What does the confederate flag mean to you?

Simon9

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To the point I made a bit earlier...

View attachment 409100
Yes, point taken. Big of course, the bigger f*ing deal is that pic was made back in the 1920's when the Klan was huge and marched openly in Washington and viewed themselves as patriotic Americans. Now they're a marginalized group of haters and most Americans would happily kick their butts as look at them. Things have changed a lot in just under a century.
 

bwhip1011

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To me it's simply a part of history and that's that. We, just a every other country, have a national flag. It's to be honored, cherished, and treated with respect. If you have feelings for other flags then sobeit.
 

freeballininnyc

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How is a flag used to intimidate someone? I mean, I guess I can see how that could be the result of it hanging there or whatever but I'm confused as to how you actually IMPLEMENT it for intimidation. Also, it's been a while since I attended one so I can't speak as to what flags are present at a lynching.
 

playainda336

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...so nobody just watched the video? Everybody wants to just spout rhetoric back and forth and bicker? Nobody wants to progress past the same old arguments that your fathers and mothers were making toward each other?

Oh ok, then...
 
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StormfrontFL

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How is a flag used to intimidate someone? I mean, I guess I can see how that could be the result of it hanging there or whatever but I'm confused as to how you actually IMPLEMENT it for intimidation. Also, it's been a while since I attended one so I can't speak as to what flags are present at a lynching.
A flag is used to intimidate when it is draped along with burning crosses or hanging figures. As for your attempt at humor regarding lynchings all one has to do is look at some pictures that were taken at lynchings so you failed at being funny. What's next? Will you too say that no black person should ever have been afraid of the KKK? You wouldn't be the first on this site.
 

freeballininnyc

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A flag is used to intimidate when it is draped along with burning crosses or hanging figures. As for your attempt at humor regarding lynchings all one has to do is look at some pictures that were taken at lynchings so you failed at being funny. What's next? Will you too say that no black person should ever have been afraid of the KKK? You wouldn't be the first on this site.

Actually, my attempt at humor was due to your suggestion that the Confederate Flag is used these days to intimidate a black family moving into a white neighborhood or it being the flag present at lynchings as though they still occur. To your clarification in your last post, if there are burning crosses and hanging figures around, I don't think ANY flag is what's going to give me cause for alarm.

OF COURSE the flag has been used in many white supremacist environments - again, I have NEVER said that it wasn't. But that's not the ONLY thing that one can associate with that flag.
 

StormfrontFL

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Actually, my attempt at humor was due to your suggestion that the Confederate Flag is used these days to intimidate a black family moving into a white neighborhood or it being the flag present at lynchings as though they still occur. To your clarification in your last post, if there are burning crosses and hanging figures around, I don't think ANY flag is what's going to give me cause for alarm.

OF COURSE the flag has been used in many white supremacist environments - again, I have NEVER said that it wasn't. But that's not the ONLY thing that one can associate with that flag.
I never said that those who have the flag are necessarily racist, in fact I've stated the opposite. If a person wearing or waving the flag walked up to a black person and asked why does this bother you, clearly not knowing or not caring about what that flag means, then that person is an idiot. It's called empathy and it seems to be something those who want to see the flag flown along with the U.S. flag don't have. Swastikas are no longer flown so according to you Jewish people should not get so hurt when they are seen. Swastikas/Holocaust and Stars & Bars/Racist past...both are horrible but according to your post one is bad and the other is just a reason to make jokes..
 

tncentaur

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Actually, my attempt at humor was due to your suggestion that the Confederate Flag is used these days to intimidate a black family moving into a white neighborhood or it being the flag present at lynchings as though they still occur. To your clarification in your last post, if there are burning crosses and hanging figures around, I don't think ANY flag is what's going to give me cause for alarm.

OF COURSE the flag has been used in many white supremacist environments - again, I have NEVER said that it wasn't. But that's not the ONLY thing that one can associate with that flag.

FBiNYC,
That's right--you can associate all kinds of stupid shit with it, and if you want to stand up for all the moron shit it represents, fine by me.
This flag stands for LOSERS--maybe you can wag it on your wienie, too!

upload_2015-6-24_9-24-36-jpeg.393302

img_2187-jpg.399273
 

temptotalk

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Actually, my attempt at humor was due to your suggestion that the Confederate Flag is used these days to intimidate a black family moving into a white neighborhood or it being the flag present at lynchings as though they still occur. To your clarification in your last post, if there are burning crosses and hanging figures around, I don't think ANY flag is what's going to give me cause for alarm.

OF COURSE the flag has been used in many white supremacist environments - again, I have NEVER said that it wasn't. But that's not the ONLY thing that one can associate with that flag.

Wait so you personally know every last black person in america? How exactly did you manage that one? Are you some sort of time lord? Or did you find out through the internet tubes. Whose your internet provider? Skynet. Oh no maybe you're professor xavier and you can read the minds of allz the black peoplekins. Ah well guess ya know stuffs.
 

playainda336

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I think what irks me most about Confederate flag supporters is the fact that they REFUSE to identify what the Confederate flag means to the majority of the world (including European White supremacist who utilize it instead of the Nazi flag because that flag is banned everywhere but the United States) and/or (the part that REALLY gets me) they REFUSE to DISTANCE themselves from what they know people associate with it.

It's like somebody says "The Confederate flag is a flag primarily flown by racists, White supremacists, and hate groups."

The response is, "It represents my heritage! Standing for what you believe in! Strength (?!)"

Which does not say, "I abhor the people who utilize the flag for racist causes. I'm not a White supremacist and I refuse to associate with people of any of those hate groups."

Unfortunately, that last part is usually not said because they don't feel that way. To move PAST this old rhetoric spouting match, there has to be some sort of common ground on the issue. It comes across that there is not.

This makes the response turn into, "My heritage is tied up in racist causes. I am a White supremacist and that's what I believe in! We are still strong!"

I wonder how many Confederate flag supporters realize that. Maybe that's a talking point.
------------
I think I'll post the video every time I make a reply in this thread. At least once per page.
Screen Shot 2015-09-07 at 8.34.50 AM.png


And if took this screenshot so you could see WHO was doing the talking in the video for you to watch it, that speaks volumes.

 

freeballininnyc

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I never said that those who have the flag are necessarily racist, in fact I've stated the opposite. If a person wearing or waving the flag walked up to a black person and asked why does this bother you, clearly not knowing or not caring about what that flag means, then that person is an idiot. It's called empathy and it seems to be something those who want to see the flag flown along with the U.S. flag don't have. Swastikas are no longer flown so according to you Jewish people should not get so hurt when they are seen. Swastikas/Holocaust and Stars & Bars/Racist past...both are horrible but according to your post one is bad and the other is just a reason to make jokes..

I hate the comparison between the Nazi Flag and the Confederate Flag because it really isn't a good analogy. The Nazi Flag ONLY represented the Nazis and their white supremacy leanings. The Confederate Flag was a military flag that later took on white supremacist symbolism for SOME people. At the time of its origin, yes, there was a feeling of white supremacy but that was universal throughout the nation, not just in the Confederacy. I have always said I understood why black people didn't like it but you will also find black people, though a smaller number, who aren't offended by it. I have never said that black people shouldn't feel this way or that about it. I've only said that flying it or not flying it doesn't do anything to enhance or subdue someone's racism.
 

freeballininnyc

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I think what irks me most about Confederate flag supporters is the fact that they REFUSE to identify what the Confederate flag means to the majority of the world (including European White supremacist who utilize it instead of the Nazi flag because that flag is banned everywhere but the United States) and/or (the part that REALLY gets me) they REFUSE to DISTANCE themselves from what they know people associate with it.

It's like somebody says "The Confederate flag is a flag primarily flown by racists, White supremacists, and hate groups."

The response is, "It represents my heritage! Standing for what you believe in! Strength (?!)"

Which does not say, "I abhor the people who utilize the flag for racist causes. I'm not a White supremacist and I refuse to associate with people of any of those hate groups."

Unfortunately, that last part is usually not said because they don't feel that way. To move PAST this old rhetoric spouting match, there has to be some sort of common ground on the issue. It comes across that there is not.

This makes the response turn into, "My heritage is tied up in racist causes. I am a White supremacist and that's what I believe in! We are still strong!"

I wonder how many Confederate flag supporters realize that. Maybe that's a talking point.
------------
I think I'll post the video every time I make a reply in this thread. At least once per page.
View attachment 409529

And if took this screenshot so you could see WHO was doing the talking in the video for you to watch it, that speaks volumes.


I'm sorry you've never, or rarely, heard supporters of the heritage of the Confederate Flag as a symbol of heritage distance themselves from the white supremacists. That's sad. I on the other hand have had that conversation with many people . I think when people say "It's about heritage", that's them not giving any attention to the white supremacists because the truth is, heritage supporters dislike those groups as much as everyone else.

I liken my stance on it to this. I am a gay man and a Christian. I had a conversation with an atheist a couple of years ago, also gay, who asked me, "How can you believe in God? He doesn't want you to be gay and hates you because of it. At least that what his supporters would have you believe." My response was, "Why would I stop believing in God just because his supporters get the message wrong? That doesn't make any sense." I couldn't get him to understand and to reconcile the difference between God and "Christians" who think they have the total truth. The same is true here. Why would I sacrifice MY beliefs about what a flag represents TO ME just because it represents something awful to someone else? I do empathize with how they feel but that doesn't mean I have to take that belief as my own or back down from explaining why I feel the way I do.
 

freeballininnyc

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FBiNYC,
That's right--you can associate all kinds of stupid shit with it, and if you want to stand up for all the moron shit it represents, fine by me.
This flag stands for LOSERS--maybe you can wag it on your wienie, too!

upload_2015-6-24_9-24-36-jpeg.393302

img_2187-jpg.399273

Actually I've never supported all the "stupid shit" it stands for and admittedly, there's a good bit. But that doesn't sum up it's entire worth. I DO like the pic you found with guns instead of stars though. That's awesome!!! Although, there might lead to a looming gun debate and oh, I am tired of those. The second pic is just silly. I mean, the dick is too small to get any pleasure out of that.
 

freeballininnyc

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Ok gentlemen. I think I've said all I can say or want to say about this topic. It's become circular and I'm tired. I said in an earlier post that I wasn't discussing it further and then I fell into the trap again. So, officially, my part of this has come to an end. Like the flag, hate the flag, or don't give to hoots about it. All your choice. All valid.
 
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vince

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Why would I sacrifice MY beliefs about what a flag represents TO ME just because it represents something awful to someone else? I do empathize with how they feel but that doesn't mean I have to take that belief as my own or back down from explaining why I feel the way I do.
It does mean that as a decent human being, who has the ability to empathize and is able to put yourself in the shoes of another, that you should take down the flag. If one understands that it is offensive to others, then one should have no problem not flying it in their face. If it's just a flag that should not really bother anyone who understands its original meaning, then it shouldn't really bother anyone to not fly it either.

I've only said that flying it or not flying it doesn't do anything to enhance or subdue someone's racism.
I don't agree. Symbols are powerful and are used to unite those who wish to make common cause. For good or evil purposes.
And not flying it may reduce someone else's feeling of intimation, or persecution. So why not be nice and do that for them? Even if you think their feelings are not warranted. ??

This summer I rode a motorcycle all over the beautiful back roads of northern Florida for 10 days. Seemed like every fourth house had a US flag hanging off the front porch. I don't know why they feel the need to do that. But whatever... Their where also a lot (many many), jacked-up 4x4 pickup trucks with loud exhausts running around with HUGE Confederate flags flying behind the cabs. At gas stations and restaurants where these vehicles were stopped, the men in them didn't have anything but hatred and suspicion in their eyes. Their use of that symbolism had nothing to do with their heritage and everything to do with expressing hate and intimidation. It fit perfectly with the Aryan and Nazi tattoos many of them were sporting.
 

StormfrontFL

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I hate the comparison between the Nazi Flag and the Confederate Flag because it really isn't a good analogy. The Nazi Flag ONLY represented the Nazis and their white supremacy leanings. The Confederate Flag was a military flag that later took on white supremacist symbolism for SOME people. At the time of its origin, yes, there was a feeling of white supremacy but that was universal throughout the nation, not just in the Confederacy. I have always said I understood why black people didn't like it but you will also find black people, though a smaller number, who aren't offended by it. I have never said that black people shouldn't feel this way or that about it. I've only said that flying it or not flying it doesn't do anything to enhance or subdue someone's racism.
No one is saying you shouldn't have the right to fly it. Fly it all you want on your own property but don't give it a place of honor on government land.
 

Chrysippus

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Personally, the problem I have with this flag is that it has come to represent exclusion and opposition/resistance to social and political change in this country, and sometimes bigotry and outright racial hatred. It doesn't matter what it used to represent or what it originally represented or what it was intended to represent: as the times have changed, what the 'stars and bars' represents has changed, and changed for the worse.

The people that I personally have known or seen to display the stars and bars, are, well, resentful of change and angry. Not one of them is an intellectual, not one of them is a community leader, not one of them is a proponent of a general good will toward their fellow humans. No one would think to take this flag as an emblem of human culture into galactic space in search of contact with other intelligent beings of good will. Show me one American Nobel Prize winner with the s&b on the back of his/her car!

The confederate civil war dead (actually any dead folks) have no need of flags where they are now. If you need to hold Rebel heritage dear, that's all about you, not about the US Civil War dead. Since the war was won and won conclusively, all of the fallen in our Civil War national catastrophe can all be honored with the US flag--this is one country and many died to insure that.

To me, some posters here have made good points, and some come not to argue but rather to quarrel. Much of what goes on in the political threads seems to consist of making distinctions that don't make a difference, or well, getting one's rocks off (this is a cock site, after all...). And I've seen a lot of revisionist history and "I wish it were so' history put forth here--as well as some interesting history I didn't know.

Please don't reply with a 'yes, but' post: what I have expressed here is an opinion.
 

halcyondays

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The Confederate Flag was a military flag that later took on white supremacist symbolism for SOME people.

Wrong. It was and always will be a racist symbol of white supremacy and intimidation. In his Cornerstone Speech in March 1861, Confederate Vice President Alexander Stevens said, "Our government is founded on the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

Remember, too, from 1863-65 the battle flag was the canton of the confederate national flag.

It didn't become a symbol of white supremacy later. It always has been. And of treason.