, so it feels a bit nimbler. In metropolitan areas, you might find this car better suited for a quick zip down a back alley or tight road. The 6 on the other hand is more of a sledge hammer. With 270hp being put down at all four corners, you do get loads of grip upon launch and cornering.

Gas mileage all depends on how heavy your right foot is. Since both of these cars have a turbo, at full boost, you'll be sucking down fuel pretty quickly.

I think it is obvious which car has more room. The specs of the mazdaspeed 6 do however put it in the range of other 4 door turbo charged go fast cars also that carry a bit more punch and sport. The Mitsubishi Evolution MR and the Subaru Impreza WRX STi. If your interested in either of those also, then I might have just made your choices a bit harder.

Ive driven all those cars above on the street, highway, and track so I am more than happy to give my 2 cents in for more cars if you like.