What constitutes life ?

[deleted213967]

Who told you that Christians don't believe in life on other planets? I was flipping channels and TBN had space alien characters talking to kids. It's a regular Saturday morning program. Also, nothing in the Bible says there isn't life on another planet or solar system.

Where do peeps get some of this stuff?

You are right on the money.

"The" Bible's mutliple versions and translations do not even address life in Australia, Antarctica or for that matter "Smooth Body, USA".

 

[psidom]

Oh yeah, and also because they were nuttier than fruitcakes.

oh yeah...they said the same about TESLA!

then ripped everyone one of his IDEAS to profit from the sheep.(public)
they are even using his ideas to this day look up HAARP project.
then they,deemed him crazy and he dies without any real recognition
because everyone believes and trusts the machine(gov) more than the man.

yes some of wilhelms ideas are wacky(so was einsteins,newtons,christopher columbus)
reich points out everything that lacks evidence in his work,with no shame.
he studied under Freud and wound up realising freud's ideas
were going to hurt mankind and began studying orgone.

meanwhile freuds family gets head in charge of propaganda and advertising
spreading the sexual repression and irrational insecurities creating a
cesspool of marketing capabilities.
reaching the minds of the public via Broadcast....Teslas invention.

no wonder people think he is nuts...they are clueless to everything
real.

 

[Irish]

Intriguing perspective...and quite "brilliant" too.

I would have thought that because the atheist's "afterlife" is devoid of the proverbial 70 (female of course :frown1 virgins and fountains of milk and honey (I am mildly lactose-intolerant anyway), the said atheist would make the most out of his / her earthly life...

What amount of flattery or of free Irish beer would convince you?

Thanks, Domisoldo, but I'm more of a whiskey man, myself.

Insofar as my lack of belief in an afterlife and Nihilistic views... I'm pretty sure they don't prevent me from enjoying my life. Just because life doesn't seem "important" or doesn't carry any particular meaning to it doesn't mean fun isn't fun. I'm no hedonist, but I like having a good time.

Anyway, they can keep the virgins, a woman with some experience is more fun.

I need to look into these milk and honey fountains, though...

 

[JustAsking]

"You’re not a person ’till you’re in my phone book." -Bill Hicks

Doesn't quite cover everything, but it's a good start.

Yeah, we're just a collection of molecules (I wouldn't apply the term 'atoms' to people as we aren't made of a single type of atom), just like your desk and the cat's box. What I would say makes us alive has nothing to do with consciousness (or a conscience) or our ability to think, it's just the fact that we actively grow and convert energies. Machines that build themselves would fall into this category, so let's add organic to the mix.

If you can classify something as an organism, that's enough for me to say it's alive - but not that it has rights, whole different issue I don't want to derail this thread with.

An organism that requires input to sustain itself by converting said input to energy I would consider "alive." I would probably take issue with anything that doesn't fit that schema.

The bigger problem, for me, isn't defining life, but assigning importance to it. Relatively speaking, we're pretty drastically outnumbered by the non-living entities of our universe. I don't feel this makes us special, just anomalous. An amusing little blip on the record books, but only because we're the ones keeping records, and only because we're self important enough to find ourselves amusing. :\

Don't get me wrong, I still think I'm the greatest thing since the EM Spectrum, but... life just doesn't seem like anything all that important in the grand scheme of things.

And people wonder how Nihilism and atheism gain so much popularity.

Entertaining, witty, realistic, and brilliantly profound at the same time. Irish, please stick around.

 

[JustAsking]

oh yeah...they said the same about TESLA!

then ripped everyone one of his IDEAS to profit from the sheep.(public)
they are even using his ideas to this day look up HAARP project.
then they,deemed him crazy and he dies without any real recognition
because everyone believes and trusts the machine(gov) more than the man.

yes some of wilhelms ideas are wacky(so was einsteins,newtons,christopher columbus)
reich points out everything that lacks evidence in his work,with no shame.
he studied under Freud and wound up realising freud's ideas
were going to hurt mankind and began studying orgone.

meanwhile freuds family gets head in charge of propaganda and advertising
spreading the sexual repression and irrational insecurities creating a
cesspool of marketing capabilities.
reaching the minds of the public via Broadcast....Teslas invention.

no wonder people think he is nuts...they are clueless to everything
real.

Sure, I can buy that, but the false premise here is that everyone's radical new idea is valid merely because it is radical or novel.

In fact, no one laughed at Tesla, no one laughed at Einstein, and no one laughed at Newton except ignorant people outside the scientific process. All of the people you mentioned backed up their radical new ideas with rigorous formalisms that had massive powers of prediction, or they demonstrated the ramifications of their ideas through practical prototypes with obvious commercial value.

This is why they were accepted so fast or so readily "ripped off" is because what they proposed actually worked.

No one laughed at Newton when he managed to create one of the most remarkable foundational formulations of almost everything that was known in physics at the time. Newton's Principia Mathematica was a synthesis of all that was known at the time about motion and energy. It was a strict formulation that could be applied to every object in the universe in a way that made powerful predictions about their motion. It immediately brought under one simple law the physics of a falling apple and the elliptical orbits of galaxies. Even though it has been supplanted by more powerful modern physics, we still use Newtonian Mechanics to put people on the moon some 400 years later. No one laughed at Newton then (he was knighted for his work and put in charge of the Royal Mint), and no one is laughing now.

2) Reich's Orgone Energy theory is just simple fancy that makes no actionable predictions and has been practically applied to absolutely nothing.

The difference between Teslas invention of the AC electric motor and Reich's Orgone Energy is:

1) The AC electric motor was based on sound application of Maxwell's Equations and converted electricity into mechanical energy with close to 100% efficiency. Since only AC was practical to transmit over long distances by power lines, Tesla's invention made electric motors thousands of times more practical than when using DC. George Westinghouse did not laugh at Tesla, he bankrolled Tesla to the tune of millions of dollars and built a multinational company out of the enormous commercial value of Tesla's invention. This and Tesla's other achievements rocketed him to almost "rock star" status early in the 20th century. He was not considered some nut with a wacky theory. He was one of the first people to gain celebrity from scientific and technical achievement. Not to mention the fact that he was awarded the Nobel Prize for his work.

2) No one has bankrolled Willhelm Reich's Orgone Energy Accumulators because they are exactly worthless. How do I know they are worthless? Because people will bankroll anything that has demonstrated value as well as things that only seem to have demonstrated value.

In the case of Einstein, the difference is:

1) No one laughed at Einstein because with a single short paper, Einstein was able to demonstrate a theoretical solution to one of the most outstanding deficiencies in classical physics, which was the fact that the speed of light was invariant between two inertial reference frames. This was huge in that two of the foundational elements of all of classical physics were incompatible with each other.

But not only did he solve the problem theoretically, like any real scientific theory, Einsteins theory of relativity came complete with actionable predictive power. In other words the theory showed how to reconcile the existing phenomena, and it also asserted that if the theory were true, you will expect to observe certain phenomema that was not yet observable. Then when the conditions were right and the instrumentation technology was mature enough, it was found that the predictions from Einsteins theory were exactly right.

Today there are plenty of things even in relatively mundane technology that must take into account relativity.

Einstein's contribution to science from only that one paper catapulted him from being an obscure clerk at the Swiss Patent Office to one of the foremost scientists of his time. His success in toppling some 350 years of classical physics also made him a kind of popular celebrity in his time. Where Tesla's fame came from the commercial success of his ideas, Einstein's came from the sheer power of his revolutinary theories even in advance of their practical applicatin This is not laughter, this is recognition of genius. Oh, and Einstein was also awarded the Nobel Prize.

2) Reich's theory of Orgone Energy makes no actionable predictions. It only postulates the existence of some kind of life force energy in a fanciful manner. It is indistinguishable from someone postulating the existence of leprechauns.

The difference between Columbus and Wilhelm Reich is as follows:

1) Columbus was an opportunist and took advantage of the growing imperialism and economic competition between development nation states seeking wealth from new trade routes. In a sense what he shared with Reich was that he was a great con-man. He convinced the eager Queen Isabella that the Earth was much smaller than it really was and that being so, it would be more practical to sail westward to establish a lucrative trade route to India rather than using the expensive overland route.

Not only was Columbus wrong about the size of the Earth (most of science already knew this, but Isabella didn't) but he was also wrong about being able to find India. The only reason why we know his name today is that he got lucky and actually made it to the West Indies (so named "Indies" because he thought he found India).

2) The difference between Columbus's failed hypothesis is that he got lucky and found something else valuable, whereeas Wilhelm Reich was not lucky when discovered absolutely nothing useful while dreaming up his fanciful Orgone Energy.

I could go on, but instead let me summarize by saying that the only people on your list who were laughed at was Wilhelm Reich, and no one sees any reason to stop laughing.

 

[psidom]

Yes they did laugh at tesla....they were scared of him.
he was the MAD scientist...just like they made wilhelm out to be.
they killed cats to demonstrate how much of a mad man he was
and his ideas.

the reason wilhelm reich was shunned was because of his indifference
with freud whose neice was head of the board of psychology,
she had kicked him out...hence he lost ALL funding to prove his theory.

she did this because he was a threat to the freudian society that was built
and going to help bring a submissive consumer public.
what we have today.

everyone laughed at newton when he was studying alchemy
and comparing it to his theories on physics,
he was madly in love with a dead science...because it wasn't and still
isn't dead.

there are anomalies in every theory once it is taken
to a sub-granular level.
that is why we as doctors and scientists get grants to further
our discoveries,no grant,no proof.

the government knows this is how it works,they made it this way.
if the nations understood orgone,chi,prana,lifeforce, they would
have a nation of FREE people.
not addicted to the popular ideals....but to LOVE and truth.
love and truth are not very marketable.

Rupert Sheldrake was laughed at as well and also
kicked out for his "outlandish" ideas about flower patterns
and morphic resonance within schools of fish and birds.

if it threatens the "bubble" ideals of this very institutionalized
world and mindset that is seen as "safe" and "sound"
and proves it to be "a false sense of security"
it will perish by law.

 

[JustAsking]

Yes they did laugh at tesla....they were scared of him.
he was the MAD scientist...just like they made wilhelm out to be.
they killed cats to demonstrate how much of a mad man he was
and his ideas.

I submit to you the following additional pieces of evidence regarding how the scientific world and the public regarded Tesla:

1) Tesla astonished the world by demonstrating the wonders of alternating current electricity at the World Columbian Exposition in Chicago in 1893. Alternating current became standard power in the 20th Century. This accomplishment changed the world. He designed the first hydroelectric powerplant in Niagara Falls in 1895, which was the final victory of alternating current. The achievement was covered widely in the world press, and Tesla was praised as a hero world wide. King Nikola of Montenegro conferred upon him the Order of Danilo.


2) In 1894, he was given honorary doctoral degrees by Columbia and Yale University and the Elliot Cresson medal by the Franklin Institute. In 1934, the city of Philadelphia awarded him the John Scott medal for his polyphase power system. He was an honorary member of the National Electric Light Association and a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. On one occasion, he turned down an invitation from Kaiser Wilhelm II to come to Germany to demonstrate his experiments and to receive a high decoration.


3) The February 1893 issue of Century Magazine published Tesla's principles of telegraphy without wires, popularizing his well attended lectures at the Franklin Institute.


4) Tesla corresponded with some of the world's most famous scientists both directly and through letters published in professional scientific journals. Here is an example of his serious correspondance with JJ Thompson, the Nobel Laureate British scientist who discovered the electron. (look to the end of the Tesla's article in that journal for the correspondence). Notice that Thompson is debating issues with Tesla from the point of view of a highly respected colleague. Thompson is not laughing at Tesla.


4) In 1896, the Electrical Review published Xrays of a man made by Tesla, with xray tubes of his own design. This appeared about the same time Roentgen was publising his findings. Roentgen is credited with this invention which is not a problem because his work slightly preceded Tesla. However, upon seeing Tesla's articles, Roentgen wrote him congratulatory letters applauding the originality of Tesla's work.


5) On his 75th birthday in 1913, Tesla appeared on the cover of Time Magazine. On this occasion, he received congratulatory letters from more than 70 pioneers inscience and engineering including Albert Einstein (scroll down to find it) and Mark Twain. These letters wore mounted and presented to Tesla in the form of a testimonial volume.


6) In his speech presenting Tesla with the Edison Medal, Vice President Behrend of the Institute of Electrical Engineers (now known as the IEEE) said, 'Were we to seize and eliminate from our industrial world the result of Mr. Tesla's work, the wheels of industry would cease to turn, our electric cars and trains would stop, our towns would be dark and our mills would be idle and dead. His name marks an epoch in the advance of electrical science."

Mr. Behrend ended his speech with a paraphrase of Alexander Pope's lines regarding Newton: "Nature and nature's laws lay hid by night. "God said 'Let Tesla be' and all was light."


7) A state funeral was held for Tesla at St John the Divine Cathedral in NYC. Telegrams of condolence were recieved from such notables as Eleanor Roosevelt and USA VP Wallace. Over 2000 people attended including many Nobel Laureates.


8) Statements by other famous scientists and industrialists of the early 20th century"


W.W. Rice Jr.
"From his work followed the great work of Röntgen, who discovered the Röntgen rays, and all that work which has been carried on throughout the world in following years by J.J. Thomson and others, which has really led to the conception of modern physics. His work... antedated that of Marconi and formed the basis of wireless telegraphy... and so on throughout all branches of science and engineering we find... important evidence of what Tesla has contributed..."
I.C.M. Brentano
"There are three aspects of Tesla's work which particularly deserve our admiration: The importance of the achievements in themselves, as judged by their practical bearing; the logical clearness and purity of thought, with which the arguments are pursued and new results obtained; the vision and the inspiration, I should almost say the courage, of seeing remote things far ahead and so opening up new avenues to mankind."
E.F.W. Alexanderson
"In almost every step of progress in electrical power engineering, as well as in radio, we can trace the spark of thought back to Nikola Tesla. There are few indeed who in their lifetime see realization of such a far-flung imagination."
Louis Cohen
"In reading Tesla's work one is constantly struck by his many suggestions which have anticipated later developments in the radio art."
Gano Dunn "Prolific inventor, who solved the greatest problem in electrical engineering of his time, and gave to the world the polyphase motor and system of distribution, revolutionizing the power art and founding its phenomenal development. My contact as your assistant at the historic Columbia University high frequency lecture and afterward has left an indelible impression and inspiration which has influenced my life."

Notice the lack of laughter in these words form his contemporaries.

The reason why you are having trouble with these real facts about Tesla's acceptance is because Tesla has been made into a kind of mythological crackput science folk hero. By setting up Tesla as a kind of persecuted genius, crank science enthusiasts can defend their favorite crackpot by pointing to their ficticious story about how Tesla's ideas were also rejected. The formula is a kind of twisted transitive equation that goes like this: "They laughed at Tesla and he was right. They also are laughing at my favorite crackpot, so he too must be right."


What they conveniently leave out that the difference between their favorite crackpot and Nicola Tesla is a patent score of 700 to zero (Tesla 700, crackpot 0), and the fact that Tesla was an internationally acclaimed scientific genius, he was bankrolled by both George Westinghouse and JP Morgan, such that his inventions provide the very backbone of AC power generation, distribution, and usage by motors to this very day. Until Westinghouse got into financial trouble at one point, Tesla has a royalty of $2.50 on every horsepower of electrical power generation that went into commercial use ( vs one's favorite crackpots royalty on nonsense = $0).


The fictitious Tesla is the patron saint of crackpots, whereas the real Tesla is a celebrated and highly accomplished scientists whose work was recognized then and now as fundamental to the commercial application of electricity on a global scale.

 

[JustAsking]

the reason wilhelm reich was shunned was because of his indifference
with freud whose neice was head of the board of psychology,
she had kicked him out...hence he lost ALL funding to prove his theory.

This still doesn't explain why no one has ever found a shred of evidence or an ounce of scientific or commercial applicability for Orgonne Energy and his crackpot ideas on Bions. What prevents anyone from commercializing Orgone Energy Accumulators for personal health use? Reich's lack of acceptance by any scientific community in the early 20th century would not be an impediment for anyone wanting to commercialize anything that might even have a shred of ability to convince someone to buy it today. With our modern obsession for any health fad, you would think someone would capitalize on the beneficial effects on accumulated orgone energy if there were any.


she did this because he was a threat to the freudian society that was built
and going to help bring a submissive consumer public.
what we have today.

No, the public knows absolutely nothing about Wilhelm Reich as a rule. All it takes is a bunch of plywood and tinfoil to make an Orgone Energy Accumulator and prove its value. One doesn't have to invoke any kind of scientific bias conspiracy or funding conspiracy for this one. If it works, someone would try to make money on it. The public would not be dissuaded because Reich was a threat to Freudian society at the turn of the century.

everyone laughed at newton when he was studying alchemy
and comparing it to his theories on physics,
he was madly in love with a dead science...because it wasn't and still
isn't dead.

And yet it was Newton's hard science that went on to change the world and lay the foundation for 350 years of discovery. You probably cannot point to a single scientific or technical achievement that does not rely at least in part on Newton's hard science.

As for his interest in alchemy and his passion for looking for truth about the physical world within Biblical text, it produced exactly zilch at that time and in the ensuing 350 years it has continued to produce zilch. Here is a point to remember. If not one iota of evidence or usefulness comes out of 350 years of effort in a certain area, it is probably not a good career move to invest much more time in it. On the laws of motion in the universe, Newton was the authority for 350 years. On any of his crackpot ideas about alchemy? Lost to history because they had no value.

there are anomalies in every theory once it is taken
to a sub-granular level.
that is why we as doctors and scientists get grants to further
our discoveries,no grant,no proof.

No, you missed a step. To get a grant, you first gather evidence in order to support a theory in a preliminary fashion. Then you develop the theory such that it is rigorous enough to make bold predictions about natural phenomena. Then you apply for a grant to conduct the experiments that confirm if the predictive aspect of the theory is true. If the theory has no predictive value it is not a theory, it is idle speculation. If it does have predictive value, you or anyone else can confirm it through experimentation, publish the results, and have others independently verify it.

In summary, the formula is "no theory, no grant".

As such there is no actual scientific theory surrounding Orgone Energy that makes any kind of predictions regarding natural phenomenon. The same goes for 'bions'.


the government knows this is how it works,they made it this way.
if the nations understood orgone,chi,prana,lifeforce, they would
have a nation of FREE people.
not addicted to the popular ideals....but to LOVE and truth.
love and truth are not very marketable.

Yes, this is the mantra of crackpot science of all kinds. If it wasn't for large institutions full of people who are conspiring to squash an idea, the world would finally know the truth. In this case you cite the government. I ask you what prevents anyone from building an Orgone Accumulator and testing it out? It is an outhouse lined with tinfoil for God's sake. Is there some secret government agency who will send people around in black unmarked sedans to take you away if you build one?


Rupert Sheldrake was laughed at as well and also
kicked out for his "outlandish" ideas about flower patterns
and morphic resonance within schools of fish and birds.

Of course they laughed at it. It is completely unsupported by any evidence then and now. Morphic resonance was laughable then and it is laughable now. He proposed it about 100 years ago. Where's the beef?

if it threatens the "bubble" ideals of this very institutionalized
world and mindset that is seen as "safe" and "sound"
and proves it to be "a false sense of security"
it will perish by law.

Ah yes, those evil institutions who are full of people spending their waking hours worrying who might be out there building the next tinfoil lined outhouse and stumbling on their secret for world dominance.

Come on, man. Have you ever met a scientist? They are the crankiest most independent minded people you have ever met. They get up every morning wanting to get to work and either prove a completely new idea or at least prove the other guys in their field are wrong. If they are successful at that, they get a name for themselves and more grant money. If there were anything to suggest that bions were some universal force between life and non-life, you can bet your bippy that scientists around the world would be racing each other to establish the veracity of that and find a commerical application.

If they had any sense that there was validity in it, and they couldn't get a government grant, they would go find a source of funding in industry. A big pharmeceutical company would be a likely place. Those guys would love to discover something fundamentally new about biology and capitalize on it. And they could give a hoot about secret orgone swat teams in their black sedans.

In summary, what is more believable? That secret government institutions are suppressing any experimental work on orgone energy tinfoil outhouses, or that it is all a crock to begin with?

 

[Axcess]

Ah yes, those evil institutions who are full of people spending their waking hours worrying who might be out there building the next tinfoil lined outhouse and stumbling on their secret for world dominance.

Come on, man. Have you ever met a scientist? They are the crankiest most independent minded people you have ever met. They get up every morning wanting to get to work and either prove a completely new idea or at least prove the other guys in their field are wrong. If they are successful at that, they get a name for themselves and more grant money. If there were anything to suggest that bions were some universal force between life and non-life, you can bet your bippy that scientists around the world would be racing each other to establish the veracity of that and find a commerical application.

If they had any sense that there was validity in it, and they couldn't get a government grant, they would go find a source of funding in industry. A big pharmeceutical company would be a likely place. Those guys would love to discover something fundamentally new about biology and capitalize on it. And they could give a hoot about secret orgone swat teams in their black sedans.

In summary, what is more believable? That secret government institutions are suppressing any experimental work on orgone energy tinfoil outhouses, or that it is all a crock to begin with?

Very interesting stuff but please not blue letters . Those are hurting my eyes.

 

[psidom]

The fictitious Tesla is the patron saint of crackpots, whereas the real Tesla is a celebrated and highly accomplished scientists whose work was recognized then and now as fundamental to the commercial application of electricity on a global scale. [/QUOTE]

yes tesla was recognized;it couldn't be ignored because he had so many ideas that worked,
but when it came to his dream project everyone bailed on him
and westinghouse purposefully withdrew his funding
and tesla was out of support from anyone,
now isn't that kinda ODD considering how AMAZING he was???

this is where the consipracy theory comes in,
the marketing and the profit and the lonely dead genius.

 

[psidom]

Ah yes, those evil institutions who are full of people spending their waking hours worrying who might be out there building the next tinfoil lined outhouse and stumbling on their secret for world dominance.
yeah we call it FBI,CIA,KGB,WTO,NWO, and many more members
of the alpha bet.
Come on, man. Have you ever met a scientist? They are the crankiest most independent minded people you have ever met. They get up every morning wanting to get to work and either prove a completely new idea or at least prove the other guys in their field are wrong. If they are successful at that, they get a name for themselves and more grant money. If there were anything to suggest that bions were some universal force between life and non-life, you can bet your bippy that scientists around the world would be racing each other to establish the veracity of that and find a commerical application.

If they had any sense that there was validity in it, and they couldn't get a government grant, they would go find a source of funding in industry. A big pharmeceutical company would be a likely place. Those guys would love to discover something fundamentally new about biology and capitalize on it. And they could give a hoot about secret orgone swat teams in their black sedans.
there are a lot of thing out there that could have been profitable but were Squashed because certain bigwigs wanted to keep the money and power in their hands.
In summary, what is more believable? That secret government institutions are suppressing any experimental work on orgone energy tinfoil outhouses, or that it is all a crock to begin with?

in summary...the government likes people to be working
and paying taxes without revolutions.
running a marketing program that targets the
unconcious and subconcious and keeps the citizen
from being capable of critical thinking.
they are left with a putty brain for numb mindless jobs...that make taxdollar.

 

[deleted213967]

in summary...the government likes people to be working
and paying taxes without revolutions.
running a marketing program that targets the
unconcious and subconcious and keeps the citizen
from being capable of critical thinking.
they are left with a putty brain for numb mindless jobs...that make taxdollar.

You may want to pick up Remedial ECON007 at your friendly local community college.

The more "mindless" the job, the more prone it will be to automation, outsourcing, low wages and low or inexistent tax base.

 

[Drifterwood]

Living and existing are not synonymous. Parmenides' observation that what is, is, covers existence, whilst dieing would retrospectively suggest having lived.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Living and existing are not synonymous. Parmenides' observation that what is, is, covers existence, whilst dieing would retrospectively suggest having lived.

Well then define dying (hungover are we, love? :tongue, without reference to 'having lived' because then you're just getting circular without actually explaining anything.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

The secret to life is, "We don't swim in your toilet, please don't pee in our pool.". The end.

 

[killerb]

So I was enjoying the devil's plant (ya know) and I started thinking - what actually constitutes life ?

Let's go ahead and pass the definition of something that grows and "consciousness" or animate and inanimate.

All we are is an assembly of elements and compounds. Right? No element that makes our bodies are exclusive to entities that are considered to be alive.

So, what makes us different from the wooden desk my computer is sitting on? What makes us any different from the breeze blowing through my window or the box my cat shits in? Because, after all, we're just a bunch of atoms at most. Just atoms that disperse and meet around the same entity.

So is it this concept of consciousness that seperates us? Then what is consciousness? Simply being aware and/or being a part of some type of cause/effect event? If so, then something doesn't have to fit our definition of being alive to be conscious does it? By the definition of consciousness, isn't the simple act of action and reaction consciousness? Cell replication? The rain cycle?

Is it the ability to analyze and/or manipulate our surroundings? Again, that could be anything? And in such a respect, couldn't the sun be alive? It manipulates everything in teh solar system that it is the impetus of.

How are we able to confidently say what is conscious or aware and what is not? Maybe there are forms of communication and existence that humans cannot understand. Kind of like how a dog can hear a whistle that humans can't. Who are we to say that this thing thinks this way or taht thinks that way? We don't know. We're not in their heads. Now, we can say that we're so advanced and that's how, but the time between the dawn of modern humans and Tuesday August 19th, 2008 12:36 AM est is nothing but the blink of an eye. Not nearly enough "time" to become the omnipotent omniscient beings that we fancy ourselves to be.

Maybe there are "conscious" entities that occupy the parts of the electromagnetic spectrum that light doesn't occupy and we just can't see (or hear) them.

So, again I ask, what exactly qualifies something as life? This has been bothering me for a while.

Am I just being pretentious or is this a valid question.

Definately looking forward to what Jason_els', Phil Ayesho's and JustAsking's and Stapledshut's thoughts.......

damn that musta been some good sh*t...

 

[psidom]

You may want to pick up Remedial ECON007 at your friendly local community college.

The more "mindless" the job, the more prone it will be to automation, outsourcing, low wages and low or inexistent tax base.

your idea of mindless and my idea of mindless are 2 different things.
my father has worked at his job for 30 years,and is still there,
he pays taxes,and is also mindless.
he makes $75 dollars an hour...never been laid off.
all he does is watch TEEVEE.
my uncle is a truckdriver,mindless,but has a nice outdoor pool and home.
he watches tv when he comes home from work and knows every commercial...

my stepfather is the same with his plasma screen tv.
he owns a house with a marble countertop and 22 rooms.
he drives a new SUV every year,and is DUMB as a bag of rocks.
he cannot even spell,now i hear what your BOOK is claiming
but realise that book was made and went through a board
of education that approves and disapproves of it's contents.
(run by guess who?!)

i remember how my public school covered hitler,slavery,and the boston tea party.

not at all true or the full story.

 

[MidwestGal]

for me something that is compatible with life and have a reasonable level of meaningful life or recovery.

 

[Drifterwood]

Well then define dying (hungover are we, love? :tongue, without reference to 'having lived' because then you're just getting circular without actually explaining anything.

If the logic is good enough for God's existence, it's good enough for life :biggrin1:

You just worry about battery life.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

If the logic is good enough for God's existence, it's good enough for life :biggrin1:

Touché

You just worry about battery life.

I would - but when I tried inserting the batteries in what seemed to be the appropriate slot he got quite upset!

:no: