What Is It With Americans?

agnslz

Loved Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Posts
4,668
Media
0
Likes
537
Points
333
Daverock said:
What I posted was not my opinion it was merely a suggested possibility. I do however understand where you are coming from with your thoughts on Japan.
I know!:smile: I'm in no way trying to say that "all is well" in America, I'm just saying that around the world there are places much like here. With people whose attitudes (on sex and the like) are like most Americans.

What is your understanding on censorship of TV etc in Europe? Just interested in your perception from a US point of view.
I'm sure I don't know exactly, but I'd say more liberal than those in the U.S. Here, on HBO, there was a series called Shock Video and it showed alot of nudity and sexual stuff from commercials and television shows in Europe and Australia esp. I'm not sure if they were shown on 'regular' TV or on premium channels but I know nothing like what I saw has ever been shown on U.S. regular (broadcast) TV.

Edit: They also occasionally showed things from Japanese television but even those were tame in comparison to the European and Australian shows!
 

DaveyR

Retired Moderator
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Posts
5,422
Media
0
Likes
30
Points
268
Location
Northumberland
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
agnslz said:
I know!:smile: I'm in no way trying to say that "all is well" in America, I'm just saying that around the world there are places much like here. With people whose attitudes (on sex and the like) are like most Americans.


Yes - going back to Lex's earlier post about deflection I would say that deflection is pretty much universal. I wonder just how many Governments are guilty of portraying other Nations in a bad light - via control of the media - to mask their own shortcomings. This is what I was getting at in my first post on this thread.
 

SteveHd

Sexy Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Posts
3,678
Media
0
Likes
79
Points
183
Location
Daytona
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
In this thread, I've seen stereotyping of the Midwest and "bible belt" and it's unfair. While often conservative and repressive, not everyone is. My family is in N.C., in and around Kannapolis, and I'll mention a few examples. My grandmother was a Democrat and had a picture of JFK on her dresser until she died in 1971. My uncle was a flaming liberal. So much so that those in our family that were anywhere near the political center would avoid discussing politics with him. My mother voted for McGovern in 1972 and Dukakis in 1984. She had better luck in 1992 and 96. The "bible belt" isn't monolithic. The same would be true for the Midwest but I don't have family there so someone else will have to defend them.

It would be better to specifically state the type of person - conservative, fundamentalist, reactionary, et al - that you dislike rather than denigrate an entire region.
 

B_Stronzo

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Posts
4,588
Media
0
Likes
134
Points
183
Location
Plimoth Plantation
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
Kyuhaku said:
what really bothers me is the blurring out of nudity on TV, as if our own mortal bodies are indeed not beautiful, but hideous and disgraceful. ...

Agreed.

The thinking is this:

"show them carved into little pieces or bludgeoned to death and pools of endless blood but for the love of everything holy don't show any tits, ass, or cock. Children may be watching and we want to them to think killing is normal but sex is shameful. After all who'll do the killing for us in our next killing fields if we make them think there's something wrong with taking a gun or a hatchet to another human being?" :rolleyes:
 

B_Stronzo

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Posts
4,588
Media
0
Likes
134
Points
183
Location
Plimoth Plantation
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
SteveHd said:
In this thread, I've seen stereotyping of the Midwest and "bible belt" and it's unfair. While often conservative and repressive, not everyone is. My family is in N.C., in and around Kannapolis, and I'll mention a few examples. My grandmother was a Democrat and had a picture of JFK on her dresser until she died in 1971. My uncle was a flaming liberal. So much so that those in our family that were anywhere near the political center would avoid discussing politics with him. My mother voted for McGovern in 1972 and Dukakis in 1984. She had better luck in 1992 and 96. The "bible belt" isn't monolithic. The same would be true for the Midwest but I don't have family there so someone else will have to defend them.

It would be better to specifically state the type of person - conservative, fundamentalist, reactionary, et al - that you dislike rather than denigrate an entire region.

If only we could. But the 'region' is a bit scary right now.

While I'm in favor of your 'flaming liberal' uncle 100% I think you'll find he's more the exception than the rule in his neck of the woods. By the way. What does 'flaming' in his case actually mean? :33:
 

SteveHd

Sexy Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Posts
3,678
Media
0
Likes
79
Points
183
Location
Daytona
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Stronzo said:
While I'm in favor of your 'flaming liberal' uncle 100% I think you'll find he's more the exception than the rule in his neck of the woods.
True. And that's true in general for liberals in that area.
By the way. What does 'flaming' in his case actually mean?
Extreme is what I meant.
 

B_dxjnorto

Expert Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Posts
6,876
Media
0
Likes
206
Points
193
Location
Southwest U.S.
Sexuality
69% Gay, 31% Straight
Gender
Male
Kyuhaku said:
what really bothers me is the blurring out of nudity on TV
I was watching Discovery HD theater I believe it was, a special on marriage and circumcision somewhere in Africa. The 15 or 16 year old bride was depicted in all her splendor as were all the women in the special, while the little five and six year old circumcision inductees had their tadgers blurred throughout.

Very strange.
 

headbang8

Admired Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Posts
1,627
Media
12
Likes
819
Points
333
Location
Munich (Bavaria, Germany)
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
agnslz said:
Really?:confused: Hmm, from what I've always heard Japan is much more repressive than the U.S. is on sex and nudity. They have far more taboos and are quite uncomfortable with sex, I've always thought! Oh well, I guess you learn something new everyday

One of the things I love about the LPSG is that once every few months we go off on a tangent and venture into a little discussion about sex and the Japanese. Since I lived there for several years and have a Japanese partner, I generally weigh in on the topic. Bear in mind that while I may be a little better informed than most, Japanese culture is complex and I have only ever scratched the surface.
  • Nudity per se is no big deal. Note a long standing tradition of unisex public baths--on rainy days in traditional villages, many would dash home naked from the sento with their clothes in a bag to keep them dry.
  • Pixellation over the genitalia in the media is a leftover from the Occupation, and no-one has seen it important enough to dis-enact it. The prudish MacArthur was shocked to see naked people wandering the street. Besides, Japanese media are public and international now, so it's kind of like playing to global best practice.
  • That's one of the reasons sexual manga and anime developed after the war. Plus, there was a long tradition of Japanese erotic drawing to build on. As one of my farewell gifts, colleagues gave me a reproduction scroll telling a sexual fairy tale. The characters are rabbits.
  • The Japanese are not particularly sexually repressed, but they are profoundly neurotic about relationships between people. That, rather than any particular taboo against the act, gives them one of the lowest bonking rates in the world. And makes kinky role-playing a huge sexual industry.
  • There's also a non-sexual cultural-code that portrays physical suffering as noble. It leaches over into the sexual sphere, giving the Japanese rich and interesting S&M tradition.
Now, since the Gross National Cool of Japan keeps rising, the west has become familiar with many things about Japanese society and culture. Japanese sex is pretty easy to understand; for me, the Japanese workplace was a much harder study.

HB8

P.S. Your name, kyuhaku: do you mean kyuuhyaku (900) or is it some kind of sword?
 

agnslz

Loved Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Posts
4,668
Media
0
Likes
537
Points
333
Daverock said:
Yes - going back to Lex's earlier post about deflection I would say that deflection is pretty much universal. I wonder just how many Governments are guilty of portraying other Nations in a bad light - via control of the media - to mask their own shortcomings. This is what I was getting at in my first post on this thread.

I totally agree!:smile: Going back to what I first posted in this thread, many Islamic fundamentalist states always slam the U.S. for our supposed 'liberal' ways. They hate that women here aren't covered head to toe and that we tolerate sexy music videos and women on television at all! I always get a kick out of our fundies decrying the abuses of human rights by Islamic fundamentalists and then going on to deplore the U.S. for being "too liberal" and giving gays and others "too much" rights!:rolleyes: Give me a break!:biggrin1: They just don't like the Islamic fundies 'cause they see them as rivals. Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world (I have my own view as to whether this is good or not) and fundamentalist Christians are afraid that someday it will dominate the world and they (fundie Christians) will be left powerless in the quest to 'save' people.:rolleyes: As I said, I have my own view on Islam spreading. I sure hope that the kind of Islam that is growing and spreading around the world is not the fundamentalist kind! Alas, I don't think this is the case. :( The last thing I want is a world dominated by this kind of Islam!
 

B_Stronzo

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Posts
4,588
Media
0
Likes
134
Points
183
Location
Plimoth Plantation
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
SteveHd said:
True. And that's true in general for liberals in that area.

Steve,

I have family in South Carolina (albeit in Charleston) and I don't see that many diehard conservatives there though I'm sure they exist. When I decry the "Bible Belt" or the "Midwest" generally it's because I've seen and met a rather frightening cross section of peoples who seem to be of but one mindset. Christ. It's as though they script one another.

Certainly there are some fucking scary assholes politically here in Massachusetts too. Hell, you go 40 miles inland to Worcester and you may as well be in Omaha politically speaking. So I don't know what to attribute it to other than lack of exposure to other cultures and died in the wool "down home" Christianity of the fundie variety. Either way it's not a thinking I'd care to experience on a daily basis.

But who am I to talk? The only overt gay hate crime to be publically committed and witnessed by vast numbers of patrons happened in a bar I frequent occasionally in an neighboring city here in Massachusetts so what the fuck.

But trust me in one thing. I take each individual as he or she presents themselves without exception. If I hear that Wis' CAHN' sin twang I don't automatically assume "fag hater". But I gotta tell ya it's pretty rare that I talk to anyone coming from our Lone Star state (with the singular lovely exception of our darling Heater Louanna) who doesn't mimic or reference some Biblical rhetoric within an hour of our meeting to justify a political stance.:rolleyes:

Believe me when I say I can walk about three houses from where I sit to find a family of fag haters should I choose to do so. So I confess the phenomenon of intolerance is not distinct to those areas I've previously referenced. From where I sit it simply seems to be greater in number in those locales.
 

D_alex8

Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Posts
8,055
Media
0
Likes
1,379
Points
208
Location
Germany
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
headbang8 said:
  • Pixellation over the genitalia in the media is a leftover from the Occupation, and no-one has seen it important enough to dis-enact it. The prudish MacArthur was shocked to see naked people wandering the street. Besides, Japanese media are public and international now, so it's kind of like playing to global best practice.
Aside: numerous film-makers and distributors have been actively fighting fogging and pixellation since the 1960s, and eventually got Eirin (the Japanese MPAA body) to alter the wording of its guidelines on showing pubic hair and genitalia in the summer of 1991 (albeit only by a single word!)... so that the previous statement: "Motion pictures should never show genitalia nor pubic hair" now reads: "Basically, motion pictures should never show genitalia nor pubic hair."

There have consequently been a few pictures containing full-frontal nudity (and deemed to be 'of artistic merit'), commencing with Toshiharu Ikeda's Kagi/The Key (1997) [http://imdb.com/title/tt0122563/], that have played Japanese cinemas 'unfogged'... although fogging and pixellation do remain the standard practice, probably for the 'global marketing' reasons you suggest, as well as for other commercial reasons (no need to battle censor decisions or alter prints for DVD releases, television screenings, etc.).
 
  • Like
Reactions: headbang8

IsTHATReal

Just Browsing
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Posts
15
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
146
Gender
Male
Oh my... I have had an idea... since I am in the "midwest" I wonder if I should put a white Cross on the front of my speedo (over a certain area) and a "Jesus loves me" on the rear? ... hmmm... I have a stencil kit... it would be easy enough....

Any thoughts on this as an idea? too contriversial or just right?

And I agree... Puritanical roots followed by eons of lack of real critical thought or understanding... I have lived abroad for a number of years during my 20's and probably could be considered an ATCK (Adult Third Culture Kid) since I am in the US, but I fit in more in european societies.

Ok back to you all.
 

SteveHd

Sexy Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Posts
3,678
Media
0
Likes
79
Points
183
Location
Daytona
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Stronzo said:
Believe me when I say I can walk about three houses from where I sit to find a family of fag haters should I choose to do so. So I confess the phenomenon of intolerance is not distinct to those areas I've previously referenced. From where I sit it simply seems to be greater in number in those locales.
I believe you about the "fag haters" and I agree with "greater in number in those locales" also. But I don't like a blanket generalization because it's unfair. And it diminishes the scope. Intolerance after all: is everywhere.

There's certainly less intolerance in Mass., and if I could stand the winters, I'd move up there. As it is, I can barely stand the winters in Florida so there's no chance!
 

Lex

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Posts
8,253
Media
0
Likes
118
Points
268
Location
In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
And there is lot of racial/sexual intolerance in Mass, in MD, in PA, in the south and midwest.

The point is that it is all relative (between and among places) and no person/area is above self-reflection and critique.
 

headbang8

Admired Member
Joined
May 15, 2004
Posts
1,627
Media
12
Likes
819
Points
333
Location
Munich (Bavaria, Germany)
Sexuality
80% Gay, 20% Straight
Gender
Male
alex8 said:
Aside: numerous film-makers and distributors have been actively fighting fogging and pixellation since the 1960s, and eventually got Eirin (the Japanese MPAA body) to alter the wording of its guidelines on showing pubic hair and genitalia in the summer of 1991 (albeit only by a single word!)... so that the previous statement: "Motion pictures should never show genitalia nor pubic hair" now reads: "Basically, motion pictures should never show genitalia nor pubic hair."
A very Japanese solution!

My previous comment about how the Japanese are neurotic over personal relationships--and COLJohn's recent thread about going to hell--got me thinking about the actual topic of this thread. Why are Americans so upset by sex? Yet why is the US porn industry so huge? Bigger than mainstream Hollywood, I understand.

I think Americans are neurotic about our relationships with each other, but in a different way.

Our culture makes a virtue of winning. Independence, competitiveness, get-ahead-or-be-left-behind. It drives our wealth and success. Nothing wrong with that.

Up to a point. My recent experience is that the holy grail of personal independence and the fetish for personal responsibility for one's self has acquired a huge downside. We don't trust each other. Everyone gets classified as an ally or foe. You can't be too careful. To show weakness is dangerous.

Not a very friendly environment for innocent sexual play, is it? IN fact, many people are even uncomfortable with other people's sexual play, even though it's none of their business. History suggests that the most fear-driven regimes are also the most sexually repressive. Whether it's Puritans, Muslims or fundies, it's a difference in degree rather than kind.

No wonder porn flourishes. A sexual outlet over which you maintain complete control. Clean, orderly, and (unless someone traces your credit card transaction) safely anonymous. Feminists have long pointed out that the content of most porn is less about sex and more about power.

We don't feel safe enough to let innocent sex flourish. How uptight. How sad.
 

D_Sheffield Thongbynder

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Posts
2,020
Media
0
Likes
4
Points
183
headbang8 said:
A very Japanese solution!

My previous comment about how the Japanese are neurotic over personal relationships--and COLJohn's recent thread about going to hell--got me thinking about the actual topic of this thread. Why are Americans so upset by sex? Yet why is the US porn industry so huge? Bigger than mainstream Hollywood, I understand.

I think Americans are neurotic about our relationships with each other, but in a different way.

Our culture makes a virtue of winning. Independence, competitiveness, get-ahead-or-be-left-behind. It drives our wealth and success. Nothing wrong with that.

Up to a point. My recent experience is that the holy grail of personal independence and the fetish for personal responsibility for one's self has acquired a huge downside. We don't trust each other. Everyone gets classified as an ally or foe. You can't be too careful. To show weakness is dangerous.

Not a very friendly environment for innocent sexual play, is it? IN fact, many people are even uncomfortable with other people's sexual play, even though it's none of their business. History suggests that the most fear-driven regimes are also the most sexually repressive. Whether it's Puritans, Muslims or fundies, it's a difference in degree rather than kind.

No wonder porn flourishes. A sexual outlet over which you maintain complete control. Clean, orderly, and (unless someone traces your credit card transaction) safely anonymous. Feminists have long pointed out that the content of most porn is less about sex and more about power.

We don't feel safe enough to let innocent sex flourish. How uptight. How sad.


Your assessment is brilliant, IMO. Of course my imprimatur would mean more if I were not headed to warmer regions.:wink: