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Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Drifterwood, Apr 28, 2009.
Apparently my ancestors were jelqing.
I'm not a creationist so I'll tell you what was really going on 20,000 years ago and it's a lot more fascinating than the nothing creationists would have us believe:
Some humans were walking around the shores of Willandra Lakes, hunting kangaroo and emu, in central Australia...
The San people of South Africa were just beginning to form their civilization, which survives to this day along with their unique "click" language...
People using coracles were using crab traps for fishing off of Oronsay, Scotland....
The Great Barrier Reef was just starting to be formed...
The Frenchies, always big in art, were busy decorating their caves and left these images for us to enjoy....
While possibly a little too old by two millenia (carbon dating doesn't get very precise until a little after 20,000 years), The Venus of Willendorf was made by some industrious Austrians....
Perhaps most spectacularly, way aways off in Peru on the shores of Lake Titicaca, humans were building a pier that used stones of diorite, the hardest form of granite and barely softer than diamond, weighing over 1,000,000 pounds, and transported from a quarry hundreds of miles away and two miles lower in altitude. These stones were precisely and expertly carved into intricate locking patterns as they used no mortar...
Humans have been busy at work for a long time. 20,000 years ago was no different. In fact, it was much harder as the Ice Age was just beginning to end. It would take another 10,000 years for the ice to recede to the relatively stable ice sheets we have today.
20,000 years ago there were far more things out there to kill you too. Megaladon, the enormous cousin of the Great White, was still prowling the coasts, cave lions twice the size of modern lions considered humans to be on the menu in Europe, and in North America (if the most current age studies are correct), natives had to contend with being hunted by Titanis walleri, the last of the Terror Birds.
Do you think that those clever "Frenchies" made their way across the pack ice to N. America?
Well, to be honest, they weren't Gauls nor Celts nor anything else we associate with France. None of those people had arrived in France yet. If they were part of any culture still around these days, they'd have to be Basque as they're the oldest people in Europe, possibly the first. I haven't seen anything leading me to believe there are European artifacts from that age in North America, nor do I know of any genome study that indicates early Europeans were breeding with Indians. I have to say, no they likely did not.
What intrigues me more is the possibility that ancient Africans did make it across the Atlantic at its most narrow and where the currents would bring any West African vessel to the shores of South America in a fairly short time during some times of the year. The Olmec have some very intriguing stone carvings of people who look exactly African and appear to have possessed similar technologies for the time period. The Olmec may also have come into contact with the Chinese treasure junks as stones resembling those used for ballast in the junks have been found off the shores of Olmec territory and there is a Chinese map dated to 1421 voyages of Zheng He that accurately shows the New World. Yet again, the Olmec also have some intriguing stone images showing people with distinctly Asian facial features.
Beyond the Vikings (who really did discover North America) and, possibly, an Irish monk, I don't see any completely convincing evidence of European pre-Columbian exploration. Now I admit that there should not be evidence of nicotine in Egyptian mummies, peanuts in neolithic China, nor should Rosslyn Chapel and a whole host of temples in India have images of corn in them. I would absolutely not be surprised that the ancient world knew of, and traveled to, the New World. Any number of civilizations would have been easily capable of doing it.
Try this Jason. First Americans May Have Been European | LiveScience
I also want to add that while Graham Hancock's theory of a world-encompassing sophisticated civilization doesn't quite float in my book, I do think the ancients were, in some cases, far more advanced than we know. I tend to believe that if they were so remarkably capable in some areas, then they had to be in others too. For example, the most resilient artifacts we have from the ancient world are architectural and artistic. To accomplish some of the architectural designs requires equal sophistication in knowledge of geology, mathematics, hydraulics, and sometimes timekeeping, astronomy, metalurgy, thermodynamics, chemistry, and geometery. This is yet again one of the reasons why I really lament the loss of the library at Alexandria. I truly believe its loss pushed back civilization at least 1000 years if estimates of what it contained are correct.
I do believe Atlantis was the home of Minoan culture with the palace at Minos being a major outpost, not the home of the Minoans. There really was nothing like Minos before or, for quite some period of time, after. The Minoans were light years ahead of everyone else in the Mediterranean world except the Egyptians. While the Minoans may have been as sophisticated, they had a completely different cultural style that shows they weren't followers of Egypt. Their home was, I believe, Thera and, sadly, we all know how that turned out.
Intriguing but what of any DNA evidence or any other evidence to support it? Otherwise it may just be a simple case of coeval invention.
It seems to me, as the case here with the introduction of the chicken to the New World, that the Americas were something like the Gilligan's Island of the ancient world. It seems numerous peoples from both sides of the world occasionally bumped into the Americas, looked around, and left before Columbus managed to arrive and stay. The Indians likely met these people yet none of the visitors managed to think enough (or needed to) of the discovery to launch a major invasion the way Europeans did.
To be fair the Solutreans would have had very different technology to their European successors many thousands of years later. The evidence posited by the guy from the Smithsonian comes from the flint mapping styles of spear heards. These are as distinct as a modern language.
I'm afraid that I don't know enough about DNA to know whether traces have been found or could even be recognised.
or with your mom....
/sophomoric retort, asking.. what's the point?
If you are interested in evolution or genetics and have never seen The Journey of Man hosted by Spencer Wells (who is also working on the human "family tree" project) then you need to. He uses DNA evidence (comparing "markers" in the male Y-chromosome which is passed nearly identical from father to son) to trace the diaspora of early humans out of Africa and across the world. It's long but it's worth it (I say this to the girls I meet too but that's another story).
YouTube - Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey (Part 1 of 13)
As for the original question...I wouldn't try to think too hard about what creationists think. It will give you a headache and possibly an ulcer....
Here's an excerpt:
"Finally, this section is called "dragons" because the dinosaurs from before the Flood (a few are shown above) and legends of dragons from around the world from after the Flood complement each other in accounting for these large dangerous reptiles of old."
There has been good evidence extant for years that europeans were in North America thousands of years before today's Native Americans (Scientific American, September 2000). This includes both the archaeological evidence referred to above as well as certain DNA markers in the Algonkian Indian groups in eastern Canada and northeastern US. The theory, as presented in a Discovery Channel Canada documentary about two years ago, is that small groups followed the coastline of the pack ice across the Atlantic ca. 17,000 BP and thousands of years later were exterminated or assimilated by the incoming "Native Americans".
Incidentally, there is another theory - supported by the discovery of "Kennewick Man" in Washington state, and others - that the first humans across the Bering land bridge were not the ancestors of today's Indians, but were a group related to the Ainu in northern Japan.
This is a very politically incorrect topic in Canada now, and one risks being branded a racist by "First Nations" people for even discussing it. It does upset their whole applecart.
You all forgot to mention that at that specific point in time, the remaining
Caprica refugees from the Cylon attack finally made it to Earth. Settling in remote areas after crashing their ships into the Sun.
Creationists believe that nothing happened previous to 6,000 years ago.
Trying to bring out the IQ in people....
Barney the Dinosaur stepped on Alley Oop, and ruined his day.
By the way, I hear tell the "Creation Museum" is being audited for fraudently filed back taxes.
God was still trying to figure out how to flick on the light switch.
Its crazier than that. The 'curator', Kent Hovind, claimed he didn't need to pay any taxes on it because he was employed by God. He is currently in prison serving time for felony tax evasion.
It's kind of ironic considering they originally argued to have "creation science" taught i schools based upon the argument that it was a scientific theory with just as much validity as evolution. So I guess they figure that its a science when they need it to be to further their agenda but it's a religion, and therefore tax exempt, when Uncle Sam comes knocking...Must be another one of those "miracles"
I don't know what happened 20,000 thousand years ago. I don't even know if there was time 20,000 years ago. I don't know when time came into existence and neither does anyone else (You mean carbon dating isn't the know-all end-all of time gauging?) What appears to be the case is a far cry from what is the case. So I'm not bothered by it. It's mystery and I enjoy meditating in the mysteries of life.
Science can't even begin to explain the mysteries of the universe. Blackholes really make them nervous. Their very nature goes against the very basic laws of science.