I have to agree with pretty much all of what merc said (apart from the bits that are personal to herself and her situation - which obviously are not mine to agree or disagree with).
I spent a long time in a relationship with a man who thought / assumed he was giving me what I wanted a sacrifising his own needs for mine and that attitude went a long toward driving the wedge between us that killed the relationship. The man 'martyring' himself to the work place so the happy wife can stay home and bake cookies and finger paint with preschoolers is a popular image in the minds of men but you forget that the women who choose to stay home these days are also giving something up (usually to benefit the kid(s)) and while we enjoy our mother / homemaker roles we also know we are missing out on a lot of adult interaction that we also need. Many men don't get that. They see that we love the kids and I personally put a lot of effort into it - but I do miss the workplace, and having adult friends who don't discuss the latest bout of the measels and so on, so on. I don't want this to turn into a whole big debate about who has it worse and I was grateful to my husband for giving me the option of staying at home - but when he needed time out from work I worked from home and did the majority the homemaker / child caring jobs too - so it is not like I did not give back.
I'm also not saying Phil's wife feels the same as me - I have no idea. I am saying that a certain section of men seem to forget that life is not all Snowwhite playing housekeeping with her forest friends a la Disney for the stay at home mother.
Getting back to the balance of needs in a relationship - Phil, why was your wife's need/desire to have kids more important than your need/desire not to. If she truly loved you would she not have foregone motherhood to keep you happy?
You say
but do you not see situations where women could say that about their men? - I do, very many - about as many women feel that way as men do, in my experience. Why do think it is exclusive to (or in the majority for) men?
No - people just need to find someone who wants the same things or at least someone who is prepared to make some compromises and does so with eyes wide open. There is no point in me taking up with a man (or woman) who is going to be unhappy that I am a mother already, or someone who will accept that grudgingly, or even say there is no problem but feel put upon for having another man's offspring in his home. I need (and have) someone who is totally accepting of that and is capable of thinking ahead to what it means and who won't find himself made miserable by it.
All relationships, sexual and non-sexual work that way.
I spent a long time in a relationship with a man who thought / assumed he was giving me what I wanted a sacrifising his own needs for mine and that attitude went a long toward driving the wedge between us that killed the relationship. The man 'martyring' himself to the work place so the happy wife can stay home and bake cookies and finger paint with preschoolers is a popular image in the minds of men but you forget that the women who choose to stay home these days are also giving something up (usually to benefit the kid(s)) and while we enjoy our mother / homemaker roles we also know we are missing out on a lot of adult interaction that we also need. Many men don't get that. They see that we love the kids and I personally put a lot of effort into it - but I do miss the workplace, and having adult friends who don't discuss the latest bout of the measels and so on, so on. I don't want this to turn into a whole big debate about who has it worse and I was grateful to my husband for giving me the option of staying at home - but when he needed time out from work I worked from home and did the majority the homemaker / child caring jobs too - so it is not like I did not give back.
I'm also not saying Phil's wife feels the same as me - I have no idea. I am saying that a certain section of men seem to forget that life is not all Snowwhite playing housekeeping with her forest friends a la Disney for the stay at home mother.
Getting back to the balance of needs in a relationship - Phil, why was your wife's need/desire to have kids more important than your need/desire not to. If she truly loved you would she not have foregone motherhood to keep you happy?
You say
but do you not see situations where women could say that about their men? - I do, very many - about as many women feel that way as men do, in my experience. Why do think it is exclusive to (or in the majority for) men?
No - people just need to find someone who wants the same things or at least someone who is prepared to make some compromises and does so with eyes wide open. There is no point in me taking up with a man (or woman) who is going to be unhappy that I am a mother already, or someone who will accept that grudgingly, or even say there is no problem but feel put upon for having another man's offspring in his home. I need (and have) someone who is totally accepting of that and is capable of thinking ahead to what it means and who won't find himself made miserable by it.
All relationships, sexual and non-sexual work that way.
