What is "Forcible Rape"?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Industrialsize, Feb 2, 2011.

  1. Industrialsize

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    As you may know, Federal funding for abortion is prohibited by language in the "Hyde Amendment" EXCEPT in cases of rape, incest, and the health of the mother. There is a new bill, introduced by Republicans, in the House called the "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act.
    It is designed to make permanent some existing bans on federal funding for abortion, like the Hyde Amendment, which prevents Medicaid from covering abortion except in the cases of rape or incest or for the life or health of the mother. The bill also prohibits employers and the self-insured from using widely-available tax breaks for buying private health insurance, if that insurance also covers abortion.
    But the widest criticism of the bill comes in its exemptions for rape -- provisions that would allow federal money or private insurance to be used to cover an abortion. H.R. 3 says those provisions would kick in only in cases of forcible rape, a distinction from other forms rape of that is largely undefined but seems to suggest that a rape that doesn't include violence wouldn't count. The bill would also limit the incest exemption to women under the age of 18 -- meaning a victim of incest who was legally allowed to vote wouldn't have her abortion covered by Medicaid and would likely have more limited access to private insurance than she does today.
    What the fuck is the difference beyween "rape" and "forcible rape"? The amount of questions this raises is mind-boggling. Would a rape victim have to go to court to "prove" that her rape was "forcible" in order for Federal Funds to be used? Will someone actually determine if a woman fought back hard enough? I believe that ALL rapes are an act of Violence and not an act of Sex. This bill could have only been written by a man and I hope it goes down in Flames.

    Here's the Library of Congress page for the bill:
    Bill Summary & Status - 112th Congress (2011 - 2012) - H.R.3 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
     
  2. Industrialsize

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    I still haven't wrapped my head around what the Republicans are trying to achieve by only allowing Federal Funds to pay for Abortions in the case of incest for people ONLY under the age of 18. So if you are 19 and your Father rapes you and it's determined it wasn't "forcible" you are out of luck?
     
  3. vince

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    Are they trying to draw a distinction between rape and statutory rape? Statutory rape being sex between an adult and a minor.

    IMO, rape is rape and it is an act of violence. It's interesting and sad that folks who whine and rail about "big government", loss of rights, intrusion by government into their private lives and it's role in health care reform, are so quick to use their power to interfere in women's right to access a legal procedure.
     
  4. Kotchanski

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    I can only assume that by "Forcible Rape" they mean rape where there is very clear evidence that it wasn't a consensual act regardless of any charges or convictions which may or may not have taken place with regards to those involved.

    I can further only assume that their move is essentially to make it near impossible to obtain any form of financial assistance when it comes to getting an abortion, though if I'm correct in my assumptions, they'll obviously wrap it up in a nice little "We don't want women crying rape just to get rid of unwanted kids" bow.
     
  5. Industrialsize

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    No they're not. This is about Federal Funding of abortion, mainly medicaid. A woman can still pay for her own abortion. Here is the exact text from the bill which states the ONLY cases where Federal Funds can be used for abortion:

    (1) if the pregnancy occurred because the pregnant female was the subject of an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest;
    (2)in the case where the pregnant female suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the pregnant female in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself.




    On reading it, a 'Non Forcible" Statutory Rape would NOT be covered unless it involved incest.
     
  6. midlifebear

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    "Forcible Rape" sounds like old conservative christianist white man talk for lording it over women and subjecting them to remain second class citizens -- if even that high of stature as long as they remain pregnant, barefoot, and stay in the kitchen.
     
  7. SilverTrain

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    Having no background or specific knowledge of legislative intent, etc., I'd agree with Vince that "forcible rape" is to be distinguished from statutory rape. A statutory rape can occur even when the parties have consensual sex.
     
  8. Industrialsize

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    Let me try to be more clear. This Republican sponsored bill wants to change language, found in the Hyde Amednment, that has been the law of the land for decades and limits the use of Federal funds for abortion.

    The current language:
    if the pregnancy occurred because the pregnant female was the subject of an act of rape or, an act of incest;

    This bill changes it to:
    if the pregnancy occurred because the pregnant female was the subject of an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest;

    I find the new language quite troubling in its implications.
     
  9. Hoss

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    There's forced rape, which includes date rape, drugging the victim and raping them as well as several more nonconsensual sexual encounters and then there's the legal jumble with statutory rape where there are 2 willing persons.

    As far as the courtroom proof that exists already when there's a claiim of rape. The problem is that the judiicial system doesn't work quickly enough that a rape viictim would be able to get an abortion.

    They may be thinking that at 19 you're an adult and the incest at that age is by consent. I'm not saying that I agree with that thinking, I don't but it may be theiir liine of thinking.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Forcible rape? Such double talk. The definition of rape is clear - a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse against another person without that person's consent. If the sex is against another person's consent, then it's rape. Plain & simple. The only real obvious exception to this would be statutory rape, which is an adult having sex with a minor regardless if it was consensual or not between the two parties.

    And then there's the statistics regarding rape victims in this country:
    According to United States Department of Justice document Criminal Victimization in the United States, there were overall 191,670 victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2005. Only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported to the police. 1 of 6 U.S. women has experienced an attempted or completed rape. Some types of rape are excluded from official reports altogether, because a significant number of rapes go unreported even when they are included as reportable rapes, and also because a significant number of rapes reported to the police do not advance to prosecution. U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics estimated that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male. Denov states that societal responses to the issue of female perpetrators of sexual assault "point to a widespread denial of women as potential sexual aggressors that could work to obscure the true dimensions of the problem."

    From 2000-2005, 59% of rapes were not reported to law enforcement. One factor relating to this is misconception that most rapes are committed by strangers. In reality, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 38% of victims were raped by a friend or acquaintance, 28% by "an intimate" and 7% by another relative, and 26% were committed by a stranger to the victim. About four out of ten sexual assaults take place at the victim's own home. Drug use, especially alcohol, is frequently involved in rape. In 47% of rapes, both the victim and the perpetrator had been drinking. In 17%, only the perpetrator had been. 7% of the time, only the victim had been drinking. Rapes where neither the victim nor the perpetrator had been drinking were 29% of all rapes. Contrary to widespread belief, rape outdoors is rare. Over two thirds of all rapes occur in someone's home. 30.9% occur in the perpetrators' homes, 26.6% in the victims' homes and 10.1% in homes shared by the victim and perpetrator. 7.2% occur at parties, 7.2% in vehicles, 3.6% outdoors and 2.2% in bars. Despite a decline of 60% since 1993, the US still has a relatively high rate of rape when compared to other developed countries.
    - source

    The legislation proposed is extremely shortsighted because it attaches itself to the assumption that adult victims somehow know how to avoid being raped when the mass majority of cases involve two adults to begin with. It's a cheap way to take a shot at the abortion issue while using the victims of a heinous crime as rhetorical punching bags. I don't buy it.
     
  11. nudeyorker

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    Quickly researching this... The term "forcible rape" actually has no set meaning; legal definitions of "force" vary widely. And every survivor who finds herself in need of abortion funding will have to submit her rape for government approval.... sadly I think this is what it means.
     
  12. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    I know exactly what they're up to. As a sop to their wingnut base, Republican politicans are specifically trying to eliminate federal funding for abortions stemming from all forms of non-violent rape, except for incestuous rape of a minor. This means that any rape where there is no physical evidence of resistance to the sexual act would not qualify.

    What's most disturbing about the Republican rewrite of the Hyde Amendment is twofold...

    1) Minors who are non-violently raped by a non-family member would no longer qualify for federal aid. So, if a young girl does as they are taught and does not violently resist an adult attacker, then she will be forced to bear the child from that rape if she cannot otherwise afford the cost of aborting it... This is particularly heinous because girls are taught not to resist if an attacker appears he will turn violent, because it is widely known that resistance in such situations is how women get beat up and killed during rapes. This law would clearly encourage girls to violently resist at great risk to their own well being, knowing that if she got pregnant from the rape, she would be stuck bearing the baby.

    2) An 18 year old high school student who has been raped by a family member will no longer qualify for federal aid, unless she makes sure that she gets beat up during the rape.

    Or in other words, Republicans are so wrapped up in their narrow agenda that they are officially cheering the prospect of American children being raped, and being forced to bear the child or go get an after-school job to pay for it. Here's to hoping the child is of legal working age...


    But then knowing Republican logic, their next step would be to use this as justification to lower the legal working age for children back down to 12 or maybe 10 years old. That way, any child from a poor family who is non-violently raped will be able to go get a job to pay for the abortion. And that's 100% pure Republican ideology right there; "your problems are your own, fix them yourself and leave me and my wallet out of it."... Now including children who have been raped.
     
    #12 B_talltpaguy, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
  13. D_Rosalind Mussell

    D_Rosalind Mussell New Member

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    I fear this verbiage will create a loopholes for offenders to jump through.

    Does this mean that if a woman is so terrified that she doesn't attempt to fight her attacker off that it won't be considered forcible? Or how about an abused woman that is afraid of her husband but can't fight back, but he knows his wife does not consent? I find the term "forcible rape" to be redundant as it is, but to use this verbiage in any law sets a precedent for what's to come. It's also insulting to me as a woman that has experienced sexual assault. Just when the hell did rape ever become a fucking choice? This language was created to cut public health funding to a group of people that need it most and I can't express how disturbing I find this.
     
  14. BigInBellevue

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    The following is from MoveOn. Planned Parenthood and others also have assessments of this rotten GOP bill. May I suggest you add your voice to the 360,000 who have signed the petition so far? If enough people express their outrage, it might be possible to stop. But if you do nothing, Republicans will have their way.

    RE: Redefining Rape
    ...
    From:"Kat Barr, MoveOn.org Political Action" <moveon-help@list.moveon.org>

    [FONT=Arial, Verdana, sans-serif]Incredible! Since yesterday, over 360,000 people have signed our petition demanding Congress oppose the GOP legislation that could redefine rape.

    If we get to half a million signers, we'll hand-deliver all the signatures during an upcoming hearing on the bill&#8212;right in front of the news media and their cameras. Can you help us reach our goal by sharing the petition with your friends, family, and co-workers?

    http://www.moveon.org/r?r=205956&id=25994-2930548-PmDO5ux&t=1

    Thanks for all you do.
    &#8211;Kat, Marika, Michael, Daniel, and the rest of the team

    P.S. You can also just pass the text below on by email:
    I just heard about a horrible GOP bill that could redefine rape and set women's rights back by decades.

    Here's the deal: Right now, federal dollars can't be used for abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or when the woman's life is in danger. But the bill, introduced by Republican Congressman Chris Smith, would narrow that use to "cases of 'forcible' rape but not statutory or coerced rape."

    As far too many women know, bruises and broken bones do not define rape&#8212;a lack of consent does. This bill is scary&#8212;so I signed a petition telling Congress to stand up and oppose the bill. Can you join me at the link below?

    MoveOn.org Political Action: Redefining Rape?
    Want to support our work? We're entirely funded by our 5 million members&#8212;no corporate contributions, no big checks from CEOs. And our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. Chip in here.
    [SIZE=-2]PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION, MoveOn.org Political Action: Democracy in Action. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
     
    #14 BigInBellevue, Feb 3, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2011
  15. Industrialsize

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    Bingo! Here's an Op-Ed that I happen to agree with:

    "Did you hear how the Republicans are currently seeking to enflame their most fearful, ignorant base by way of igniting the abortion fight all over again? Yep.
    How will they do it? By attempting to redefine rape, of course, so as to make it seem less, you know, rape-y.
    The GOP would hereby like to inform all women and especially younger girls that, unless physical force was involved, it wasn't actually rape. Therefore, if you got knocked up, the Repubs ain't paying for no slutty abortion, y'hear? Drugged, incest, statutory? Too terrified to struggle? Too bad for you, kiddo. The Republican Party hates you, and your terrifying vagina."


    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/02/02/notes020211.DTL&ao=2

     
    #15 Industrialsize, Feb 3, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2011
  16. B_crackoff

    B_crackoff New Member

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    Incest & rape are not the same. That's why the exemption is for minors. You also seem to believe that incest is totally male led, which isn't true, & pretty offensive. Incest isn't even a crime in France!

    Clearly though, there's a good case to abort any consensual or not incest related pregnancy - though why they can't pay some of the cost is beyond me.
     
  17. Drifterwood

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    Do you know what an abortion costs in the US, Crackers? Do you think that welfare and minimum wage is going to cover any significant part of it?

    Welcome back to the world of backstreet abortions, coathangers and bottles of gin. Oh and haemmorhage.

    Rape reporting amongst the poor will have to go up, though if you wait until you know you are pregnant, you almost certainly couldn't demonstrate force.

    And false accusations will go up.
     
  18. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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  19. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    Sex between an adult and a child is automatically rape in this country, consensual or not. In many US states, 'incestuous rape' is a subset of 'rape' and requires tougher sentencing.
     
  20. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    Why shouldn't the perp be paying for it? (if/when known)...
     
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