"What Happened To All The Nice Guys?"

[gingerale]

Interesting how many of the women here dismiss the Craigslist postings referenced by Flame Boy and HotSwimmr.

There was a lot of truth in those posts.
A lot.

And how often do I hear the complaint by women that men don't communicate and share their feelings.
Those posts are the feelings of a lot of men.
And they are dismissed.

Well ladies a lot of men feel this way because a lot of women have not rewarded nice guy behavior and reward jerks and assholes.

Find a nice guy that is say over 21.
I bet at some point there was a woman friend
He had a giant crush on

Did stuff for
Give rides or lent his car
Help move or paint the apartment
Walk the dog

Provided emotional support when she needed someone to talk to
about some man
and another man
and another man
who mistreated her

And at some point was told
"I love having you as a friend"
"I wouldn't want to ruin our friendship by getting involved."

Translation:
"You are a nice guy."
"I only fuck assholes."

And the guy is thinking
"Let's risk ruining it"

and eventually his thought was
"Well it is ruined, because I can't stand to hear about how unappreciative the guy you just had sex with is when I am appreciative without sex and you won't have it with me."

No one likes ulterior motives--and that is what you just described. The guy is thinking all along that if he does all the "nice stuff" he can get the girl to drop her panties, while the girl is thinking she has a friend.

If a man likes a woman in sexual/romantic way, he should never pretend to be a friend, because that is were he will remain.

 

[rob_just_rob]

If a man likes a woman in sexual/romantic way, he should never pretend to be a friend, because that is were he will remain.

Yes.

I never understand when anyone says that they want to be "friends first". Gets the whole thing off on the wrong foot. I'm not saying that can't work, but you're handicapping yourself if you try that.

 

[Pitbull]

No one likes ulterior motives--and that is what you just described. The guy is thinking all along that if he does all the "nice stuff" he can get the girl to drop her panties, while the girl is thinking she has a friend.

If a man likes a woman in sexual/romantic way, he should never pretend to be a friend, because that is were he will remain.

Ulterior motives is what you think I described.
But I described the plight of many nice guys.
Who operate from the understanding that they should be respectful of women and not treat them as sex objects but as people.
The nice guy is not a pretend friend but a true friend.
An unappreciated friend.

Sounds like you are telling me that you have friends and sexual/romantic partners and they are different people.
And you keep your friends as friends.
Perhaps frustrated friends.
In a good strong relationship the qualities should all be possessed.
A sexual romantic friend.

So if you don't wish to move men out of the friend zone,
do you move your romantic sex partners into the friend zone
or does the relationship remain shallow?

In the situation I described
the nice guy finishes last and the jerk has his conquest and the woman is disappointed but does not give the nice guy a chance.

There can be sexy nice guys (an article was referenced that mentioned Will Smith) but too often nice guys are perceived as eunuchs.

 

[petite]

No one likes ulterior motives--and that is what you just described. The guy is thinking all along that if he does all the "nice stuff" he can get the girl to drop her panties, while the girl is thinking she has a friend.

If a man likes a woman in sexual/romantic way, he should never pretend to be a friend, because that is were he will remain.

Exactly. Nice guys can ask a woman out just as easily as any other guy.

Yes.

I never understand when anyone says that they want to be "friends first". Gets the whole thing off on the wrong foot. I'm not saying that can't work, but you're handicapping yourself if you try that.

I agree! This is true.

Respecting women doesn't mean that you have to act like they're not sexually attractive to you.

 

[sbat]

I can see both sides.

Girls look to the jerks because they provide the sexual excitement necessary for a relationship. I think it was Freyasworld who said that the three elements of a relationship were friendship, sex, attachment. Of course, young girls want the sex - they're hot, they're feelin' it. They want a guy that can give it to them. And that nice, respectful guy is often completely devoid of the qualities that make a man sexually attractive, and frequently use the "nice" shield as an excuse for not making a damn move. So devoid of any kind of balls that they would rather complain and get bitter about not getting the girl than actually just making a move and risking failure.

Nice guys are the ones that create the perception of eunuchs by being completely non-sexual around the girl they want to have sex with. You complained that girls "hints" are too cryptic? How is a girl supposed to know you want to fuck her if you don't tell her and if you give her no real signal?

 

[sbat]

Ah, I see petite just posted something before to the same effect. Rock on sister

 

[Daisy]

Honestly Pittbull I just don't get this whole concept:
Did stuff for
Give rides or lent his car
Help move or paint the apartment
Walk the dog

I have never had a male friend like this, I don't know any women who have friends like this unless the guy happens to be gay or a fuck buddy. Why would a man be driving this girl around, shopping, moving , walking her dog unless 1.) he wanted to sleep with her or 2) he wanted to sleep with her.
I mean really, you're a nice guy, I get that.. but are you honestly saying you've acted as a personal assistant to women in the past and that you are surprised when they say they just want to be friends? First of all I find it VERY hard to believe as was mentioned above that there are no other motives except to be "nice". Would you do all of those things for a fat, ugly girl? Or was it all in hopes of "auditioning" as a boyfriend? I mean that...is ulterior motives, which doesn't make it evil or anything just lets be honest. Most men would not bother to cater to a woman unless he wanted something out of it like a romantic relationship. One other point I wanted to make is, even if a man did all of these things, why would that be HER fault? I mean if you're bending over backwards for her and not expecting anything in return why does that make her bad for not wanting to have sex with you??? You're the one who choses to spend time with her, run her errands, etc. that seems to be your issue is it not? (I say you in the general sense, not necessarily you personally). If your true motive is just to bring happiness to her life and not expect anything back then this statement makes no sense:
"I can't stand to hear about how unappreciative the guy you just had sex with is when I am appreciative without sex and you won't have it with me."
I can't help but think if this is happening to you over and over then you're drawing these types of women to you by being a "rescuer" and/or self fulfilling prophecy.

Whatever you expect to happen is determined by the thoughts you dwell upon plus the intensity of the emotions behind those thoughts. It is worth repeating that our subconscious does not question the validity of the data we present to it. It merely processes it and attracts to us what we believe to be true. - Dr. Robert Anthony

 

[petite]

Good point, Seaside!

 

[loganxxx22]

I also think when girls say a guy is too nice to date they are trying to spare their feelings, because saying someone is nice..sounds nice. Kind of like the "it's not you it's me" routine.

I also think a lot of people confuse niceness with meekness. There is always that biblical verse which says the meek shall inherit the earth...that phrase may be why I question religion so much lol, because we all know that there is no way that can ever be true. If you want something/someone in life you better go for it...or at least put yourself in a position so you attain it when it comes your way.

I was the nice guy in high school who didn't date too much because I was scared shitless of the opposite sex. Once I got to college I got more confident, & at ease with myself and with women and then I started getting laid and having real relationships. I did turn into a pseudo-ass for awhile when I was racking up bedpost notches, but it was just a phase and it was more being playfully arrogant...not being cruel or mean spirited.

I just think a lot of this stuff gets laid out so simplistically that it doesn't illuminate much truth. I think young women respond to assholes because they're unsure of themselves and like decisive action. I think a lot of us guys like being with some crazy, unstable women in high school or college because it was exciting, even when the wheels went off the track!

The older you get, the less shit you learn to put up with, and things come together much easier...or at least in my experience . Finding well adjusted happy people who don't get off drama is much more pleasing and healthy in the long term.

But the men who aren't in touch with their feelings thing has always been a lame argument...in relationships I've always been the one who is initially most open. My current gf said before she met me she kept everything to herself, but after seeing how open I am with her, now she can express herself without being fearful of being judged.

Sorry for the ramble but I always feel the need to speak out when I read cliched stuff like this.

 

[Pitbull]

Honestly Pittbull I just don't get this whole concept:
Did stuff for
Give rides or lent his car
Help move or paint the apartment
Walk the dog

I have never had a male friend like this, I don't know any women who have friends like this unless the guy happens to be gay or a fuck buddy.

I do stuff like this for my friends.
Fat ugly ones
Guy friends even (and I'm not gay)

So you never had a friend like this. (Tempted to remark about the horns and pitchfork but I know it is just a cartoon avitar and not really you)
My point goes to the original post.
There are nice guys like this.
A lot of them.
You have not noticed them.
And it is not a desire to sleep with someone that motivates them.
They like the person
They become friends

It just grates on them when they become the sounding board for women about all the negative stuff in life that has to do with the men that treat them like shit.
And they bitch and moan about how they would like a guy to treat them nicely and the nice guy wonders which piece of furniture in the room he is being mistaken for.

You have a man and from the sounds of things it is a good fit (no pun intended). Congratulations! But realize that there are many many women not so fortunate. Just check out Match.com, eharmony, Yahoo personals, etc etc etc.
And they all want a nice guy.
And a lot of them complain that all the nice guys are taken or gay.
And the other guys just want to get laid.

I am just pointing out there is truth in the posts.
A lot of the guys out there are former nice guys.
Former for a reason.

And just like places like eharmony make a lot of money from women looking, there are those who make money off of frustrated men.
The Pick Up Artist industry.
And they tell the nice guys not to be nice if they wish to succeed with women.

I would like to think I am a nice guy - still.
I do things for my friends and even for people who are not my friends.
And I will confess to being a romantic who in the past carried a torch for some of my women friends and suffered unrequited love.
But the torch is now extinguished and will only be relighted with someone who provides their fair share of the sparks to cause a flame to burn.

 

[B_Nick8]

Nice guy = The guy who hasn't grown some balls yet.

That's bullshit. Sometimes it's just called manners. Or courtesy. Or genuine interest in other people.

Heard this all before.

Nice guys aren't usually nice, really. And if the word you choose to describe yourself with is "nice", then you just aren't very interesting.

I agree that if all you can say about someone is that he or she is "nice" that's pretty much a total dismissal and for good reason. Otherwise, see above.

Nick8.
How have you been?
I have not been spending as much time here as I used to....

I'm great, Pit. Haven't been around near as much lately, for lots of reasons which don't bear going into here and now. You?

 

[dolfette]

ok, i confess.
it was me.
the nice guys are in jars in my room.
well...bits of them are. the rest got thrown to the fish.

 

[Pitbull]

ok, i confess.
it was me.
the nice guys are in jars in my room.
well...bits of them are. the rest got thrown to the fish.

I knew it all the time.
Why do you think I have not been to Europe.
You are like some big game hunter and would probably have me stuffed or maybe my head mounted over your bed.

 

[dolfette]

you just wish i'd mount you on my bed!

 

[D_Petherick_Poundlouder]

That's bullshit. Sometimes it's just called manners. Or courtesy. Or genuine interest in other people.

Or not.

 

[Pitbull]

you just wish i'd mount you on my bed!

Since you brought it up it probably is a wish of yours. :wink:

However it could only be on mutually acceptable terms and that will probably never happen.
Once the handcuffs are on and the mouth gag is inserted :tapedshut:
all agreements go out the window.

:spank::no1:

And I will probably painfully find out that you do have monsters under your bed - in your "toy" box.

 

[Daisy]

OK Pitbull....the avatar comment made me laugh! So to address your comments..

And they bitch and moan about how they would like a guy to treat them nicely and the nice guy wonders which piece of furniture in the room he is being mistaken for.
so again...I say why do you continue in unhealthy relationships like this? If you're "friends" with a female who "uses" you as a piece of furniture than you need to break off all ties with that person because continuing to stick around is not healthy for you. You are not being a nice guy by engaging in that kind of relationship, you're being a doormat. Just something to think about.

You have a man and from the sounds of things it is a good fit (no pun intended). Congratulations! But realize that there are many many women not so fortunate.

Do you know how old I am?? Do you know how many crappy relationships I've endured? Being in this relationship is not due to luck, it's because I happen to have chosen to be with a guy who treats me like I want to be treated and he is a NICE GUY!

You know how you said that nice guys come in to your life and you don't notice them? Well the guy who I called at 2:00 am to cry over another guy, sat on my bed and listened, was sweet and caring...I didn't fail to notice him, in fact I married him. So much for that. Just because a guy starts out nice (they all START) that way doesn't mean they stay nice!! (My divorce is testament to that). Any guy can start out all sweet and lovey but as soon as they "get" you..well I've seen it happen all too often. There are no guarantees in life!

 

[MrMXYZPTLK]

Girl's seem to not go for the nice guy, because most nice guys don't stand up for themselves. Women see that as a guy that won't stand up for them. Women ussually want a guy that will stand up for and protect them.

Alot of nice guys are capable of beating the crap out of the asshole, but if a girl doesn't think you can, they put you into the friendzone.

To all the nice guys out there, you can be a nice guy. But if you see another guy slap the girl your datings ass, don't be quiet about it. Because if you saw a guy slap her ass, she most likely knows you saw it. If you do nothing, she'll have a instant impression what you, wether it be correct or not.

Sometimes what you DON'T DO, makes a bigger impression than what you do

 

[D_Humper E Bogart]

Pitbull, Nick8, you own this thread!

Evil>>>nice in this scenario.

Anyway, my world is the friendzone, I wouldn't have it any other way. It's just a shame that murder is illegal really. It'd get my "respect points" up higher.

 

[Boondocksaints]

Girls are not attracted to assholes as many people say. They are attracted to confidence- it just so happens some assholes have confidence. Some women mistake assholeness for confidence when it's really fake. Some nice guys have confidence too.

"Nice guys" finish last is bullshit. Those guys that are "nice guys" aren't nice guys. They are just doormats with no self esteem. No one likes a doormat that doesn't respect or stand up for himself. That's not attractive.