What is intimacy?

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by ConstantComment, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. ConstantComment

    ConstantComment New Member

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    Give an example of or lack thereof.

    I am thinking about this as I was speaking to a friend about my current relationship.

    HE and I have worked out some things as I was concerned that he was still pursuing a friendship with an ex. I was telling my friend that one thing that annoyed me was the fact that he was telling that he was going to take a trip with a friend. Not sure how direct I wanted to be at that point, I didn't ask whether he was taking a trip with her but I was annoyed that he didn't tell me directly with whom he was traveling without my having to ask.

    I did ask whether this was an American friend and he said, yes. And then I asked whether this friend would be coming from the US. He said, yes, again.

    When I decided that this would not be the way to carry on an exclusive relationship with someone, I told him how I felt about that earlier conversation....it was like pulling teeth.

    I surmised with my friend whether my guy was trying to set up a baseline: that is, whenever he wants to do something without me, try to avoid that part of the discussion......even if on that occasion, the person he's going with would be ok, like a male friend. My friend said that those kinds of habits in a relationship diminish intimacy. I never thought of it that way.

    What are your experiences?
     
    #1 ConstantComment, Jul 12, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011
  2. helgaleena

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    "Intimacy" to me means sharing, both information and physical caressing. Sex without intimacy is generally perceived as less than human because it is reducing the partner to a convenience without thoughts or feelings that are worth consideration.

    When it comes to the social life, who the sexual partner sees in non-sexual situations, you are going to have to decide how you both want to handle it. Do you want to double-check your social calendars with each other to do more than schedule 'intimacy time'? Is it permissible to have social relationships with people who could also become sexual partners?

    I had a very jealous ex. He reacted very harshly to the idea of me inviting former boyfriends to our wedding, as the fact that I was even still friendly to an ex was inconceivable to him. He thought it was a way to hurt his feelings! I should have known it was a warning of things to come.

    By all means, get this clear between you ASAP, once it is clear in your own heart how you want to be treated.
     
  3. ConstantComment

    ConstantComment New Member

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    ****He reacted very harshly to the idea of me inviting former boyfriends to our wedding,****

    Did he have a chance to get to know them before your wedding?
     
  4. Phil Ayesho

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    It is a form of trust and a form of service.

    Intimacy is the combination of both the desire and ability to understand, accept, and accommodate one another's emotional and intellectual situation.
    To recognize that what you accept about her, is no more and no less than what she must accept about you.

    It can mean a man understanding that women need to feel emotionally secure, and, out of love and care, striving to not do things that may make her feel insecure... as well as actively do those things that make her feel more secure...

    For example... When I am out in the world, I send my girl a text to tell her I have arrived safely, or that I am on my way home... I do not do this with any sense that she demands it, or that it is required... I do it because I can not help but be aware that she wonders about me during the day... wonders if I am safe, and, more deeply.. wonders if I think about her, and her feelings...
    To call, or text, and touch base, demonstrates to her that I do think about her, that I am considerate of her need to feel that those she loves are okay, wherever they are.

    For a woman, Intimacy may mean understanding that a man wants to feel desired, and making that small extra effort that shows him she finds him attractive and admirable...
    Not out of obligation or demand... but generously, with true joy in the giving.


    Intimacy is not just passion, more than mere heat... it is affinity;
    liking someone so much that their joys and sorrows matter more to you than your own...

    And most importantly, Intimacy is when both people in a relationship have this same feeling toward each other.

    If only one has it... then the person without it can use the other, can manipulate them... and generally, they will.



    Men who have "issues" with feeling controlled by the fact that their partner has insecurities or needs, who feel the need to keep part of themselves aloof, to have time with the "boys" where they do not need to concern themselves with their wife or girlfriend...
    Men who refuse to be forthcoming about their friendships or other relationships... are men who will be largely incapable of intimacy.


    If you find yourself wondering if you have intimacy in your relationship, then you don't.

    And, most of the time, absence of intimacy is your own fault... either because you are unable to really trust and to give... or because you tend to choose people who will be unable to trust and to give.
     
  5. fangirl

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    in my experience, acting like that does not diminsh intimacy. instead it diminishes expectations.

    by giving you as little information as possible about something that specific and easy, be it good (like hanging with the boys) or bad (like hanging with someone who would make you angry) he is sowing confusion in your relationship. the confusion keeps you quiet and allows him to retain more autonomy in his own personal life. it makes you tired because you have to fight for every little piece of information and has the potential to make you feel guilty when you raise a big fuss over "nothing" situations, a guilt that can be used in later altercations to push you down and back you up.

    it also makes you second guess your own judgement and dissuades you from asking him for more information in different situations. why? because people dont chase after things they dont feel like they are entitiled to, things that they expect others to give when they are in a "committed" relatioship. things like monogomy, but also things like the right to choose ones friends.

    now i dont know your guy or your relatioship in detail, but i dont like the way that is going. someone who is comfortable with the boundaries in thier relatioships, who is comfortable with friending exs, is also comfortable with sharing that fact with their new signifigant other. just check out helgaleenas post. she actually invited her exs to her wedding. that involves alot of openness and understanding of self. she did not try to hide the exs, or slip them in, or run away to hang out with them. she had nothign to hide.

    your boy, on the other hand, does. he is managing your emotions and lowering your expectaions about what to expect from him in an relationship.

    neither of them or good, but the situation is especially bad if you are the giver in the relationship. if you voluntairy tell him where you are and who yoru with or if he gets angry when you demand the same level of autonomy that he demands from you... i.e. leaving off without telling him who you are with.

    he may or may not be a cheater, gosh for all i know he may just want to hide the fact that he wants different from the relatioship as you or he just wants to avoid a fight. but the way he is doing it is bad. it is selfish. and it usually only works on good people. so spare yourself the heartache. find out what you want and draw yourself a hard line. sit the boy down and tell them what they are and demand that they be met. and if is actions dont come up to par, drop the son of a bitch. let him grow up and damage someone else. already he has you questioning what is intamacy. dont let alter any more of who you are cause there is WAY to much dick in the world to settle for one attached to a bad situation. and your boy, my dear, is a bad situation.

    so dont worry about what other peole consider intamacy, just worry about your own needs and what YOU consider intimacy, cause there is alot of deviation on
    "normal". heck just look at this sight. all of these forks or some kinda normal and none of them are exactly the same.
     
  6. umami_tsunami

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    I think of intimacy as crossing an invisible, loosely defined border in your emotional landscape into a vast "other region" of connection and rapport with another person. It's beyond trust. It's allowing your emotional guard to fall and driving over your emotional "speed bumps" because you want so badly to have what you feel reciprocated, that the consequences will be worth it.

    It starts with the hope that the intensity and depth of your desire for another will be reflected like two mirrors facing each other. You feel that emotion reflected and you want to send it back equally and never stop. It's a willingness, and an expectation for the other to be honest and vulnerable without fear of judgement.

    There is nothing as intimate as shared vulnerability. For me, intimacy is rarer than love.

    If you are not first at the level of trust, then it's not going to get to the stage of intimacy.
     
    #6 umami_tsunami, Jul 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  7. Intrigue

    Intrigue New Member

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    Intimacy
    into me I see

    Sorry, had it stuck in my head. Dang love guru.
    Agree with Helga. This seems like a red flag to me. Just my opinion.

    I also like Phils description. I do those same things for my wife, and I never understood them till now. I also realize that I must not have been very good at intimacy before... I rarely ever checked in with anyone. Ever.
     
  8. cougarm4m

    cougarm4m New Member

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    I agree with tsunami, trust is the foundation for intimacy, and intimacy is the expression of mature love. Unfortunately, there is a lack of trust in your relationship.

    Personally, I (now) refuse to be in a relationship unless there is a free flow of open and honest communication--it's impossible to build trust and intimacy otherwise.
     
  9. helgaleena

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    He did not want to do that :sad: He also ASSUMED that I would not want to meet any ex of his, because he loathed them all himself... now he loathes me and I am another ex. Too bad for him.
     
    #9 helgaleena, Jul 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  10. molotovmuffin

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    I hate when people do that...if you're going to do something with someone then name them. Don't hide by saying "a friend".
     
  11. galaxus

    galaxus Member

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    Phil Ayesho summed it up best.
    Very nice post!
     
  12. Phil Ayesho

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    Interesting... You make this statement, then go on to a comprehensively detailed description of men incapable of intimacy, committing actions that destroy intimacy...


    A word on expectations...

    Expectations, met, are the foundation of true intimacy.

    Like it or not, whether you realize it or not, you Have expectations of a mate...

    We all do.

    And part of emotional maturity and real rapport is the realization and acceptance that you have a right to expect certain things of your mate, and that she or he has a right to expect certain things of you.

    Love is an economy... There is an exchange... You are looking for something in a mate, and so are they.

    Do you intend to give of those things grudgingly? Keep a ledger?

    Or do you give of those things joyfully... Because this other deserves your all?



    Committing to one woman did not strike me blind...
    I still can see all the lovely and striking ladies in the world...
    But when I am out with my lady, I do not turn head to look at any other... Because she is the focus of all my desire, and because no other woman is more interesting than she.
    I do not flirt with other women in any circumstance... She will never witness that, nor hear about it from some third party... Because, in exchange for the delight and love and companionship she freely offers me, I freely offer her that sense that I am all for her.

    I do not do this to avoid 'trouble'... That is the mindset of a man whom resents attachment and intimacy... I do so selflessly, because I know it would bruise her to see me gaze at another. To see me flirt.

    It is such a small gift to give... And reaps such rich reward in her confident smile and secure embrace.


    Wanting that... Her joy, her happiness... Being mindful of what self absorbed behaviors might cause her an injury, unintended... This is the mindset, the emotional landscape of a person who CAN be intimate... Who seeks it.

    Intimacy depends upon understanding your own responsibility for meeting the expectations of the person you adore.
    And she understanding the same.

    Limiting what your mate can expect from you is building a wall.

    You give freely what is truly needed
    that which matters.
     
    #12 Phil Ayesho, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
  13. ConstantComment

    ConstantComment New Member

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    ****And, most of the time, absence of intimacy is your own fault... either because you are unable to really trust and to give... or because you tend to choose people who will be unable to trust and to give.****

    I don't like demanding things and I try to give someone a chance. Particularly when they claim to want one. I don't like blaming the victim type remarks. The other things that you have written do make sense.
     
  14. helgaleena

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    CC, I know you will follow your extraordinary common sense to a position of fairness and mutual comfort in this situation you are in. It might be that he is building a wall in an attempt to keep you from becoming indispensable to him. And it may be that you do the same, as you refer to him as 'FB', rather than SO. You both will decide how much freedom to allow each other.
     
  15. ConstantComment

    ConstantComment New Member

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    I refer to him as my boyfriend. You must be thinking of the guy I kicked to the curb last August. (he has contacted me lately which I have ignored but have written about here). I just met my boyfriend's parents as they were in town visiting.

    I am quite sensitive to this as I had similar problems with my husband. ie. his giving preference to others outside of our relationship/family. He also told me that when I tell him directly what I would like, it set up a challenge for him to do the exact opposite. Funny, how when we were just dating, I would say my preferences directly and he would make the effort to please and make me feel secure. Then of course, he changed when we got married.

    I really don't want to find myself married to someone and I am playing second fiddle to his friends and other acquaintances.
     
    #15 ConstantComment, Jul 14, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
  16. helgaleena

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    You're right, I made that confusion! sorry. Good on valuing yourself. I could do with more of it.
     
  17. Intrigue

    Intrigue New Member

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    You are my guru. Seriously. I'm not perfect. And when I find myself drifting from what I want to be I often think like you it seems. I just love your posts. They seem to speak to a level of me I aim to acheive. I may not be the most giving of partners, but I have learned what it is to give and how rewarding it can be. More so than taking. Its words like yours that inspire people. People like me. Not much more I can say, just had to get that out there. Your posts always move me and remind me of how I think, act, love or attempt to when I find myself lacking.
     
  18. Phil Ayesho

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    Sorry... but in this you are wrong... and as long as you persist in imagining that you are being victimized, you will persist in being a victim.

    Particularly for women... who are the ones who decide with whom they will mate, to which man's approach they will respond... if you are constantly finding yourself embroiled with men who can not give and who can not offer intimacy... that is not the fault of the men, who were that way when you picked them... it is the direct consequence of Who you are attracted to...

    Change that, and everything else will change, too.

    I do not blame the victim... my perspective is one of empowerment... it puts intimacy within your grasp by making you stop and consider that, just perhaps, you should examine your attraction to 'bad boys', or men who are aloof, or who are narcissistic.
    Why are you falling for jerks? Is it an issue with your father figure? A misplaced sense that danger is equivalent to passion? a feeling that your love will redeem them?

    The great tragedy of most peoples love lives is that they tend to respond to people who are bad for them. Who do not elevate them, or bring out the best in them. Or who simply are not really compatible.
    I know a guy, been single for 30 years... funny, and smart, and good looking, but as dull as dishwater... but who is only attracted to vivacious, outgoing women.
    Of course, these women find him boring.... and the women who do like him? who have literally thrown themselves at him? They are the kind who could be perfectly content cuddling with him on the couch and watching pixar movies all night... which is actually what he likes to do... but he doesn't want them...

    Whose fault is that? the women he chases who turn him down? The women who are perfect for his disposition that he will not give a chance?

    No... he is doomed solely because he can not understand what kind of person would be happy with him... and that he would be happy with in the long run.

    I have watched as men I know to be deep, giving and loving souls, get shot down by women who complain there are no good men left... while these same women get all twitterpated over the aloof womanizer who thinks of women as utilities....

    It is sad... these men who seek women who can not find them attractive... and women who can not see these men as attractive... but not as sad as the women who hook up with men that can not offer what they want, and men who hook up with women who can not offer what they want.


    You are not being victimized by the people you date... you are choosing the people you date. You are being victimized by the choices you make.

    Choose differently, and change your life.

    that is not blaming the victim... that is handing you the keys to a better love and a better life.




    As to making demands.... I did not use the word demands... demands are selfish, petulant, and onerous.

    Expectations are not something you demand, they are the things that you are looking for in a relationship that matter to its happiness and success.
    Its not expecting your mate to put the toothpaste cap back on...
    If that is the kind of thing that disrupts your relationship.... then you have issues far worse than picking the wrong mate.

    For example, I expect kindness.

    i can not DEMAND kindness. If they are not kind, ordering them will not make them moreso...
    Further... kindness is not something my mate should ever have to ask for... the onus is upon ME to recognize that I OWE her kindness... that it is essential, and not something for which she should ever even have to voice her need.


    I expect understanding... is my mate does not understand me in a light that reflects well upon me, then how can we even communicate?

    Do I demand understanding? Or do I look for someone who understands me, effortlessly?

    Most important of all... is to understand your own expectations, that you might understand that your mate expect the sam things... ( with minor variations)


    The only substantive difference between men and women in their expectations of a mate is that women seek security. (be that emotional, physical, or material... or some combination thereof) and Men seek desire.

    Men... you want a happy wife? do nothing that might threaten her sense of security in your affection, strength, and provision... and DO everything you can think of to increase that sense in her of being secure.
    in short... BE the better man than you can envision.

    Women... you want a happy husband? Demonstrate to him that you find him admirable and desirable... that you welcome his touch, his embrace... and that you find him to be a good man.


    But first of all... both men and women... know yourself, and look for a person who meshes well with the person you really are... both your strengths, and your failings.

    That is not being a victim or making demands... because you are not seeking to change a person who matches you from the start, and you are not suffering when the mate you choose offers you what you need without even being asked.
     
  19. B_subgirrl

    B_subgirrl New Member

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    I disagree with this part. It may be true in many cases, but certainly not all.

    Other than that, great post!
     
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