What if: alternative to jail for not paying taxes

wallyj84

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In the current system, if you don't pay taxes you go to jail. I don't have much of a problem with this, except for the fact that I think jail is a harsh punishment for a non-violent crime. Shouldn't prison be reserved for only violent criminals? Shouldn't we stop jailing tax evaders and find other ways to punish them?

So what if instead of jailing people we, for lack of a better word, governmentally ostracized them? By that I mean they would be barred from using any services provided by the government, local or federal, that they owe money to.

Here is how I think it would work. Let's say Steve decides to not pay his taxes. Like none of them. Federal or state and after being warned by the appropriate authorities and still refusing to pay, the government would publically list him as being a non payer and shut him off from most government services. For example, the government would no longer offer him police protection, nor would he have any court protections or be allowed to use the court system in any capacity. He could still act as a defendant, but he could not bring up a suit against someone else. Obviously any government programs he is on or using would be immediately suspended. He would still be allowed to have freedom of movement, so he could go through customs and use roads, but everything else would be cut off.

What do you guys think? Would this be a workable alternative to jail for tax evaders?
 

keenobserver

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In the current system, if you don't pay taxes you go to jail. I don't have much of a problem with this, except for the fact that I think jail is a harsh punishment for a non-violent crime. Shouldn't prison be reserved for only violent criminals? Shouldn't we stop jailing tax evaders and find other ways to punish them?

So what if instead of jailing people we, for lack of a better word, governmentally ostracized them? By that I mean they would be barred from using any services provided by the government, local or federal, that they owe money to.

Here is how I think it would work. Let's say Steve decides to not pay his taxes. Like none of them. Federal or state and after being warned by the appropriate authorities and still refusing to pay, the government would publically list him as being a non payer and shut him off from most government services. For example, the government would no longer offer him police protection, nor would he have any court protections or be allowed to use the court system in any capacity. He could still act as a defendant, but he could not bring up a suit against someone else. Obviously any government programs he is on or using would be immediately suspended. He would still be allowed to have freedom of movement, so he could go through customs and use roads, but everything else would be cut off.

What do you guys think? Would this be a workable alternative to jail for tax evaders?

You have to commit fraud on an truly epic level before you go to jail for not paying taxes. Some years ago my uncle decided that paying taxes was unconstitutional and he set himself up as a church and stopped withholding from his and his families paychecks. The IRS let this go on for three years - there is a reason they pick three years, then they swopped in and shut him down. The seized everything that was sizeable including paychecks and future paychecks. In return for telling the IRS who showed him how to run this scam (the Universal Life Church) they "allowed" him to stay out of jail, put him on a payment plan at 9 % interest and seized most of the paychecks of him, his wife and his kids (who were in college, working part time). It was much easier for the IRS to do this than to disconnect government services one by one or "shame" him. In today's climate not paying taxes does not bring shame. The idea that he and his family could be prevented from using police services - which are funded locally for the most part is just offensive on an epic level. Someone committing a tax crime can be brought to justice far more effectively now than under this proposal.
 
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IntactMale

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I'm not a fan of putting people in jail, especially for non-violent crimes, but I'm not sure this plan helps anyone.

First, I don't like the idea of letting a person get murdered, or have their house burn down, because they didn't pay taxes and so we have to withhold police and fire services. That seems pretty barbaric to me, and I would hope that people aren't willing to be so barbaric.

Secondly, this make the person unviable, which doesn't help anyone. I would rather have someone who skipped their taxes for a few years doing something productive and paying into the system, even if they did screw everyone over for awhile. That seems a lot better than having people ostracized from society living in our country, who are unable to work and desperate, and eventually have no incentive to obey any laws. I see this ending with either the person who didn't pay taxes killing others for their benefit, or society killing them because they are too dangerous. Jail seems preferable to me, and I can't think of too many scenarios in which I would say that.

I'm not sure why this plan would be preferable to something like forced labor. At least society gets some benefit from someone pushed into forced labor. I think forced labor would be a pretty terrible idea (and its already happening in jails in the US anyways), just playing devil's advocate.
 
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Perados

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In the current system, if you don't pay taxes you go to jail. I don't have much of a problem with this, except for the fact that I think jail is a harsh punishment for a non-violent crime. Shouldn't prison be reserved for only violent criminals? Shouldn't we stop jailing tax evaders and find other ways to punish them?

So what if instead of jailing people we, for lack of a better word, governmentally ostracized them? By that I mean they would be barred from using any services provided by the government, local or federal, that they owe money to.

Here is how I think it would work. Let's say Steve decides to not pay his taxes. Like none of them. Federal or state and after being warned by the appropriate authorities and still refusing to pay, the government would publically list him as being a non payer and shut him off from most government services. For example, the government would no longer offer him police protection, nor would he have any court protections or be allowed to use the court system in any capacity. He could still act as a defendant, but he could not bring up a suit against someone else. Obviously any government programs he is on or using would be immediately suspended. He would still be allowed to have freedom of movement, so he could go through customs and use roads, but everything else would be cut off.

What do you guys think? Would this be a workable alternative to jail for tax evaders?
The impotent Part is "freedom of movement" I would move to a neighbour state that speaks the same language. ;)

And what program should those be on where tax evasion really pays off?
So you think Bill Gates needs the police? People like him don't need the police and barely use public roads... They can fly.
In total it would pay off to not pay tax. They already have all they need and to avoid to pay tax would pay off for them.

The only critical thing could be the thing about the courts... This would leave them quite helpless, if they need it. But I doubt it would be legal in any way. It's a fundamental right and way harder as to put someone in jail.
But assume it would be done, what about companies? If I don't pay tax but own a company, is this company allowed to go to court.


----

Just read the other posts...
At what amount you go to jail in the USA? In Germany it has to be millions.
If it's way less in the USA, my argumentation isn't so helpful if people with less income don't pay tax.
 

twoton

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You couldn't withhold police or fire, because the benefits extend beyond Steve and to the community around him. This is why fire and police are public services in the first place.
It would be tough to withhold services from him if he had a family, because the services would likely benefit his family as well. (This is why economic sanctions are frequently useless means of applying diplomatic pressure on rogue governments.)
 
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JulieInNaplesFL

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Not sure you can go to jail for not paying taxes. Seems I read somewhere in the Federalist papers or some goooobernment papers or somewhere like this they can only jail you for tax evasion and that is different than just not paying taxes. I may be wrong but I am rarely. :)
 

wallyj84

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Not sure you can go to jail for not paying taxes. Seems I read somewhere in the Federalist papers or some goooobernment papers or somewhere like this they can only jail you for tax evasion and that is different than just not paying taxes. I may be wrong but I am rarely. :)

Oh you're wrong about a great number of things.
 

keenobserver

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Well, it kills me to say this but Julie is on to something here. There is a difference between evading taxes illegally, knowingly and not paying a tax you did not know about. A person who honestly did not know a tax was due is usually not ever charged with a crime, so like Hillary, no jail. Also while we always hear "ignorance of the law is no excuse" the exception is tax law in the U.S. If the IRS feels you have underpaid and you convince them you did it unknowingly or were truly ignorant of a specific law, they forgive you pretty easily - but of course the tax and interest is still due.