What happened to just plain old common decency?

B_Italian1

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Principessa

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Italian978, the difference between us, is you bait people intentionally. You go to threads where you know they are discussing things you are vehemently opposed to; and state your opinion in the most perfunctory, yet aggresive manner possible and you never back down.

Given your very puritanical and prudish thoughts on sex and sexuality I can't understand for the life of me why you came here, let alone why you stay. :confused: Are you taking part in some sort of hazing process for Promise Keepers?
 

Osiris

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Snoozan,

You are one of the enlightened minds of this forum and you do post with a lot of thought and just plain human decency. Your post is very thoughtful and well put, but a couple of points I feel I need to clarify for the record since there is speculation on who and why I posted this.

I'll take it in parts from your original and very thoughtful post.





First, as a disclaimer, I want to say that I am far from being innocent in spewing forth anger on this site. In fact, it's one of the things in all of my life that I don't like feeling, and like less acting upon in a destructive manner-- but it's something that I've yet to solve in my own psyche. When I get angry I feel a need to act, especially when I feel people are being deceitful or duplicitious. I don't like my attitude on here sometimes, and I admit to being part of the problem. There is a part of me that likes to get down and scrap, but there's a bigger part of me that will listen to reason.

You are too hard on yourself. I don't think this at all about you.

On one hand, you sincerely want the level of discourse here to improve and be kinder, and yet on the other hand you spend a lot of time defending a member who has shown himself to be little more than rude, disruptive, and a troll. Though I've laughed at some of his posts for the humor, I have yet to see him post anything of substance except for your appreciation thread. I see this as being somewhat hypocritical, though I think there's more to it than that-- behind the scenes you've attempted to truly get to know him.

You just answered your quandry. I have gotten to know Arliss through his PMs and he has never been anything but respectful to me and I can't, in good conscience reward that courtesy with anger. Yes, Arliss gets a bit carried away and full of himself and he will admit that to me when I have mentioned it, he knows I don't always agree with his tactic and I hate the fact the majority of this forum doesn't see the good I see from my one on one contact with him in PMs. I think he would admit I try to push him to be that guy I see, but he will only do it in his time. I also do not defend him as you say. The post you are talking about was where he made the rude remark about the dead member. He was out of line and even admitted this to me. I will say maybe I should have been more direct, but if you recall I said he has his problems. I guess I choose to chastise in private rather than make a public war of it. If that makes me weaker than the rest, so be it. I am who I am.

If you want LPSG to be a nicer place, I think you'd be the perfect person to be able to very kindly and constructively call people out on their behavior.

I do, I just don't feel I need to make a public execution of it. I too am not perfect and have also been "PM Reprimanded". Am I upset about it? No and I am glad that people feel and understand they can PM me and I will not bite their heads off. I will say there is no one I have on ignore and no one who I feel is so vile I would discount there words if sincerely stated to me. Maybe you are right, but it just seems that even when people peacefully call someone on things, it turns really ugly. I will try your suggestion, but I will need your help as it is a bit out of character for me to do this.

On the other hand, there's always going to be debate and hot feelings, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing if the participants can remain somewhat civil. I see emotion and passion to be vital parts of life, so I think we need to accept some level of negative emotion to, hopefully, bring about greater understanding in general. I've been following the current racism thread and have found the contributions of you, njqt, playainda, naughty, and others to be informative and eye-opening for me, even though they were written in a rather angry thread and directed at people who will probably never understand your point. However, those of us on the sidelines can get a lot out of a thread like that.

Thank you. Those are hard threads to read and post to and I am glad someone has attained positive out of the related hardships.

If it's one specific person you have in mind that gets bad treatment by regular members (not by random trolls) it may just be that this person truly rubs people the wrong way, and there's not a lot to be done about that. I'm that kind of a person myself, and sometimes you just have to learn to live with it even when your most sincere efforts are made at being honest and true.

For the record, and NJQT knows this, this post was sparked by two members that have randomly popped into threads where NJQT is active and just blatantly attacked and insulted her. I have no problem with debate as anyone can see. it is only through debate and conversation that true peace and unity can be achieved. For out of these debates comes knowledge and experiences that awaken feelings in people. I will also be the first to say that even anger can generate positive when channeled properly.
 

B_Italian1

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Italian978, the difference between us, is you bait people intentionally. You go to threads where you know they are discussing things you are vehemently opposed to; and state your opinion in the most perfunctory, yet aggresive manner possible and you never back down.

You're quite opinionated yourself. I don't think I'm agressive at all. I've seen some extreme agression by other members on here.


Given your very puritanical and prudish thoughts on sex and sexuality I can't understand for the life of me why you came here, let alone why you stay. :confused:
I'm not puritanical or prudish. I believe in monogamy, safe sex, and maybe not all of the sexual practices that others indulge in, but so do many other people on here. Everyone has their boundaries but so many people are p.c. that they remain silent. Believing and doing appear to be different things to different people. When adults talk about unsafe sex it's good to give them reminders. After all, they're adults, not children.
Are you taking part in some sort of hazing process for Promise Keepers?

No, but that's very funny. I like your sense of humor. :smile:
 

DC_DEEP

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I was told to commit suicide as I was the most obnoxious and annoying poster here. Now I can be a bit if a snob; but given that membership here is well over 120,000 I doubt very seriously I am the most obnoxious and annoying poster here. :rolleyes::tongue:
http://www.lpsg.org/1078304-post5.html
[URL="http://www.lpsg.org/1078374-post6.html"]http://www.lpsg.org/1078374-post6.html[/URL]
Thanks, qt. I had not seen that thread, so now I do understand.

I also had a look at redboy's post history. Other than his comments to you, only one post really caught my attention: he addressed, in a specific post to a specific member, some things that indicate he was a previous (most likely banned) member who knows some past and on-going things from back in January (and even from last year)... and definitely not something that would have been posted by someone who has only been around 4 months. I would be interested to know who he was the last time around!

Oh, and his idiotic comment to you was just that... idiotic.
 

snoozan

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As usual, your response is reasonable and well thought out. So much for starting a flamewar!

*throws halloween candy at Osiris*

Anyway, regarding Arliss, I think you're doing right thing and that PM is in general a better way to address concerns about someone's behavior on the board, but when you do that, you run into the problem where not saying anything in public is seen as tacit approval. However, you said it yourself that you'd rather deal with things in PM, and I agree that sometimes that can be more effective. The interesting thing about Arliss is that he once sent me a very nice PM (awhile back), so I can see where he's got a good side. The problem that I've seen is that people get truly hurt by some of his comments and it seems like a lot of people tolerate from him particularly that they wouldn't from others.

I saw the two threads where NJQT was attacked just yesterday I think, and I was angry myself because I consider NJQT a friend and we've had some wonderful conversations. The thing is, I just let those pass by because the guy has 3 posts under his belt and is probably a old troll trying to hurt people and stir shit. In general, she's a very well-respected poster, so I disregard what people like that say. However, in her shoes, I, too, would be hurt, and that really sucks. I would take it personally.

This wasn't what I thought you meant, though, because I hadn't seen those threads. Some posters really do rub others the wrong way and get a lot of shit and I believe they aren't trying to troll, but be genuine. I don't think that's the case for NJQT at all.


 

Sixofspades

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The thing to understand too is that it's rarely personal. I've seen NJQT get attacked several times for no real reason, simply because she posts - if you stick your neck out, you'll face opposition at some point or another. It doesn't have to be warranted or well-constructed, it's a simple numbers game. I can't imagine that folks would have any valid reason for genuinely disliking her. She keeps things rolling on this forum and I for one appreciate her posts. It's not worth sweating the guy who bitches at you when he has 10 posts and probably lost his job that morning.
 

Osiris

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I have way too much respect for you than to flame on you for stating an opinion, especially when it is in part to understand my opinion. I'm not trying to get people to love everyone, that will NEVER happen, but we can at the very least be respectful of others. We each have those we feel a bond to. All of us have those people who we like and don't like and as long as we are free thinking individuals, we will have friends we like and we may not like their friends. It's life.

So hopefully, you will not stop calmly and very constructively debating with me.

And next time I prefer it if you throw Reese's peanut butter cups at me. :wink:


As usual, your response is reasonable and well thought out. So much for starting a flamewar!

*throws halloween candy at Osiris*

Anyway, regarding Arliss, I think you're doing right thing and that PM is in general a better way to address concerns about someone's behavior on the board, but when you do that, you run into the problem where not saying anything in public is seen as tacit approval. However, you said it yourself that you'd rather deal with things in PM, and I agree that sometimes that can be more effective. The interesting thing about Arliss is that he once sent me a very nice PM (awhile back), so I can see where he's got a good side. The problem that I've seen is that people get truly hurt by some of his comments and it seems like a lot of people tolerate from him particularly that they wouldn't from others.

I saw the two threads where NJQT was attacked just yesterday I think, and I was angry myself because I consider NJQT a friend and we've had some wonderful conversations. The thing is, I just let those pass by because the guy has 3 posts under his belt and is probably a old troll trying to hurt people and stir shit. In general, she's a very well-respected poster, so I disregard what people like that say. However, in her shoes, I, too, would be hurt, and that really sucks. I would take it personally.

This wasn't what I thought you meant, though, because I hadn't seen those threads. Some posters really do rub others the wrong way and get a lot of shit and I believe they aren't trying to troll, but be genuine. I don't think that's the case for NJQT at all.
 

SpeedoGuy

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I'm not trying to get people to love everyone, that will NEVER happen, but we can at the very least be respectful of others.

A worthy and noble sentiment but I want to explore it a bit, Osiris.

Just as you state its impossible to get everyone to love everyone, could it be just as unrealistic to ever expect people to treat each other respectfully? Isn't that just setting ourselves up for the same eventual disappointment?

We can model respectful behavior and hope that others follow it but might it be worthwhile to spend just as much time and energy also training ourselves to endure disrespect from others without becoming disillusioned or resentful or angry. ie I can't change the world but I can change myself.

Just a thought.
 

Osiris

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A worthy and noble sentiment but I want to explore it a bit, Osiris.

Just as you state its impossible to get everyone to love everyone, could it be just as unrealistic to ever expect people to treat each other respectfully? Isn't that just setting ourselves up for the same eventual disappointment?

We can model respectful behavior and hope that others follow it but might it be worthwhile to spend just as much time and energy also training ourselves to endure disrespect from others without becoming disillusioned or resentful or angry. ie I can't change the world but I can change myself.

Just a thought.

Have I ever told you I hate it when you are right? :biggrin1:

Very thoughtful and true my friend.
 

SpoiledPrincess

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We can all try and act respectfully but if someone is behaving like a pig ignoring them isn't always the answer, in fact if the majority ignore them they can see that as tacit approval in their twisted minds. There's no one answer we just have to play it by ear and use our people skills. Sometimes it's best ignored, other times a good old fashioned telling off is called for, sometimes with the best will in the world someone is going to practice their social inadequacy till the cows come home.
 

SpeedoGuy

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On thinking about it, perhaps it can be better phrased as: We sure aren't going to get everyone to "love" everyone else on this earth. Not if we define love as high as adoring admiration or even as low as chummy friendship. Nope, ain't gonna happen.

But perhaps if we defined "love," and some have argued this is what Jesus really meant, as not killing and maiming each other, then perhaps we might have some hope.
 

Guy-jin

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Honestly, I've seen precisely what you've mentioned quite a bit and it's just made me increasingly less interested in bothering with this forum, reminding me why it is I don't really bother with Internet forums in general.

In the real world, I'm polite to people, and generally people are polite back to me. There's the occasion when someone I see regularly is blatantly impolite, but it's exceedingly rare.

It's because in the real world, most people really do maintain a level of common decency. I think it probably has something to do with the fact that they'll have tangible consequences if they don't. I know some of the people I've seen that are consistently impolite are the ones that face no consequences--bus drivers in my area come to mind.

On the other hand, in Internet forums, generally people are quite vitriolic, sarcastic and nasty.

It's all quite John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad theory if you ask me.

Anyway, it's mostly been fun while it lasted, but any intellectual or even fluff conversation on the Internet usually ends up in an explosion of rudeness and hurt feelings that I'm just really tired of seeing.
 

B_cigarbabe

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It's the net and sometimes I think heat is easily interpreted as hate, if someone's passionate about what they're saying they can go a little overboard thinking just of what they want to say, not what effect it might have on other people.

Snoozan's post was excellent and although I try not to make personal attacks I also can't help retaliating or making a sarcy comment if someone's being a pain in the arse, but I don't think of this as being hateful in any way, we're only applying the same rules we'd apply in real life, it is only the net but why should any of us put up with crap on here that we wouldn't tolerate in real life.

Absolutely right on the money S.P.!
Why should we have to put up with the kind of behavior, folks exhibit
on this site,when we would never let them get away with said behavior, in the real world? I don't give two shits about the people who lately,think
I'm two faced, or a liar,because I've called them out as others did before me. No this thread isn't directed toward me,{yet!} but I have always called em' as I see em'. Stop sending me threats if you don't want them exposed to all. Ignore me and I'm likely to do the same.
But, Osiris, I just think a whole lot of of people ,just weren't well raised
by whomever. How can you act decently if youv'e never seen that at home,or from anyone around you. And yeah they are a few people that
I can honestly say I despise,not hate but close to it.
cigarbabe:saevil:
 

Osiris

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Absolutely right on the money S.P.!
Why should we have to put up with the kind of behavior, folks exhibit
on this site,when we would never let them get away with said behavior, in the real world? I don't give two shits about the people who lately,think
I'm two faced, or a liar,because I've called them out as others did before me. No this thread isn't directed toward me,{yet!} but I have always called em' as I see em'. Stop sending me threats if you don't want them exposed to all. Ignore me and I'm likely to do the same.
But, Osiris, I just think a whole lot of of people ,just weren't well raised
by whomever. How can you act decently if youv'e never seen that at home,or from anyone around you. And yeah they are a few people that
I can honestly say I despise,not hate but close to it.
cigarbabe:saevil:

I don't ever see this thread relating to you and you know I have a lot of respect for you cigarbabe. I find myself saying that a lot about a lot of people on this board. I guess I was raised that if you show respect, you get it back. You say that some didn't get the training at home. Then let me share four truths about life my mother and grandmother (May they rest peacefully) taught me:

1) You reap what you sow.
2) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
3) Some people got no home training.
4) Be careful what you do and where because you never know who knows me.

That last one carries a lot of weight. How many times have we seen members say "So and so found me on this site and I have to becareful of..." I guess my point is that this is the internet, but it does (at odd times) cross our real lives.

Karma is not only a bitch, she crops up in the oddest places.:wink:
 

Guy-jin

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No one ever flames at me. What am I, chopped liver?

This is possibly the most concise response I've ever seen you give. What's the matter, is your random word generator on the fritz?

(That good enough for you or should I throw in some curse words to spice it up a bit? :biggrin1:)
 

Principessa

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No one ever flames at me. What am I, chopped liver?

You are hardly chopped liver! :eek: As I'm sure you're aware being flamed is not a goal to which you should aspire. :tongue::wink:

I guess the problem is that your posts are far too intelligent and clearly stated. You have an annoying tendency to actually include facts and current data to suppport your opinions. Furthermore, unlike myself you are able to refrain from telling people to stop being a fucktard or mentioning that they should S.T.F.U.

Clearly this is a flaw in your character which you must remedy at once. :tongue::biggrin1: j/k
 

DC_DEEP

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No one ever flames at me. What am I, chopped liver?
No, you just don't ever seem to give anyone any ammunition.

I've watched you for a long time, and I seem to recall only one instance in which a troll made you lose (a tiny bit of) your self-control. I don't remember which troll it was, but I do recall being super-surprised to see you tell it, "You are an idiot" or something to that effect.

Oh, and I like chopped liver.
 

frizzle

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I've never been under the impression of being flamed (unless being called a troll counts), I've only been in heated arguements, but for the majority of the time, I respect that other person's views, no matter how warped I think it is. I expect the same in return.

Although I have lost my self on a couple of occasions when the person in question has posted dribble. Usually people who's replys are along the lines of "OMG UR AN IDIOT".

Gah.