What do you do with people like this?

[rob_just_rob]

Disclaimer: I know that this is a venting thread.

But it is disturbing to see people who are outraged by things the US administration has done to undermine due process (rendition, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, etc) turn around and say that this accused should be tortured, killed, or jailed without trial.

I thought that EVERYONE had a right to a fair trial and to be free from cruel and unusual punishment. Or are we saying this guy is much, much worse than potential terrorists...?

Anyways.

 

[B_Kshelby67]

Disclaimer: I know that this is a venting thread.

But it is disturbing to see people who are outraged by things the US administration has done to undermine due process (rendition, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, etc) turn around and say that this accused should be tortured, killed, or jailed without trial.

I thought that EVERYONE had a right to a fair trial and to be free from cruel and unusual punishment. Or are we saying this guy is much, much worse than potential terrorists...?

Anyways.

I agree. As much as it would be gratifying to see a person who had committed a terrible act be punished, at the same time, it really wouldn't.
It is sort of like when your parents told you smoking was bad and that you should never do it, then 10 minutes later you watch them light up. The excuse "Because I'm the parent, that's why" is confusing and doersn't teach any one anything. People follow by example right?

 

[Caelestis]

But it is disturbing to see people who are outraged by things the US administration has done to undermine due process (rendition, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, etc) turn around and say that this accused should be tortured, killed, or jailed without trial.

I thought that EVERYONE had a right to a fair trial and to be free from cruel and unusual punishment. Or are we saying this guy is much, much worse than potential terrorists...?

Yeah, I agree. I guess it's why we have our legal system the way it is: innocent until proven guilty etc, and why it's important to maintain that. Otherwise we'll be burning witches because they weigh the same as a duck (10 points for knowing the reference).

As someone wrote above (I can't be arsed to scroll up and name them): It'll be dealt with properly when emotions have died down a little.

Despite my above post, the most important historical quote to me is, and always will be: A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

 

[Gillette]

Disclaimer: I know that this is a venting thread.

But it is disturbing to see people who are outraged by things the US administration has done to undermine due process (rendition, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, etc) turn around and say that this accused should be tortured, killed, or jailed without trial.

I thought that EVERYONE had a right to a fair trial and to be free from cruel and unusual punishment. Or are we saying this guy is much, much worse than potential terrorists...?

Anyways.

You have an excellent point, Rob, we don't have enough information yet to play judge, jury and executioner.

I do find it difficult to believe that someone snuck in unnoticed to beat this child repeatedly over a course of 24hrs, however. Particularly when he confessed to beating the child himself.

 

[Ethyl]

Disclaimer: I know that this is a venting thread.

But it is disturbing to see people who are outraged by things the US administration has done to undermine due process (rendition, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, etc) turn around and say that this accused should be tortured, killed, or jailed without trial.

I thought that EVERYONE had a right to a fair trial and to be free from cruel and unusual punishment. Or are we saying this guy is much, much worse than potential terrorists...?

Anyways.

All have a right to a fair trial. But I think modern prisons are too cushy to be considered much punishment. Prison, by definition, is not supposed to be a pleasant experience.

 

[rob_just_rob]

I remember when Paul Bernardo was tried here - I was working for a downtown law firm and I took one of our interns to see a day of the proceedings (her idea )

I remember thinking that if my sister, or girlfriend, or cousin, or niece had been one of his victims, he would never have seen trial. Or been found. Found in one piece, anyway.

Take it from me: It's a nice fantasy, but it really isn't good for you to enjoy it too much.

All have a right to a fair trial. But I think modern prisons are too cushy to be considered much punishment. Prison, by definition, is not supposed to be a pleasant experience.

Neither are they by definition supposed to be unpleasant: prison - Definitions from Dictionary.com. I do see the word "correctional" in a couple of the cited definitions, though. I'm not sure that either of an overly pleasant, or overly unpleasant prison would be correctional.

And I've seen what the inside of a prison can look like. In most cases, rumours of their cushyness are exaggerated.

 

[snoozan]

From what I read, both parents were in Iraq and had been married but were separated.

What I wonder is, since mom obviously trusted the boyfriend to care for the children, was he mentally stable and otherwise nonthreatening before this happened?

 

[B_big dirigible]

People that prey on the innocent at this level are bypassing any access they would normally get to due process, in my opinion.

A major function of due process is the determination of what the real story is.

It would be a grim world indeed if defendants were condemned solely on the basis of reports from our frivolous and incompetent press.

 

[B_big dirigible]

But it is disturbing to see people who are outraged by things the US administration has done to undermine due process (rendition, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, etc) turn around and say that this accused should be tortured, killed, or jailed without trial.

Yep, exact same thing. Sure. The Patriot Act is indistinguishable from child murder. After all, as everyone on the planet knows, Bush=Hitler, so there you go. Hell, the Patriot Act is just as bad as putting puppies in blenders. And rendition! Oooh! Might just as well chop some kid's head off.

This is why these things go to jury trials, and not to monomaniacs like Madame Defarge, knitting down there in the front row.

 

[rob_just_rob]

Yep, exact same thing. Sure. The Patriot Act is indistinguishable from child murder. After all, as everyone on the planet knows, Bush=Hitler, so there you go. Hell, the Patriot Act is just as bad as putting puppies in blenders. And rendition! Oooh! Might just as well chop some kid's head off.

This is why these things go to jury trials, and not to monomaniacs like Madame Defarge, knitting down there in the front row.

Actually, I was comparing child murderers to terrorists, and musing on why people who were upset about the lack of due process in the war against terror are now hoping for a lack of due process in the prospective trial of the alleged (for now) child murderer.

But don't let me interrupt your rant.

 

[madame_zora]

He'll be fighting off prison rapists in the nocturnal savagery of a Chicago penitentiary. They'll have him stirring their Pruno and dropping it like it's lukewarm. Have him in their sites when they dim the lights. His screams will echo through the hallways.

Oh HELL yeah, I've been waiting for you to get your ass back here, what took you so long?:wink:

I'm very pro-death penalty in theory, I just don't trust the human beings who sit on judges chairs and in jury boxes to make decent legal and moral evaluations. IF one could prove conclusively that this man did in fact beat this kid for a whole 24 hour period, leading to his death, I'd have no problem at all pulling the switch. It's not like he's going to get better- come on.

Prison rape will do as a punishment, it's always nice when it goes to the deserving.

 

[Gillette]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob_just_rob http://www.lpsg.org/et-cetera-et-cetera/50984-what-do-you-do-people-2.html#post840832
But it is disturbing to see people who are outraged by things the US administration has done to undermine due process (rendition, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, etc) turn around and say that this accused should be tortured, killed, or jailed without trial.

Yep, exact same thing. Sure. The Patriot Act is indistinguishable from child murder. After all, as everyone on the planet knows, Bush=Hitler, so there you go. Hell, the Patriot Act is just as bad as putting puppies in blenders. And rendition! Oooh! Might just as well chop some kid's head off.

This is why these things go to jury trials, and not to monomaniacs like Madame Defarge, knitting down there in the front row.

I think the comparison he was making was between the patriot act and our assumption of his guilt. Your rebuttal is off point.

 

[jakeatolla]

Two of the best cases of jailhouse justice that come to mind are
Jeffrey Dalhmer who basically commited suicide by going into the general
population. And Joseph Fredericks who kidnaped raped and killed an
11 year old boy in Brampton Ontario. He was stabbed to death in prison
by a "lifer" using a pair of scissors.

 

[Big Dreamer]

A major function of due process is the determination of what the real story is.

It would be a grim world indeed if defendants were condemned solely on the basis of reports from our frivolous and incompetent press.

I chose my words poorly here. The "due process" I'm referring to is the after sentencing portion where tax dollars get thrown at keeping these murderous cretins in isolated protection.

 

[dong20]

Disclaimer: I know that this is a venting thread.

But it is disturbing to see people who are outraged by things the US administration has done to undermine due process (rendition, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, etc) turn around and say that this accused should be tortured, killed, or jailed without trial.

I thought that EVERYONE had a right to a fair trial and to be free from cruel and unusual punishment. Or are we saying this guy is much, much worse than potential terrorists...?

Anyways.

Similar Disclaimer.

I agree, and while I agree it's disturbing, it's hardly unexpected or even unusual here.

Imagine the benefits though, if everyone could be tried, convicted and best of all punished by LPSG members - (with the willing connivance of the media for unbiased, objective and trustworthy evidence of course, lest anyone jump to hasty conclusions) just think of the money saved for more guns, bigger cars and best of all more questionable foreign policy escapades.

Back on topic:

For criminals perperating such crimes death isn't a punishment so much as a free pass. Notions of Hell aside, the dead don't suffer.

It's hard to think of a punishment (other than the obvious, heartfelt, understandable ones already suggested) but, as those are not going to happen, at least as part of the process of criminal justice, does anyone have any practical suggestions?

It's probably moot as I expect a rougher form of justice will prevail should he be convicted, possibly sooner. Or, also possible, and perhaps more disturbingly if he's acquitted.