What does the confederate flag mean to you?

[malakos]

The KKK has planned a rally at the SC statehouse to support the continued flying of the treason rag.

Treason rag? I'm guessing you're talking about this.

 

[malakos]

There were actually three confederate flags during the south's succession from the union aka treason against the united states aka the union of traitors against the King.

Fixed it for you.

 

[punk09]

First, it means "I have a small penis," and second, it means "I am a traitor," and third, it means "I'm the worst person in the world."

Here's how the Texas Legislature couched its secession resolution:

"...in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states...."

Recall that the Texas "Revolution" was really a revolt against Mexico to preserve slavery after it had abolished slavery.

 

[Jjz1109]

In what company is this? I'm in a Fortune 100 company, as you go up the ladder, diversity is sparse. The minorites are in the entry level jobs overwhelmingly compared to their counterparts. You can find minorities with college degrees that can't get pass that glass ceiling that is far lower then any other group. I work for one of the better companies for diversity, however, they meet the diversity quota with outsourced labor from India. I see no evidence of Jose or DeShawn getting the job over Joe. Matter of fact, what I do see is if they have an ethnic sounding name, they get fewer call backs for interviews or none at all. If you don't believe my personal experience, go google some of the facts supporting this. It is a BIG ASS myth that companies are hiring blacks/latinos over whites. That may be true in a black owned business, which is rare. In my position, I am a rarity. Trust me, blacks and hispanics are not taking jobs away from white men like Fox news would have you believe.

Agree diversity at the upper ranks of mangement is an issue, which is why all the focus and attention by public companies at present. Not sure what company or industry you are in, but they are behind the times. I am talking about trends and not current stats. I can assure you that in financial services this is getting major attention, with D&I roles and teams booming. Diversity initiatives are a major focus of senior management. It's happening. As I said, Jose has better opportunities today than joe in my industry. And BTW, offshore staff, whether in India or any other global location, are not factored into US diversity stats. You don't know what you are talking about.

Is someone getting hurt in this? Yes, someone always gets hurt. Or feels,an injustice. Is it right or wrong? Who knows? No one will admit to this given the obvious issues this would raise. But it's happening.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Fixed it for you.

You make a point about how one man's traitor is another man's freedom fighter ... but we are not allowed to alter the words within quotes.
Just sayin.

 

[khadejiacat]

Agree diversity at the upper ranks of mangement is an issue, which is why all the focus and attention by public companies at present. Not sure what company or industry you are in, but they are behind the times. I am talking about trends and not current stats. I can assure you that in financial services this is getting major attention, with D&I roles and teams booming. Diversity initiatives are a major focus of senior management. It's happening. As I said, Jose has better opportunities today than joe in my industry. And BTW, offshore staff, whether in India or any other global location, are not factored into US diversity stats. You don't know what you are talking about.

Is someone getting hurt in this? Yes, someone always gets hurt. Or feels,an injustice. Is it right or wrong? Who knows? No one will admit to this given the obvious issues this would raise. But it's happening.

I'm in the financial services market, and I have eyes. I can tell you there is a hell of a lot more diversity at entry level then it is in the professional services departments. I can also tell you brown faces like my own in my field, that I see, are typically indians not african americans despite record numbers of african american graduating from college with adequate degrees. I also travel with my job and see this disparity in many of the locations I am servicing. Many of my friends in this situation can't even find a job in their field despite having bachelors and sometimes graduate degrees. I am speaking directly from knowledge of people in this situation not from some second hand information. After being in the field for 21 years, it has slightly improved, but not by much.

 

[malakos]

You make a point about how one man's traitor is another man's freedom fighter ... but we are not allowed to alter the words within quotes.
Just sayin.

"Freedom fighter" and "traitor" are not mutually exclusive. Treason has a fairly objective definition. The problem is with people thinking that revolution can be justified but treason inherently is not. But revolution is inherently treasonous.

Not allowed? It is against the TOS?

 

[vince]

Treason rag? I'm guessing you're talking about this.

You are equating the flag of those who overthrew the monarchy, with that of those who rebelled against the US Government for the right to own, to breed, and to trade other human beings for profit. Their motives were immoral and dishonorable. Furthermore, that flag has been used as a banner by terrorist elements in the USA who have committed mass murder, rape and the burning of houses of worship.

Yes we get it, history is written by the victors. It's kind of a pointless argument to make because the losers of the Civil War were as evil as any in human history. But thank goodness the victor in this case was the army of Abraham Lincoln. The Confederacy and those who have committed terrorist acts in it's memory, are no better than ISIS. Both follow an ideology of hatred and oppression, expressed and promoted by terror. Instead of being admired, reenacted and building monuments to their memories, both groups need be consigned to history's garbage bin.

 

[malakos]

You are equating the flag of those who overthrew the monarchy, with that of those who rebelled against the US Government for the right to own, to breed, and to trade other human beings for profit.

This is a false distinction, because there is actually overlap of the two descriptions when it comes to the realities of the two. The real underlying reason for the American Revolution was likewise economic, and in many cases this involved precisely owning, breeding, and trading other human beings. The only difference is that they were not quite as threatened, they were fighting to be able to exploit other humans more freely. The Parliament was starting to restrict this freedom of exploitation through increased taxes. That's what it was really about. Nearly the same thing as the Civil War.

 

[vince]

More possible terrorist attacks.

Concern grows as black churches burn across South
Bomb threats increase in wake of Emanuel AME massacre.

"Flames engulfed a historic African-American church Tuesday night that was already destroyed once by a blaze ignited by the Ku Klux Klan in 1995.
Mount Zion AME Church in Greeleyville is the seventh black church to burn across the South in the wake of the killing of nine worshipers at Charleston’s Emanuel AME Church."

"Federal and state authorities investigating the early mornings church fires say all are suspicious or of undetermined origin."

http://www.postandcourier.com/artic...ern-grows-as-black-churches-burn-across-south

List of attacks against African-American churches
Since 1995, over 40 black churches across the South have burned. What is Homeland Security doing about this?

 

[Jjz1109]

I'm in the financial services market, and I have eyes. I can tell you there is a hell of a lot more diversity at entry level then it is in the professional services departments. I can also tell you brown faces like my own in my field, that I see, are typically indians not african americans despite record numbers of african american graduating from college with adequate degrees. I also travel with my job and see this disparity in many of the locations I am servicing. Many of my friends in this situation can't even find a job in their field despite having bachelors and sometimes graduate degrees. I am speaking directly from knowledge of people in this situation not from some second hand information. After being in the field for 21 years, it has slightly improved, but not by much.

Don't dispute your observations. As I mentioned, the trend is towards diversity in hiring. The easiest and quickest way to accomplish this is via entry level hires, building a pipeline for the future. As to your observation regarding the hiring of more Indians than African Americans, what is your assessment? What do you think are the reasons for this? I see indians almost exclusively in tech jobs, and presume this has something to do with it. Again, my point was that Jose has much more opportunity of getting that entry level job and internship, and even at other ranks, than joe in today's market. As to your friends' inability to find jobs, my nephew, who is white, and with a bachelors degree from a fairly good school, only recently found temporary employment a full year after his graduation. Welcome to the wonderful job market we hear so much about.

The professional services / senior roles are fewer and far between, and frequently require very specific requirements. Everything is specialized in today's job market.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

"Freedom fighter" and "traitor" are not mutually exclusive. Treason has a fairly objective definition. The problem is with people thinking that revolution can be justified but treason inherently is not. But revolution is inherently treasonous.

So people who feel a particular revolution is justified will call the traitors "freedom fighters."
And those who don't will simply call them "traitors."
My original point.
So what is your point?

Not allowed? It is against the TOS?

I believe so. If not, then a mod or two has explicitly warned the board about this.
(This was a long time ago ... perhaps things have changed.)

 

[Bardox]

Question: If fire fighters fight fires and crime fighters fight crime, What do freedom fighters fight??

Food for thought.

 

[StormfrontFL]

You are equating the flag of those who overthrew the monarchy, with that of those who rebelled against the US Government for the right to own, to breed, and to trade other human beings for profit. Their motives were immoral and dishonorable. Furthermore, that flag has been used as a banner by terrorist elements in the USA who have committed mass murder, rape and the burning of houses of worship.

Yes we get it, history is written by the victors. It's kind of a pointless argument to make because the losers of the Civil War were as evil as any in human history. But thank goodness the victor in this case was the army of Abraham Lincoln. The Confederacy and those who have committed terrorist acts in it's memory, are no better than ISIS. Both follow an ideology of hatred and oppression, expressed and promoted by terror. Instead of being admired, reenacted and building monuments to their memories, both groups need be consigned to history's garbage bin.

There was a film made that showed what might have happened had the South won the war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.S.A.:_The_Confederate_States_of_America

 

[halcyondays]

Treason rag? I'm guessing you're talking about this.

There was nervous laughter in the room when Ben Franklin said "We can hang together or we hang separately." They all understood they were committing treason against The Crown in 1776. None of the Confederate founding fathers ever admitted they were committing treason.

 

[AlwaysSunnyinDFW]

I'm a Texan and I don't have any particular affinity to it. personally, it's a symbol of somebody who lost :/ plus, the Lone Star flag is wayyyyy cooler anyways

 

[khadejiacat]

I'm a Texan and I don't have any particular affinity to it. personally, it's a symbol of somebody who lost :/ plus, the Lone Star flag is wayyyyy cooler anyways

I must admin, Texas has a kick ass state flag.

 

[AlwaysSunnyinDFW]

I must admin, Texas has a kick ass state flag.

ayyy tis the truth indeed. simple, bold, and tattoo-ready. it literally embodies everything texan haha

 

[vince]

There was nervous laughter in the room when Ben Franklin said "We can hang together or we hang separately."

Hanging together? What a picture in the head. Now I wonder what he would have to say about gay marriage.

 

[Fuzzy_]

I see indians almost exclusively in tech jobs, and presume this has something to do with it.

Educated minorities are much less likely to get hired in IT jobs unless they're Asian. Indian expatriates tend to earn significantly less than their coworkers and are largely excluded from executive positions. Legislation and social sanctions may be needed to force equality of opportunity. Forget the "lean in circles" and force fair hiring making hiring proportionate.

Again, my point was that Jose has much more opportunity of getting that entry level job and internship, and even at other ranks, than joe in today's market.

Statistics, please. Hispanics represent only 3% of employees in major silicon valley companies despite much higher graduation numbers. There is little substantive equality of opportunity in corporate America.

As to your friends' inability to find jobs, my nephew, who is white, and with a bachelors degree from a fairly good school, only recently found temporary employment a full year after his graduation. Welcome to the wonderful job market we hear so much about.

Thanks for the anecdote. How about some real evidence, like statistics?

The professional services / senior roles are fewer and far between, and frequently require very specific requirements. Everything is specialized in today's job market.

As once advances up the corporate ladder, it looks awfully white. The truth is that only 1% of Fortune 500 CEOs are black. Racial oppression is insidious.