What kind of god/s do you believe in? - US / rest of world
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molotovmuffin
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" The forementioned commission confirms the conclusions of the previous international commissions , who for their part , proved that the apparitions , to which the visionaries testfiy , are a phenomenon that surpasses modern science and that all points to another level of happening. "
The third commission of scientific and medical experts investigating the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Medjugorje
The problem has always been that because supernatural events were random and fleeting it was impossible for science to test them. Then there was a breakthrough in 1981 in medjugorje { and what was then yugoslavia }. The Virgin Mary started appearing not just once but daily and has appeared daily since then but her appearances may be ending soon. I lost the scientific data but i have published it here 3 or 4 times and may look for it sometime. As i remember " the appearances of the Virgin Mary in medjugorje are the first apparitions in history to be throughly investigated by science." " The daily appearances allowed for extremely reliable and consistent data . "
The yugoslavia government was appalled by the appearances and did everything possible to stop them without success. They finally resorted to bombing runs that failed. The researchers { and i suspect they also tried stopping the meetings }stated that " nothing in the world could interrupt them ."
Or to put it another way " A french team of experts headed by Henri Joyeaux { who may have been the top medical expert in the world at that time or someone involved was } took a very serious work of examination of the visionaries. Employing the most advanced equipment and expertise it examined the internal reactions of the visionaries before , during , and after the apparitions. Likewises the synchronization of their ocular , cardiac and celebral functions. The results of the commission were very significant. They showed that the object of their attention was external to the visionaries and any external manipulation and or mutual agreement between the visionaries was excluded." For example as i remember within 1/10 of one second of each other when the Blessed Virgin Mary allegely appears all six visionaire kneel. The researchers wrote " that such a reaction can only explained by an external object that caught their attention but one that no one else could sense , feel or see " I'm paraphasing. All their eyes lock at the same time and remain so until the apparition is over. These are reactions the naked eye cannot caught but medical equipment can. Some of their other reactions have NEVER been seen before and others are physically impossible. {the transmission of sound to the inner ear stops at the exact moment for all the visionaries once the appartition starts and resumes once it has ended } They feel no pain. They are burned without any external or internal reactions.
I remember seeing a segment on unsolved mysteries as the the scientific testing was occuring. There was a tiny girl ,
surrounded by reseachers in white coats , praying while they attached wires to almost every part of her body. She had a wire crown on her head.
The thrid commission of experts finally concluded " Accordingly , one can conclude that after a deeper examination of the protagonists , facts and their effects , not only in the local framework , but also in regard to to the responsive chord of the church in general , it is well for the church to recognize the supernatural origin , and , thereby the purpose of the events in medjugorje. "
"Medjugorje is the fullment of fatima'" Pope Paul
The third commission of scientific and medical experts investigating the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Medjugorje
The problem has always been that because supernatural events were random and fleeting it was impossible for science to test them. Then there was a breakthrough in 1981 in medjugorje { and what was then yugoslavia }. The Virgin Mary started appearing not just once but daily and has appeared daily since then but her appearances may be ending soon. I lost the scientific data but i have published it here 3 or 4 times and may look for it sometime. As i remember " the appearances of the Virgin Mary in medjugorje are the first apparitions in history to be throughly investigated by science." " The daily appearances allowed for extremely reliable and consistent data . "
The yugoslavia government was appalled by the appearances and did everything possible to stop them without success. They finally resorted to bombing runs that failed. The researchers { and i suspect they also tried stopping the meetings }stated that " nothing in the world could interrupt them ."
Or to put it another way " A french team of experts headed by Henri Joyeaux { who may have been the top medical expert in the world at that time or someone involved was } took a very serious work of examination of the visionaries. Employing the most advanced equipment and expertise it examined the internal reactions of the visionaries before , during , and after the apparitions. Likewises the synchronization of their ocular , cardiac and celebral functions. The results of the commission were very significant. They showed that the object of their attention was external to the visionaries and any external manipulation and or mutual agreement between the visionaries was excluded." For example as i remember within 1/10 of one second of each other when the Blessed Virgin Mary allegely appears all six visionaire kneel. The researchers wrote " that such a reaction can only explained by an external object that caught their attention but one that no one else could sense , feel or see " I'm paraphasing. All their eyes lock at the same time and remain so until the apparition is over. These are reactions the naked eye cannot caught but medical equipment can. Some of their other reactions have NEVER been seen before and others are physically impossible. {the transmission of sound to the inner ear stops at the exact moment for all the visionaries once the appartition starts and resumes once it has ended } They feel no pain. They are burned without any external or internal reactions.
I remember seeing a segment on unsolved mysteries as the the scientific testing was occuring. There was a tiny girl ,
surrounded by reseachers in white coats , praying while they attached wires to almost every part of her body. She had a wire crown on her head.
The thrid commission of experts finally concluded " Accordingly , one can conclude that after a deeper examination of the protagonists , facts and their effects , not only in the local framework , but also in regard to to the responsive chord of the church in general , it is well for the church to recognize the supernatural origin , and , thereby the purpose of the events in medjugorje. "
"Medjugorje is the fullment of fatima'" Pope Paul
B_Hickboy
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B_Hickboy
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I should be. I was married to his sister for 23 years.
Does worshipping something make it a god?
molotovmuffin
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What does this mean?
What would be different if it was not true?
How could anyone determine if it was true or false?
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To the people who worship it, yes. I think that's a sufficient but not a necessary condition.
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"responsive chord of the church in general"?
"supernatural origin"?
"purpose"? (what is that purpose?)
These expressions indicate that this "commission of experts" was not a scientific body.
To the extent that it was, it seems to have found that something otherwise unspecified caught the attention of all the people described as "visionaries" at the same time.
None of this has any bearing on the nature of the deity/deities/theity/theities acknowledged by people here.
Breeze's post struck me as almost insanely irrelevant. At least Hickboy's incomprehensible non-sequiturs are brief.
B_Hickboy
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I'm in a hurry, because I usually don't like to waste words on assholes.
B_Hickboy
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Ding! Ding! Ding!Science worshiper on aisle twelve! Get out the golden chair and let's circumambulate him a few times!
My take is that there are no labels, tv commercials, or 'commissions of experts' that can pinch - hit for my own judgments.
midlifebear
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The post claimed it was scientific. If they'd said "We prayed and God told us it really was the BVM" I'd have left science out of it.
I prefer to chart a middle course. I look critically at "commissions of experts" but if I decide that they really do know what they're talking about (more than me), I may defer to their judgement - especially if the practical outcomes bear out their conclusions. EG, a lot of stuff in our computers now relies on quantum mechanics that is beyond my comprehension. This one, on the other hand, looks more like the bozos who "investigated" the cloth of Turin.
From the Medjugorje homepage:
They look like channelling. I especially like the Virgin Mary signing off with "Thank you". Have a nice day.
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You may have a point. But that was the third commission of experts to examine the apparitions. So they've all been duped and so has their medical equipment. They all don't know what they're doing. That might be true if it was a single commission but what's the likehood three different commissions of the leading experts in the world being duped ? You really think everyone is that stupid and can be fooled so easily. Those scientists who examined the turin said it was fake.
You simply can't say they don't know what they're doing. You have to investigate yourself or read their body of works and then publish your results and have your peers or other sceintist review your work. In this case these are mostly medical reactions. They're not hard to record or observe.
You simply can't say they don't know what they're doing. You have to investigate yourself or read their body of works and then publish your results and have your peers or other sceintist review your work. In this case these are mostly medical reactions. They're not hard to record or observe.
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