What is wrong with this woman?!

[LeeEJ]

I agree about keeping close track of your kids, etc.

I just found it ironic that the particular mandala was one that represents "compassion", which is just about the exact quality needed by the monks in this incident.

 

[LeeEJ]

I'll also say that I hope more people notice and try to understand the monks' reaction and how they're handling it.

 

[snoozan]

Snoozan, I don't have children of my own, but have spent lots of time tending nephews and cousins... at times for several days at a time, usually for 6 hours or so.

I don't mean to disparage your experience, but it's different than having your own kids. I'm with my son 24 hours a day most days unless I'm working, when he is with my husband or my mother or grandmother. My child has never had a babysitter or been in any sort of institutional childcare situation. I am tired all the time, my attention span is shot, and I think I have about 4 brain cells left. I can't stop being a mom, I can't ever put down my guard, and my kid is always at the top of my priority list. This is being a parent. Your life is pretty much 100% about your kids. So while I respect that you are involved with your family and all the little ones, it's not that same. However, I do agree that you have more of an idea of what you're talking about than most people without kids.

And, you make some wonderful points.

The things that I call irresponsible parenting are not those happen-in-a-flash occurrences. If a parent is not capable of carrying on a cell phone conversation and watch their child at the same time, guess which one I'm going to suggest that they do?

Of course. I've had similar experiences when I've been trying to care for my son and do a few (million) other things, and eventually I get it through my skull that I can't possibly do all the things I'm trying to do at once and focus on the most important (which is always the kid). There's just so much that needs to get done in a day that many times parents feel really torn trying to both care for children and do other things that need to get done, like making phone calls or paying bills or cleaning or whatever. You are 100% correct, however, and though most parents know this, we still somehow think that we can do it all simply because it needs to get done. It's not always negligence, sometimes it's just a parent being frazzled and unrealistic about the number of things they can do at once.

Your dog lashing out unexpectedly is NOT the same as a parent who chronically refuses to watch OR DISCIPLINE their child. The parent who says nothing as their child continually kicks the seat in front of them on an airplane. The parent who lets their child run up and down the aisles in a restaurant.

I agree with both of these completely. If a kid is misbehaving and not acting appropriately in public, you discipline them as appropriate and/or remove them from the situation. This happened to me today-- my son was being a bear in a restaurant so we finished eating quickly, said my goodbyes and came home. Not only is this polite, it's also easier on the parents. I would have loved to stay today because it's rare that I get to eat out and be with friends, and therefore I may have lingered longer than I should have, but eventually it was time to go. I didn't let it get to the point where he was screaming or running around unattended. A lot of parents because it is very hard to have to be so vigilant over their kids and because they just want to go out and get a break do let them run around a restaurant, for example, and I can see what the temptation is... But in the long run, it's better to just deal with the situation appropriately.

My point about posting my story and my reaction to this thread is that people have done the same thing to me that we are doing to this woman with the madala-destroying toddler. I see it from the other side, and I wanted to make clear that this may not have been an incident where we need to lambaste the mother (and notice it's the mother and not the father most of the time). We don't know if she's a bad parent or if she simply had a bad few minutes.

As you've said, there's a difference between a mistake or an accident and consistent negligence. In this case, we don't know.

 

[txquis]

hmm.....pondering what has been said since i posted.
My opinions in this thread are observations from my profession...something i see and deal with each day, 40 hours a week...I find it to be credible, rather than...wait, what was the word i read above..."ridiculous".

 

[IntoxicatingToxin]

I guess she was either mortified, or indifferent. But sure, a grovelling apology would certainly have been in order, perhaps a donation.

On the test thing; it's curious how those who advocate such things (like a tougher driving test) are almost always speaking retrospectively - they already have children, or a license etc and so, are thus not affected. Would you submit to one as a condition for having another child - after all previous good practice is no guarantee of future excellence?

And, who is 'they' exactly?

Personally, I think it's nonsensical, at least on the parental thing, in part because it's a fundemental breach of human rights but few things about parenting are standard - so how can you pre-assess parental competence with a standardised test?

That's not aimed at you specifically, just punted into the ether.:smile:

I understand what you mean, and when I said the thing about the tests, I was mostly just being facetious and frustrated. I know it's not realistic. However if there WERE a test, I would take one before having more children.

I think I may be the only person here who doesn't feel righteous indignation at this incident. The truth is, toddlers are toddlers, and parents, even good parents, are going to have moments when they can't react fast enough, let alone act rationally when their child gets away from them and does something like this.

I think the problem I have, is that the child didn't "get away" from her... the child was never really WITH her. If my son is walking behind me and I can't see what he's doing, I don't consider that being "with" me.

Even excellent parents can't always keep their children within their line of sight at all times. These things happen. The fact that she didn't tell anyone-- well, who was there to tell? This incident happened after hours, so I wonder if there was anyone that was around to tell this about. If it were me, I may have been so embarrassed in the heat of the moment that I would have just walked away. I may have regretted it later, but I may not have reacted well when it happened. All parents make mistakes. Or there could have been a handful of other reasons that I would have chosen not to try to find someone and explain what happened.

I'm not sure that this incident was completely after hours. If you listen to the video with the volume up, you can hear MANY voices talking in the background. Surely there was someone there she could've reported too. Also, I'm sure that the majority of you don't even know what Union Station is, so maybe I should explain that a little. It's an old train station... still is a train station in part of, but the rest of it has been transformed and remodeled. There are restaurants and stores in there (not to mention the post office that the mother was at.) There is also "Science City" in there which is a science museum. I just have a hard time imagining that there were NO employees around somewhere.

The fact that this story made the newspaper just shows me that it must have been a slow news day or that nothing happens in Kansas City if there's not a tornado. The monks reacted appropriately. Shit happens. They know that. Why don't the rest of us? It's ironic that we're up in arms about it and the creators understand and in some ways may have welcomed such a strong example of their faith.

For those of you criticising other parents and waxing on about "the good old days," the truth is that our parents said the exact same things about other parents and how much better things were when they were kids. Are there negligent parents out there? Yes. However, some of this behavior that you're talking about is well within the realm of what good parents do. Children are overwhelming. We can't always be the perfect parents in public, or even in private.

Let me give you a personal experience. My son was bitten by the family dog when he was 9 months old. I wasn't home, but my husband was. The baby was crawling on the floor about 3 feet from my husband and went close to the dog (who had never shown any sort of aggression towards my son) and she nipped him in the face faster than it took my husband to grab the baby away. He was watching the whole time and just didn't act fast enough. Since my son was so small and the dog large, he was seriously hurt. It was a tragic accident. We put the dog down before my son came home from the hospital.

I had news vans and the newspaper show up on my doorstep the days after this happened, all wanting to know how such a tragic thing could happen and musing over what kind of parents would let this happen etc. so on and so forth. Pretty much, the same bullshit that you all are spouting about this "terrible parent" who let her kid destroy a sacred sand sculpture. This kid didn't know it wasn't appropriate to play in sand (he/she probably has a sandbox) and mom (or dad) got distracted. This happens all the time, and I bet all of you parents and caregivers out there have had that happen to you. Toddlers are fast and they can destroy something faster than it takes to blink.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to your son! I'm a mother, I completely understand how things happen so quickly that you can't react. Shit DOES happen. This mother just seemed a bit negligent to me. Her child is three years old... she should understand that three year olds get into trouble faster than you can imagine.

You're all being ridiculous because it's a non-story and a non-issue. Kids do destructive shit all the time. All the time. And they get away from us even when we're pactically staring at them. So go ahead and get outraged, go ahead and get indignant, and go ahead and wonder about me and my parenting skills because of what happened to my kid, and thank God that nothing bad has happened to your kid and pray that it doesn't ever happen to you.

My husband and I will be wracked with guilt for the rest of our lives for something that could not have been predicted and wasn't due to some gross negligence (or at least we try to tell ourselves). People playing Monday morning quarterback over how someone else parents their child-- me or the parents of the mandala destroyer or anyone else-- are reprehensible and hypocritical to me.

If the mandala had been staffed (which is should have been) or had proper barriers installed (more than those courtesy ropes that toddlers probably don't even see), this incident probably would not have happened or mom would have reported it to the person that was there. The bottom line is, we don't know, and the writers of the story probably have half of their facts wrong. In my case, the reporters didn't even report the very simple facts correctly-- like my son's age, the time the incident happened, or the police-reported severity of the injury when it first happened. But those things they reported made a better story than what really happened.

Go parent your own children and really take a look at how imperfectly you really are, or, if you don't have kids, babysit a two year old for a week and then comment on this.

I'm not saying that I'm a perfect parent. But I do pay attention to my son and his whereabouts while in public. For his safety and everyone else's.

 

[dong20]

hmm.....pondering what has been said since i posted.
My opinions in this thread are observations from my profession...something i see and deal with each day, 40 hours a week...I find it to be credible, rather than...wait, what was the word i read above..."ridiculous".

You read through all the posts and sensible comments, focussed on one ONE word and assumed it was aimed at you? 10/10 for ego, 0/10 for accuracy I think.

 

[dong20]

I understand what you mean, and when I said the thing about the tests, I was mostly just being facetious and frustrated. I know it's not realistic. However if there WERE a test, I would take one before having more children.

I suspected but it's not the first time it's been mentioned (in other threads) so this time I thought I would follow up.

I'm not saying that I'm a perfect parent. But I do pay attention to my son and his whereabouts while in public. For his safety and everyone else's.

You're human, therefore by definition imperfect.

 

[snoozan]

hmm.....pondering what has been said since i posted.
My opinions in this thread are observations from my profession...something i see and deal with each day, 40 hours a week...I find it to be credible, rather than...wait, what was the word i read above..."ridiculous".

40 hours a week is a hell of a lot less than 168 hours a week. I'm sure you see a lot of what may well be negligent parenting in your profession, but I'm just giving you the old "walk a mile in a (wo)man's shoes" argument. You really don't know what it is to be a parent and I felt compelled to give an opposing argument from the side of a parent.

Just as an example, I can say that I live with a man and have a lot of men friends that I spend time with, and am therefore more informed about what it is to be man, but the fact remains that I am not one. Therefore, I don't know what it is to be a man. Same principle.

 

[prepstudinsc]

The child should have not been left unattended while the mother went to the Post Office to mail a package. Sure, the child probably didn't want to go stand in line, but you know what...it's not HIS choice. Parents need to start being parents and stop being friends. When a parent takes some responsibility and shows who is in charge, the children learn respect.

Because I tended to just wander off when I was a toddler, my mother would not take me to the mall or the grocery store without one of those harness/leash things. I am better off for it because I didn't knock anything over and I didn't get hurt.

I am also better off because my mother was not afraid to spank me or wash my mouth out with soap if I talked back to her. To this day, I am still petrified of the wooden spoons in her kitchen!

My mother was concerned with my safety and had my best interests in mind when she would exert parental control. I am glad she did and to this day I still respect her for it.

The little boy who ruined the mandala probably didn't know any better, but his mother sure did. With all the child abductions that take place, why in the world would you take your child to a busy place and leave them unattended? That is pure stupidity. The mother obviously needs some discipline herself.

I hope that the video keeps getting played all over the world so the mother is embarassed about her poor parenting skills. People need to learn that they have to be accountable for their actions.

As to the mandala, yes, the picture is destroyed once the monks finish it, but it wasn't done and was not ready to be swept up. The good thing that will come of this is that people will probably want to come forward to help raise money for those monks.

 

[IntoxicatingToxin]

I think Harvey Danger had it right. I don't have time to dig for statistics, but isn't early parenthood practically synonymous with not going to college and a lower living standard?

I don't know how true this is. I got pregnant at age 18. 6 months after I turned 18, to be precise. I had dropped out of high school halfway through my senior year because I didn't have enough credits to graduate. My family was always "poor". We qualified for food stamps, etc... I have never been to college, but I am starting this fall. I've already applied, been accepted, turned in my transcripts, and taken my entrance exams. But none of those things are synonymous with poor parenting. At least, they shouldn't be. I almost put my son up for adoption because I was petrified that I would be a horrible parent. I was young. I had just started being "free". I didn't want that to stop. I was worried I would turn into one of those young people who have children then just pawn them off on their parents all the time and never get a chance to connect and bond with them. I didn't. I've been with my son since day one. My son is the biggest accomplishment of my life. Sometimes I wonder how my life would've been had I not gotten pregnant. I know that financially, I'd be in a better position. I would've at least started college by now, or possibly even graduated college. I'd have more of a social life. I could go on more dates. I can think of a million things in my life that would've been different. But I wouldn't change it for the world.

 

[txquis]

I am a child and parent advocate, that is my job...so i'm certainly not intending any 'bashing' at all...I'm just sharing work stories, and my concern....I am reporting a shocking and disturbing upward increase of such incidents as I've had to deal with them at my job.

Cautioning parents is part of the job I am paid to do. I caution parents not only about child safety, but about predators...and these factors come into play when children are left unattended at my workplace.

I've been around the ole LPSG a long time, and was always known as the peaceful guy. I still am. Just clarifying my point. I'll step aside now.

 

[dong20]

Parents need to start being parents and stop being friends. When a parent takes some responsibility and shows who is in charge, the children learn respect.

Are you suggesting these things are mutually exclusive?

I am also better off because my mother was not afraid to spank me or wash my mouth out with soap if I talked back to her. To this day, I am still petrified of the wooden spoons in her kitchen!

A irrational fear of those spoons induced by your Mother is a good thing?

My mother was concerned with my safety and had my best interests in mind when she would exert parental control. I am glad she did and to this day I still respect her for it.

As was mine, and so do I. She also allowed me to make my own mistakes, that's how I learned how to make my own judgements.

The little boy who ruined the mandala probably didn't know any better, but his mother sure did. With all the child abductions that take place, why in the world would you take your child to a busy place and leave them unattended? That is pure stupidity. The mother obviously needs some discipline herself.

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, same applies to his mother. I just love it when people make such sanctimoneous blanket statements based on a Internet news report, I just love it.

I hope that the video keeps getting played all over the world so the mother is embarassed about her poor parenting skills. People need to learn that they have to be accountable for their actions.

Yes, that's right and, perhaps she'll become depressed and harm herself or her child - quite likely the boy will be bullied and humiliated at school for his 'dumbass' Mother. Is that what you want?

Nothing like being judgmental is there, from the safety of your keyboard, there are no consequences for you. Are you willing to be held accountable for that....? I thought so.

 

[IntoxicatingToxin]

As was mine, and so do I. She also allowed me to make my own mistakes, that's how I learned how to make my own judgements.

My mom let me make my own mistakes too. But she would never allow me to destroy a display case in a store, or destroy someone else's property, which is pretty much what this woman did. By not watching her son, she allowed it to happen.

 

[dong20]

My mom let me make my own mistakes too. But she would never allow me to destroy a display case in a store, or destroy someone else's property, which is pretty much what this woman did. By not watching her son, she allowed it to happen.

Oh God no, I mean within sensible limits, a little short of enough rope so to speak. But as has been said a moments inattention is all it takes, that I know from both sides of the parental equation. And, of course I was a toddler too and we're devious little gits given an inch......

No, had I done something like that, I'd be seeing a lot of the Monks as I pitched in to help them finish, learn some humility, then clear up. To start with.:biggrin1:

 

[snoozan]

I understand what you mean, and when I said the thing about the tests, I was mostly just being facetious and frustrated. I know it's not realistic. However if there WERE a test, I would take one before having more children.

I would never pass one of those tests. I am mentally ill (diagnosed while I was pregnant). I don't know that this makes me a bad parent, but I imagine that would be one of the criteria. For this reason alone the idea of testing scares me.

I think the problem I have, is that the child didn't "get away" from her... the child was never really WITH her. If my son is walking behind me and I can't see what he's doing, I don't consider that being "with" me.

Actually he was right next to her until he wandered off to the sand pit. She looked like she was in a hurry (which we all are at times, especially when we're parents) and she was expecting that he was still next to her (because that's what he was told to do and probably what he normally does) and he wandered off. She was obviously preoccupied by the way she was walking and though she should have seen him, she didn't. This is not the sign of a bad parent-- it's a sign of a busy, frazzled parent who made a bad judgement call. Now, if this is what she's always like, then yes, she's a bad parent. We just can't tell from this video. The entire incident took less than a minute. If you tell me that your child has never gotten away from you for 30 seconds or a minute, you're a better parent than I am.

I'm not sure that this incident was completely after hours. If you listen to the video with the volume up, you can hear MANY voices talking in the background. Surely there was someone there she could've reported too. Also, I'm sure that the majority of you don't even know what Union Station is, so maybe I should explain that a little. It's an old train station... still is a train station in part of, but the rest of it has been transformed and remodeled. There are restaurants and stores in there (not to mention the post office that the mother was at.) There is also "Science City" in there which is a science museum. I just have a hard time imagining that there were NO employees around somewhere.

Honestly, I may have reacted the same way. Embarrassment, not understanding the significance of the sand mandala, knowing that there was nothing she could do even if she told someone, having to get somewhere quickly, wanting to discipline her child rather than find someone... There are many things she may have been thinking and she made a bad judgement call. Plus, I imagine there wasn't much a store employee could have done anyway except call security, and all security could have done was, well... nothing. It wasn't something she could have paid to fix or replace.

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to your son! I'm a mother, I completely understand how things happen so quickly that you can't react. Shit DOES happen. This mother just seemed a bit negligent to me. Her child is three years old... she should understand that three year olds get into trouble faster than you can imagine.

Thank you. My son is fine now and his injuries were much less than they could have been. He recovered fast and I'm just glad he's okay.

I really do feel for this mother. Someone said that they think this video should be played over and over to embarrass her over what a bad parent she is. My point is that we really don't know from this isolated 1-minute video what kind of parent she is. Sure, it looks bad. But we've all had bad moments. I have been on the receiving end of the media wanting to create just the sort of the reaction that's been happening here so they have a "story" and get ratings. Just by us clicking on your link we're making them money. They know this and that's why they posted this story. It hits a nerve with most people that have to deal with kids in one way or another. I just don't think it's as big a deal as we're making it taken as an isolated event. I reacted the same way you did until I thought about it for a few minutes and related it to my experience. I feel bad for this woman, especially if she's a decent parent at most other times .

I'm not saying that I'm a perfect parent. But I do pay attention to my son and his whereabouts while in public. For his safety and everyone else's.

From what I've read of your posts, you seem like a very responsible, intelligent parent. I just think we need to cut this lady some slack unless we know what she's like under normal circumstances and not make her into a villain. Just as someone implied that poor, uneducated people make bad parents, this video panders to the conventional wisdom that modern parents are irresponsible and has made this woman into an example that may or may not reflect how she is as a parent on the whole. I also don't think that it's a coincidence that this woman looks to be non-caucasian. I wonder if the video would have even made the news had it been an attractive young white woman.

 

[IntoxicatingToxin]

I also don't think that it's a coincidence that this woman looks to be non-caucasian. I wonder if the video would have even made the news had it been an attractive young white woman.

I wondered the same thing!!!

 

[snoozan]

The little boy who ruined the mandala probably didn't know any better, but his mother sure did. With all the child abductions that take place, why in the world would you take your child to a busy place and leave them unattended? That is pure stupidity. The mother obviously needs some discipline herself.

This isn't what happened. If you look at the video he wandered away from her side and destroyed the mandala in about 30-60 seconds. This is not "leaving a child unattended." This is being in a hurry and losing track of your kid because he/she wandered off. I'm not saying it's okay that it happened, I'm just saying that you absolutely cannot b e perfectly vigilant as a parent, ever. You are drawing a lot of conclusions from a short story online and a 1-minute video.

I hope that the video keeps getting played all over the world so the mother is embarassed about her poor parenting skills. People need to learn that they have to be accountable for their actions.

Been there, done that, still have neighbors and family members that won't talk to me because of my poor parenting skills. The funny thing is, I get most of the heat but it was my husband that was at home when my son was bitten. If this is being "held accountable" it's a fucking shame.

I am a child and parent advocate, that is my job...so i'm certainly not intending any 'bashing' at all...I'm just sharing work stories, and my concern....I am reporting a shocking and disturbing upward increase of such incidents as I've had to deal with them at my job.

Cautioning parents is part of the job I am paid to do. I caution parents not only about child safety, but about predators...and these factors come into play when children are left unattended at my workplace.

I've been around the ole LPSG a long time, and was always known as the peaceful guy. I still am. Just clarifying my point. I'll step aside now.

Good for you for doing such a difficult and needed job. I understand your concern and share it, but I do wonder if you may not be prejudiced a bit because of your field. In some ways, the pendulum may have swung too far from the early parts of the 20th century where "spare the rod, spoil the child" was almost universally accepted and punishing child beating parents was unheard of, but I can't say that way was better than what we have now.

 

[bluekarma]

Parents seem to accept increasingly less responsibility for their children as time goes on.

#1 problem with children today - no CONSEQUENCE , or very little, for their actions. This very lack ofresponsibility is what breeds these punk ass teenagers who think they can do fuck all to whoever they please and are truly "untouchable". They've never dealt with a single consequence their entire life. They've had Mom or Dad sweep it under the rug, dismiss it, or worse yet...JUSTIFY the behavior somehow, because they are too LAZY to actually DEAL with the issue. EXAMPLE "Oh, no?? Cindy is beating girls up at school? Well, if we ground her she'll be in the house all week, begging and crying and slamming doors. Right, no...it HAD to be the other girls fault, not Cindy's...come on Cindy we are going to talk to the principal to get you out of this". Fuck me sideways, how ignorant can you be???

*end rant*

This is a hot button issue for me, seriously.

I see similar parental (non)behavior all the time. It really just drives me mad! My neighborhood has a tennis court and a "tot-lot" (playground) behind my house, in the common areas. I've been on my deck before, and heard one child or another screaming "help me, help me" at the top of his lungs - with mom standing there, not missing a beat gossiping with her friend. Sometimes, people will let their children play on the tennis court, and I've seen two of those moms stand there gossiping while their child(ren) ride and bounce on the net until it breaks. One mom walked over there (still not scolding the children), took a look, and said "I don't think we can fix that, we better leave before we get in trouble." The nets have been broken and fixed 3 times already this year.

Why are people like this allowed to breed?

I read Snoonzan's post, and being the mother of a 3 year old I can totally relate and see exactly where she is coming from. In fact, I sat there nodding my head in agreement the entire time I read it. However, I can also concur with you observation DCI want to offer this though - the two of you are referring to two completely different "types" or "classes" of parents. These parents that you speak of, DC, are not on the phone with CSR reps trying to straighten out a medical claim, or pay a bill (or any of the other million and one things a responsible parent might be doing on the phone while still trying to manage their child). No these people are are chit chatting with their girlfriends - "Hey girl, you would not believe what this ass hole did last night, let me tell you, blah, fuckity, blah...." meanwhile little Tommy is roaming around the parking lot, or tearing paper towels to shreds in the middle of an aisle somewhere . I know which "class" of parent you are referring to DC, and it INFURIATES me to witness such tolerant and uninvolved behavior from adults, much less parents.

Snoonzan, I'll tell you something else that INFURIATES me....people who try to place parents like us, who make mistakes, but are still involved and responsible, into a category with the above mentioned degenerates. What happened to your baby could happen to ANY one of us, and I'm so sorry it happened to your baby...sorrier yet that you were put through the ringer for something that was beyond your control. Similar (although not as serious) things happened to my daughter when she was small, and probably will continue to until she's grown....but it does not make me an irresponsible parent.

While my daughter is perfect in my eyes, I can say rarely does she throw fits in stores, or disobey me outright...but when she does, it's not because she's a bad child, or I'm a bad parent...it's because she's a KID. Kids misbehave and disobey and get into mischief, it's their job. However it is our job (and I believe this is what some of you are witnessing the lack of) to provide CONSEQUENCE for this disobedience. GET A CLUE PARENTS....OR WEAR A CONDOM FOR GOD SAKE.

*whew* That turned into another rant...haha. To make an entirely long point short, you are both right....just using different perspective.

Good question. I think they should have some standardized tests you have to take before you can conceive children. When my son (age 5) and I are out in public, he stays within 3 feet of me at all times. 90% of the time he's holding my hand, unless I'm carrying things and cannot do that. He doesn't touch things when we go into a store, he just looks. He doesn't throw fits if I say he can't have something. He's very well behaved, and I know that I made him that way. Granted, every parent has had their "moment of weakness" when it comes to children. Generally when you're at home, and not paying complete attention to what they're doing and they do something horrible. It happens to all parents. But seriously? This woman was walking several feet in front of her child from the get-go. My son NEVER walks behind me. Always next to me or in front of me.

My dauther is very well behaved too. I take full credit for it too. It feels good to take a three year old shopping, and be able to browse, shop and carry on in a manner as if I were alone (other than the goofy interaction between the two of us). I see women in stores, wrangling their children to the ground, or screaming at them, or the children ripping stuff off shelves...and I can just imagine how that child is/was disciplined. There was none, and that's the problem. Kids do misbehave though, and I didn't read the article with the sand thing. If it were me and no one was around, I'd scold my daughter, tell her that wasn't nice and we dont' do things like that (she's three...can understand a little better) and then carry on with my walk. Later if I could contact the individuals who built the structure, I would and have my daughter apologize.

Maybe that's just a Texas thing. Usually, when I see an inattentive parent, and the child makes something go wrong, the parent usually blames everyone else in the vicinity.

If he knocks cans off the shelf in the market, the cans should not have been stacked so high.

My very long winded point above, summed up in two sentences, hah....but yup, you got it.

I'd expect that there's a correlation, though synonymous may be pushing it a little. However, even so is that a sure fire predictor of poor parenthood or is it as much cause and effect? Does being poor or ill educated make one a poor parent per se?

Inother words; what constitutes poor parenting? Is there a clear, quantifiable, predictable and reliable definition or, perhaps more relevant -predictor? Who gets to set those criteria and would any negative determination be enforced?



I suspect there is some truth in that.:biggrin1:

No being lazy and uninterested does. I'm poor and ill educated, but I'm a damn good parent.:biggrin1:

See above in my rant..... it's prevalent where I live .

 

[LeeEJ]

She looked like she was in a hurry...

Maybe, by now, she knows that you can't be in a hurry when you're with a child. Your kid can only go so fast, so you'd better stick with his/her pace.

 

[dong20]

I read Snoonzan's post, and being the mother of a 3 year old I can totally relate and see exactly where she is coming from. In fact, I sat there nodding my head in agreement the entire time I read it. However, I can also concur with you observation DCI want to offer this though - the two of you are referring to two completely different "types" or "classes" of parents. These parents that you speak of, DC, are not on the phone with CSR reps trying to straighten out a medical claim, or pay a bill (or any of the other million and one things a responsible parent might be doing on the phone while still trying to manage their child). No these people are are chit chatting with their girlfriends - "Hey girl, you would not believe what this ass hole did last night, let me tell you, blah, fuckity, blah...." meanwhile little Tommy is roaming around the parking lot, or tearing paper towels to shreds in the middle of an aisle somewhere . I know which "class" of parent you are referring to DC, and it INFURIATES me to witness such tolerant and uninvolved behavior from adults, much less parents.

True, the problem is, armchair experts watch a blurry 60 sec slice out of a woman and her son's life and from that form a detailed social-psyschological breakdown of the parent and her fitness as a parent, how she should be publically humiliated and made to face 'consequences'. It's as reasonable (knowing nothing else about him) as concluding Hitler was really a nice guy because there's some footage of him smiling happily with his wife or playing with his dog.

I'd expect that there's a correlation, though synonymous may be pushing it a little. However, even so is that a sure fire predictor of poor parenthood or is it as much cause and effect? Does being poor or ill educated make one a poor parent per se?

Inother words; what constitutes poor parenting? Is there a clear, quantifiable, predictable and reliable definition or, perhaps more relevant -predictor? Who gets to set those criteria and would any negative determination be enforced?

I suspect there is some truth in that.:biggrin1:

No being lazy and uninterested does. I'm poor and ill educated, but I'm a damn good parent.:biggrin1:

I agree, and I don't doubt it...I hope you didn't think that the final sentence related to the other segments you cited - it didn't.:smile: