What is wrong with Christians?

[cocktaste]

I don't see why hiding behind any facade should surprise anyone. It's the oldest trick in the Book, pretend to stand for the direct opposite of what you are.

I wonder if I can find The Book in a library. I bet I could.

It makes me laugh when people still wonder how anyone religious could dare be a hypocrite. If you're a bible thumper, of course you're going to reek of it. Condemning people is nothing new, and they ruin it for people who are nothing like them. They've hijacked religion.

Anyone remember, "darksided"?:biggrin1:

 

[whatireallywant]

I saw a tshirt today that said, "Cuckoo for Jesus!"

Best, most accurate shirt for bible thumpers ever. I'm getting one for each member of my husband's family.

I love it! But I think the irony would be lost on those who are best described by the saying.

I have a unique perspective on this myself, growing up in a conservative Christian family, but now I am a VERY liberal agnostic! (and have been since the age of 17). However, my gripe is no longer against ALL Christians, but only the fundamentalists. (As well as fundamentalists of other religions...) You just hear about the fundamentalists more. Not only because they're the ones who make the news, but because they're the ones who are the loudest. The more tolerant Christians are more quiet about their faith.

 

[BigDuder]

Sarcasm much?

just out of curiosity, what level of schooling are you in?

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

I think having seen my brother his whole life struggle with this, i always had compassion and love for him. It has nothing to do with being a christian or not i think. It has to do with being a human being who can observe what holding expectations that some can not accomplish can destroy the soul and core of a person. Conservative or not, christian or not. Im just a very cerebral and psychological person, its something that maybe i chose to see and acknowledge and not sweep under the rug.

 

[DocHolliday]

just out of curiosity, what level of schooling are you in?

Maybe you should ask, "School much?"

Threads about religion and politics should be banned :tongue:

Great idea! Ranks right up there with "Please don't feed the Trolls."

 

[cocktaste]

just out of curiosity, what level of schooling are you in?

Don't embarrass yourself, honey.

 

[cocktaste]

Maybe you should ask, "School much?"



Great idea! Ranks right up there with "Please don't feed the Trolls."

Isn't it time you started quoting more faux-science? It's been about 3 hours.

 

[D_Geffarde Phartsmeller]

In order to judge Christians, one should really at least be a practicing Christian. You'll have a better point of view. As a Christian, I don't like the sweeping generalizations that have been posted. Coming from a very conservative Christian background, I can totally understand why anything that goes against "the norm" causes lots of problems and makes people justify their actions. I'm not saying what has been done is ok, I'm just saying that I understand the mentality because I know the background and how it makes people react to urges. What I have found, though, is that most Christians are not hypocritical and judgemental, it's a very vocal minority. Most Christians really are about love and establishing relationships with others, as Jesus taught.

Agreed. I've got a friend from college that's conservative christian but also very much gay. He doesn't hide it from anyone and certainly isn't ashamed of it. Very open. We only hear from the outspoken christians opposed to homosexuality because they tend to be the loudest. That certainly doesn't make them the majority, however. Just obnoxious

 

[cocktaste]

Agreed. I've got a friend from college that's conservative christian but also very much gay. He doesn't hide it from anyone and certainly isn't ashamed of it. Very open. We only hear from the outspoken christians opposed to homosexuality because they tend to be the loudest. That certainly doesn't make them the majority, however. Just obnoxious

He's a Conservative Christian which is based around the principal that he shouldn't exist. He has some major issues. If you're a Liberal Christian, fine. But a Conservative Christian? Give me a break. His being gay around a whole bunch of other Conservative religious nut jobs, should have at least broaden his view a bit more. To each their own, I guess.

 

[BigDuder]

Don't embarrass yourself, honey.

first of all, i was born and raised in the mid-atlantic. my parents moved to missouri (they have a kansas city too). thirdl i currently attend law school in dc. oh, and i have actually read "What's the matter with Kansas?" and, personally, I found it's arguments wanting. still i'm glad you answered my accusations with yet another generalization.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

prep, I appreciate your point of view, but have to disagree. I'm speaking as a formerly devout Christian so maybe you'll accept that I have a valid point of view, even if I'm no longer practicing. I'd say that it is not a minority at all, but the VAST overwhelming majority of professed Christians who are both judgmental and hypocritical. It's virtually impossible not to be, in my opinion, and still believe the scriptures. You are going to be judgmental because even though many pastors (certainly not all) will urge their followers that it is not their duty to pass judgment as that is in God's jurisdiction, in the very same sermon they'll list all the bad things that sinners do and tell you why they are bad for doing them. They'll not come out and say that homosexuals are necessarily evil (most of them won't, some of them will), but they WILL say that homosexuality is a sin, that it is a choice, and that homosexuals are giving in to human frailty and weakness. If it is not said, it will often be implied that homosexuals are going to hell. The congregation henceforth may be perfectly nice to other gay people (they may not be), at least on the surface, but they may try to tell them that what they are doing is wrong, or if they don't then they'll at least be thinking it.

EVEN IF these Christians go about all of this in a nice and pleasant way and EVEN IF they pay lip-service to not judging others and loving thy neighbor as thyself, etc. They are STILL being judgmental if they take part in any of the above. If they condescendingly, egotistically assume that they are right and everyone else is wrong, as their faith DEMANDS they do, then they are being judgmental. Being judgmental is a core tenet of Christian faith. It's virtually required.

Hypocrisy is not as intrinsic as judging is in Christianity based purely on scripture (ignoring for a minute all the numerous contradictory chapters in scripture), but it HAS become a core value of modern organized religion, particularly in affluent countries like the United States. Christians routinely pick and choose which sins they feel are worth worrying about. They happily display their avarice and weltlust and vanity by dressing in their Sunday best for church every week. They engorge themselves for holiday dinners, reveling in sloth and greed and gluttony. They amass wealth and material things. They eat shellfish. The work on the sabbath. The covet their neighbor's shit. The feel proud. They do all sorts of shit that they really shouldn't be doing as "Christians," and don't even think about most of it. Yet when it comes time to as a group condemn the Walt Disney corporation for extending benefits to same-sex partners of employees, many of them are quite enthusiastic about that. The level of hypocrisy is RIDICULOUS, and that's just the stuff that's out in the open.

Under the surface, I feel there is far far more that we don't see. I don't agree with the OP that all Christians are closeted depraved homosexuals, but when you see a story like that, and not just one but many, it certainly does raise awareness of the fact that many Christians out there are trying to keep up appearances because they want to publicly adhere to a faith that goes against human nature. There was a scandal at my church that caused a huge rift in the congregation relevant to this. Our pastor was caught with pornographic images on his computer. As far as we know nothing worse than what's routinely posted in the gallery section of this website every day. Yet he lost his job over it and half of the church thought that it was the right thing to do. ridiculous...

We are sexual beings. Contemporary prevailing interpretations of Christianity would have us deny that fact. Homosexuality is natural. Contemporary prevailing interpretations of Christianity would have us deny that fact. So many Christians are living in denial. Trying to act the part of the good Christian, judging others for their moral transgressions, even while they themselves might be shamefully looking at internet porn. Or having impure thoughts about their neighbor's wife. Or having sex with their meth-dealing gay hooker. They're probably justifying this behavior to themselves while it is occurring, even if they publicly denounce the same behavior to their children or their congregation or their friends or those they communicate with on internet forums. This is the very definition of hypocrisy, and much like being judgmental, it is highly integral to the lives of most (if not all) "Christians," just by the very nature of contemporary organized religion.

 

[JustAsking]

I think having seen my brother his whole life struggle with this, i always had compassion and love for him. It has nothing to do with being a christian or not i think. It has to do with being a human being who can observe what holding expectations that some can not accomplish can destroy the soul and core of a person. Conservative or not, christian or not. Im just a very cerebral and psychological person, its something that maybe i chose to see and acknowledge and not sweep under the rug.

BedheadRed,
From my point of view, you just described an essential aspect of Christianity that many on the Conservative end of the spectrum often lose in their legalistic approach. What I am talking about is that recognizing that we are all flawed in very profound ways yet we are unconditionally forgiven for it by God.

Living up to a standard of behavior or expections has less to do with salvation than it does with reducing misery and suffering in the world. So your compassion and love for your brother, regardless of what a Conservative Christian vision for him might have him be, is the essence of the kind of faith that I believe in. In fact, the more marginalized someone is, the more Christian love and compassion he/she deserves. The God we worship is the God of the least, the lost, and the lonely.

If you are thinking that your feelings don't line up with Conservative beliefs, please know that they do line up with much of mainstream Christianity. I am not criticising your Conservative tradition, I am just saying that the Christian tent is very big, and you are articulating things that are well within the tent. Don't think you are being unfaithful. They don't call it The Good News for nothing. And if it is not Good News for everyone, its not the real thing.

I have often said in these threads that if Jesus were to appear on Earth some Friday or Saturday night, that he would make a beeline for either a gay bar or an AA meeting. That is the Jesus that we know from the New Testament.

I am not offended by the subject matter of threads like this, because I share some of the same outrage at what a small vocal group of Christian extremists do to those they target, as well as other Christians by association. I am equally outraged at the mainstream denominations for abstaining from the discusion.

Finally, thanks to you for your heartfelt and sincere postings. Don't let any Christian teaching make you feel guility for having compassion and love for someone, regardless of who they are. Remember the old Hymn, "You Shall Know Them By Their Love."

Christ's Peace,
JA

 

[D_Geffarde Phartsmeller]

He's a Conservative Christian which is based around the principal that he shouldn't exist. He has some major issues. If you're a Liberal Christian, fine. But a Conservative Christian? Give me a break. His being gay around a whole bunch of other Conservative religious nut jobs, should have at least broaden his view a bit more. To each their own, I guess.

I didn't realize you've met every christian, conservative and conservative christian on the planet. How else could you make such broad statements that condemn them all?? There's ALOT more to being a christian and conservatism than the belief homosexuality is the devil. Abortion, gun control, interaction with other nations, government's role in the economy, etc. One can easily be gay and still conservative. As for being christian, as was pointed out before, the focus is on love, not hatred. A few ruin it for the rest but that can be said of all groups. You seem to have a very narrow view on the subject given your refusal to allow for the possibility conservatives aren't all "religious nut jobs".

 

[whatireallywant]

He's a Conservative Christian which is based around the principal that he shouldn't exist. He has some major issues. If you're a Liberal Christian, fine. But a Conservative Christian? Give me a break. His being gay around a whole bunch of other Conservative religious nut jobs, should have at least broaden his view a bit more. To each their own, I guess.

Actually, I broke with the conservative Christian religion I grew up in for sort of similar reasons. Not being gay, but being for women's equality, in a religion I started to learn was very sexist. I was very anti-Christian for a long time after that, then became where I am now - not anti-Christian but anti-fundamentalist (of any religion). Oh yeah, and plus I liked a bunch of other stuff the church preached against, like rock music and dancing.

After many many years of not going to any church at all and being averse to the idea, a few years ago I decided to give the Unitarian Universalist church a try. It is much more in tune with the way I think. Christian churches that would be more in tune with it as well include the United Church of Christ and the more liberal Quakers, at least from what I've heard, as I have never attended either of those churches.

 

[rob_just_rob]

I saw a tshirt today that said, "Cuckoo for Jesus!"

Best, most accurate shirt for bible thumpers ever. I'm getting one for each member of my husband's family.

Where can I get one? I can think of 2 people off the top of my head that are crying out for them.

 

[biguy2738]

I agree...ALL Christians are judgemental, closeted dicks who ought to be led to the woods and shot. Hey wait, I'M Christian, queer, out of the closet...and I was told that we ought to be taken to the woods and shot.
The mind is going, I tell you! It's is going! ROTFLMFAO :biggrin1:

As for the comment about the Bible with references to Leviticus...it's a very interesting point, sadly because it's been taken out of context. An example - the issue of forgiveness:

"If Cain is avenged sevenfold, turly Lamech seventy-sevenfold." (Gen 4:24)

However, later on in the Old Testament, we read:​

"Anyone who maims another shall suffer the same injury in return: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; the injury inflicted is the injury to be suffered." (Lev 24:20)

Hey! That's good news. Things have progressed from revenge being seventy seven fold to 1:1. However, later on in the New Testament, we read:​

"Then Peter came and said to him, "Lord, if another person sins against me, how often should I forgive? As many as seven times?" Jesus said to him, "Not seven times, but, I tell you, seventy-seven times."

As you can see, there is a progression in thought and understanding. The Bible is a book of Theology - faith communities gradual understanding and entering into a relationship with God. It is not a history text book and shouldn't be read as one. The awareness of this growth in progression in understanding serves as a challenge to us Christians to be constantly aware that God is STILL speaking and we are called in our lives to respond accordingly.

There are good and bad examples everywhere: There are good gay folk, there are lousy gay folk (and the same applies with straight and bisexual people as well). There are good Black, Caucasion, Latino, Asian etc people and there are rotters as well.

Fact of the matter is: Dare I stand on my soap box and point my finger at others, or am I going to point the finger at myself and challenge myself to do better?

Snoozan, do you know where I can get one of those "cuckoo for Jesus" t-shirts? Seriously. I think that it's kewl - I would love to have one!

 

[Principessa]

hey look a sweeping generalization about 1.5 billion people.

yup!

It's pointing out hypocrisy.

Not all Christians are Right wing nutcases, and are very moderate people with an understanding and acceptance of people. That's what Christianity is suppose to be all about. <---- That's me! :smile: The problem is the number of nutcases that are out there now. That and the fact they are frighteningly vocal and active politically. The group that has the most rampant hypocrisy is the Catholic Church. I dunno about that. I think the Baptists and Pentecostals could give them a run for their money. :biggrin1: It is purely about control, and it is not normal to instruct people to not have sex, and give up any possessions that they have. It's total control. It attracts weirdos who end up doing horrible things like molesting children. I'm sure that there are people who are incredibly faithful and mean well, but it is not biologically and mentally healthy. It seems you are focusing on the vows which a priest must take. I agree with you on that. I'm not quite sure what the original intent or purpose was with celibacy; but given how many priests take vows of poverty yet own homes in Soutth Hamptoon or Hyannis, I'd say they need serious revision. They aren't all trust fund babies!

In order to judge Christians, one should really at least be a practicing Christian. You'll have a better point of view. I agree. As a Christian, I don't like the sweeping generalizations that have been posted. Nor do I. What I have found, though, is that most Christians are not hypocritical and judgemental, it's a very vocal minority. Most Christians really are about love and establishing relationships with others, as Jesus taught. I agree, unfortunately our voices are often shouted down by those radical people on the otherside of the fence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster

Threads about religion and politics should be banned :tongue:

Amen! I think I'll go light a candle and pray for that right now. :smile:


QUOTED FOR EMPHASIS.

 

[D_Duane Pipe]

I'm with Duder, minus the whole Brett Favre thing. *l* Yes, I'm from Minnesota and a Vikings fan. :smile: But there are a number of generalizations about Christians. The reality is that irregardless of where you look, all organizations are run by humans and humans have flaws, thus there are going to be those who bring scandal to their perspective organization. On the flip side, there are so many more who do good for their organization, especially Christians. It's sooooooooo evident at this time of year with all the food/clothing/toy drives that Christian churches/communities/organizations are putting on. There are those who are "fringe", and to put it the way a teacher in college said, there are 10% that are extreme, 5% on each side (left and right, liberal and conservative), which leaves 90% who are in the middle. His point was to look at those in the middle, b/c everyone can find a "kook" on the left or right.

I'm sorry to hear that so many have been hurt by those in the 10%, but I don't think generalizations will help the situation or bring understanding. It just seeks to further polarize.

 

[B_jacknapier]

Fuck you, original poster.

 

[BigDuder]

hahaha. that was all that needed to be said.