What Makes You American?

snax

Sexy Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Posts
224
Media
0
Likes
73
Points
248
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Besides being born in the USA what makes a person uniquely American?

I was had a conversation with a Finnish friend of mine over dinner last weekend and he scoffed at the idea of America actually having any semblance of culture. He said most Europeans generally think our "culture" is a joke. He surmised that nothing cultural held our country together and the love of money is the only thing that people have in common here. The only "culture" we have has been manufactured in the pursuit of wealth. He cited Las Vegas and Disneyland.

I had to think about this a while. But was wondering if you all had any thoughts on this. What do you think binds this country together?

I for one think there is a very strong American culture because something definitely happens to new immigrants here that makes them very different from the people they left behind. They become American.

The immigration aspect is important. African Americans that are descendants of former slaves have their own perspective. Native Americans certainly have their own perspective since they're the only non-immigrants in this country. With the exception of early English immigrants, almost every other nationality and race of people that emigrated to America was seeking economic prosperity and/or freedom from racial, religious, or political oppression in their native country. There are many caucasians born in America that do not associate themselves with their ancestral European culture. However, many recent immigrants very much hold onto the great things about their native culture while enjoying the freedom of rejecting the bad things of their native culture. That's the real key about being American.

Europeans have a hard time judging us because they themselves live in democratic and free nations. Their families might even be native to their country and they couldn't really consider leaving. Therefore they can sustain a single culture. What they don't realize is that 2/3rds of the world's population suffers from either poverty or oppression or both. Moving to America for millions of people means opportunity to them. If you move to America, you yourself may not prosper greatly but your children will have the opportunity to go to a public university for cheap or free and be any kind of person they want to be.

Obviously the economic opportunity aspect is a double edged sword. Yes, consumerism is rampant in America. Big business has a lot more power over our government than in many European countries and we suffer for it (especially health care). But really if all your exposure to America is our television and other media then the consumerism is all you're going to see. Being a consumer is a choice, some people live that way while others do not.

Does America have a singular culture? No, it doesn't, and it never will hopefully. That's the whole point of America. Why flee an oppressive nation to another nation that's going to force you to adapt to their culture? Immigrants can retain their culture while living in peace and having the opportunity to live an economically comfortable life. For those of us whose families have been around 150 years or more, our own families make our own culture.

However at the same time, all these different elements that make up America have created culture and spread them throughout the world purely because of our freedom. How about Jazz, Blues, Gospel, Funk, and Rock'n'Roll? I mean think of the word "rock" and what it is to rock, we invented that. Some of the best writers of the 19th and 20th centuries came from America, many even writing to help and free people in other countries.

American music: Music of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
American art: Visual arts of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
American literature: American literature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seriously, if America hasn't contributed anything culturally to the world then why would people keep moving here? Did democracy win the cold war through military action? No, one of the main reasons why democracy won the cold war is because America built its society and culture, made massive changes for civil rights, to be an example to the rest of the world of freedom and economic prosperity.

Does America have its problems? Certainly, consumerism is one of them, crime is another. Is America the best place on Earth to live? No, if it were then everyone would live here. There's no place on Earth that's the best place to live.

We are one nation, we aren't one people, we aren't one culture, but all of us united in diversity have created many new cultures and spread them across the world. We're always changing, always rejecting the old, creating something new, always moving forward. We don't have the ability to create a culture and stick with it for hundreds of years. Our creativity drives us to new things always.

I personally hope that American culture can never be defined, only listed historically, and I hope that list keeps growing because it means we're doing what we do best: change for the better.
 

findfirefox

Sexy Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Posts
2,014
Media
0
Likes
34
Points
183
Age
38
Location
Portland, OR
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male

D_Gunther Snotpole

Account Disabled
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Posts
13,632
Media
0
Likes
73
Points
193
How about Jazz, Blues, Gospel, Funk, and Rock'n'Roll? I mean think of the word "rock" and what it is to rock, we invented that. Some of the best writers of the 19th and 20th centuries came from America, many even writing to help and free people in other countries.

All true. Some might cavil that none of these were aspects of 'high' culture, whatever that creature is. But certainly some of the writing became among the world's best. And the popular stuff -- film, jazz, blues, rock -- has been taken up by the whole world. (Cultural imperialism? Pffft.)
But snax, I don't think much American writing was political, so I don't see how it freed people in other countries ... except, possibly, as giving a vision of a free nation, though movies probably did this more effectively.

I personally hope that American culture can never be defined, only listed historically, and I hope that list keeps growing because it means we're doing what we do best: change for the better.

And that indefinability is part of why America will always be subject to suggestions that it has little culture.
That, and the very pervasiveness of it.
People don't see it, like a fish doesn't see water.
 

Captain Elephant

Expert Member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Posts
801
Media
1
Likes
244
Points
263
Location
North Central Florida
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Well, I tend to look at all things from a musical point of view, and believe me, there's a lot of culture in America. I've played Bluegrass in Tennessee and the Carolinas; that vein runs deep. I went to spend a month in New Orleans to immerse myself in jazz, but wound up in South Louisiana with the Cajuns. There's a culture that's has a European influence but so unique. The music is not made, it's lived. Awesome.

Blues in Memphis and North Alabama - a lifestyle.

Austin, Texas is a singularly distinct culture in the music scene. It's so easy to classify it as Country & Western, but you would be wrong.

The thing that escapes most Europeans is the lack of purity in our culture. It is indeed a melting pot and the Cajuns borrowed from the Spanish, Blacks and French. Bluegrass and Gospel heavily influenced each other.

So while we're not pedigreed, we're much more experienced.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

Sexy Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Posts
6,196
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Location
where the sun never sets
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
And that indefinability is part of why America will always be subject to suggestions that it has little culture.
That, and the very pervasiveness of it.
People don't see it, like a fish doesn't see water.

brilliant point and one that I tried to make not-so-effectively earlier. American culture is so prevalent and pervasive that ironically the omnipresence can be confused with non-existence. As an American traveling abroad, I definitely saw it, but understand how it can be ignored by some with a certain mindset. Picking up girls in Romania I'd be flipping through all of my CDs looking for something they'd like, and I have plenty of international CDs, but usually I'd get to Eminem and they'd be "oh! Eminem! I love him!!" I've seen people trying to breakdance in Poland. Have been in several crowded cinemas in Amsterdam, London and Bangkok playing Hollywood films. Video games (American invention) are deeply entrenched in Japan. Should I mention again the 24-hour Starcraft (American-produced video game often played over American-invented internet) channel in Korea? Or the fact that in any crowded subway car in Seoul you can usually count 5-10 pairs of Converse hi-tops and a dozen Pepsi cans?
It can be argued that other cultures have made more substantial contributions to history. It can be argued that in their day certain nations achieved a greater militaristic, technological or mercantile hegemony (debatable). It can be argued (if you want to be an ass) that certain nations and peoples have produced "better" culture. But none have even come close to the kind of absolute pervasiveness and ubiquity that American culture enjoys.

Not to say that we deserve all the credit for all of it. As others have mentioned, American culture is a mixture of all other cultures. We absorb and borrow (and occasionally steal or try to pass off as our own) a bit of this and a bit of that, reforge it as something uniquely ours, spit it back out and the rest of the world picks it up and does the same thing, adopting parts that they like, reinterpreting the things they want to make their own. To an extent every culture in history has done this with all other cultures they came into contact with... it's just much faster and easier to observe in a world with internet, telephones, television, and rapid trans-continental travel. America has grown up in this world and its unique culture is a reflection of this new reality.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

Sexy Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Posts
6,196
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Location
where the sun never sets
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Well, I tend to look at all things from a musical point of view, and believe me, there's a lot of culture in America. I've played Bluegrass in Tennessee and the Carolinas; that vein runs deep. I went to spend a month in New Orleans to immerse myself in jazz, but wound up in South Louisiana with the Cajuns. There's a culture that's has a European influence but so unique. The music is not made, it's lived. Awesome.

Blues in Memphis and North Alabama - a lifestyle.

Austin, Texas is a singularly distinct culture in the music scene. It's so easy to classify it as Country & Western, but you would be wrong.

The thing that escapes most Europeans is the lack of purity in our culture. It is indeed a melting pot and the Cajuns borrowed from the Spanish, Blacks and French. Bluegrass and Gospel heavily influenced each other.

So while we're not pedigreed, we're much more experienced.

Might as well throw in the very unique scenes in Seattle, Detroit, New York and Chicago. Fantastic musical traditions in each place.
 

B_Swimming Lad

Experimental Member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Posts
692
Media
0
Likes
15
Points
163
WW1 killed pretty much an entire generation of European men. By the end of the war, Russia was collapsing into civil war, the Austrian Empire was disintegrating, and the UK, France and Germany had all completely lost the will to fight. The US was a minor power at the time, but their entry into the war was essentially like a featherweight jumping into the ring with two heavyweight champions after they had been boxing each other for 60 rounds and could both barely stand up anymore. It definitely made a difference. The war would have still ended without American intervention because Germany's chief ally was imploding, but the treaties drawn up would not have forced Germany into the position of loser. It would have been closer to a stalemate, like I said.
It might be fair to say that we would all potentially be better off had the Americans never got involved in WWI, because the treaties would not have been so one-sided and unfair to Germany and the conditions that led to WWII may have been different. To say the Americans had zero impact is not fair.

I agree that there was an impact. But it was not significant enough for americans to claim that they were the nation that heroically jumped in and won the war as is so often sugested.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

Sexy Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Posts
6,196
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Location
where the sun never sets
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
After rereading the thread, I still don't feel like anyone has made a good effort to answer earllogjam's original questions. I'll give it a go.

B The only "culture" we have has been manufactured in the pursuit of wealth. He cited Las Vegas and Disneyland.

by this standard, all the artwork of the Renaissance, including Da Vinci's Last Supper and the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, is also not real culture, as it was created by commission from the Catholic Church. Just as much a work of corporate art as Ronald McDonald or the Spice Girls.

What do you think binds this country together?

Aside from a common religion or genetic background, the same things that bind together most countries.
-common interests (baseball, football, American Idol, Seinfeld)
-national pride
-fear of difference
-shared geographic location
-people outside the country grouping us all together and calling us names



I for one think there is a very strong American culture because something definitely happens to new immigrants here that makes them very different from the people they left behind. They become American.

Agreed. It's the music, film, literature, food, fashion and other trends that draws them in... all the things enjoyed by their peers that they also start to enjoy and identify as their own. As for changes that mark someone as American, it depends on the person, since the culture that a person comes from might be different or similar in different ways from American culture.

In general, though, Americans tend to be
-highly individualistic, placing greater importance on self-actualization than on the needs of family or society at large
-materialistic, enjoying the secular and often eschewing, or only paying lip-service to the spiritual
-motivated to succeed, instilled with the notion that upward mobility is a reality not a fantasy and that anything is possible with enough willpower.
-a bit entitled, many Americans, having been born into affluence, feel its somehow their right to live comfortable lives
-indifferent toward global affairs, they are more concerned with what's happening in their own country.
-a bit fat and lazy, it's true
-an odd mix of sexual contradictions, in some ways hyper-sexualized, in other ways deeply neurotic about sex, this is the clash of Puritanism vs. the sexualization of everything in the media. I think the latter is winning but the former is still holding on
-open to speaking their mind, whether they be poor or wealthy, white or black, male or female, young or old, educated or not, Americans feel like their opinions deserve to be heard. This can be jarring to cultures where certain segments of the population (women, children, the working class, etc) are supposed to hold their tongue.
-idealistic, we get told we're the greatest country in the world and that there's no downside to Democracy or capitalism, sometimes we believe it
-a bit high-strung, just from my observations of other more laid-back cultures. I guess if you wanted to spin this positively you could say we're more proactive or results-oriented
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

Sexy Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Posts
6,196
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Location
where the sun never sets
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
I agree that there was an impact. But it was not significant enough for americans to claim that they were the nation that heroically jumped in and won the war as is so often sugested.

The American contribution to both world wars, and WWI in particular, is often overstated, yes.

[edit]

I think the better way of saying this, though, is that the American contribution to both world wars is as often overstated as it is understated. Both usually for purposes of politics or pride. There.
 

Elmer Gantry

LPSG Legend
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Posts
47,213
Media
53
Likes
258,658
Points
518
Location
Australia
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
The Americans were certainly not '3 or 4 years late' in 1941.
And they had been doing a great deal to assist the British prior to their official entry.
And their entry was probably pivotal to the outcome of the war.
NIC is right.

Not trying to throw petrol on the fire but you were in 1918.

And if it wasn't for my ancestors making a last man standing defence of Kokoda in early 1942 (whilst the legendary Douglas MaArthur was still getting it togethor) then my country would have had the rising sun for a flag for a while.

Isolationism was one of the more tragic pieces of popular opinion in the US as was the sympathisers that masqueraded as captains of industry. The USA's influence in both WW's was instrumental but the "we saved your ass" line of argument is something, well, that makes you uniquely American.
 

Elmer Gantry

LPSG Legend
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Posts
47,213
Media
53
Likes
258,658
Points
518
Location
Australia
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
Another telling tid bit from that era was my granfathers generation that fought under the US ended the war hating them only slightly less than the Japanese that massacred their friends.
 

Drifterwood

Superior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Posts
18,677
Media
0
Likes
2,811
Points
333
Location
Greece
You can flame me all you like, but from a very personal POV, whilst the US has the death penalty and uses it, it will remain a barbaric culture and not one to which I would wish to belong.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

Sexy Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Posts
6,196
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Location
where the sun never sets
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Not trying to throw petrol on the fire but you were in 1918.

And if it wasn't for my ancestors making a last man standing defence of Kokoda in early 1942 (whilst the legendary Douglas MaArthur was still getting it togethor) then my country would have had the rising sun for a flag for a while.

Isolationism was one of the more tragic pieces of popular opinion in the US as was the sympathisers that masqueraded as captains of industry. The USA's influence in both WW's was instrumental but the "we saved your ass" line of argument is something, well, that makes you uniquely American.

First, Rubi's not from the US.

Second, why should we feel bad for being smart? WW1 was quite possibly the most pointless war ever fought in human history. It's still being argued who exactly started the dumb thing. The only reason Russia, Germany, England,Austria aand France got involved in what was really none of their business anyway was because of an over-complicated system of treaties and pacts between the European powers that drew them all into war, a vast network of imperial empires that drew the rest of the globe into war (that the Americans had the foresight to extricate themselves from back in 1776), and an overeagerness by all parties involved to show off their new technological killing toys. There were dorks just itching to march off and fight in The Great War, thinking it would be a grand ol' time. There was no clear cut right or wrong side to the first world war. No holocaust. No fascism or communism on the march. No megalomaniacal villains like Hitler, Mussolini or Hirohito. It was smart for the US not to get involved in your mess up to the point that we finally did, and its still debatable whether or not we should have at all. If the Germans were more skilled diplomats we probably never would have.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

Sexy Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Posts
6,196
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Location
where the sun never sets
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Another telling tid bit from that era was my granfathers generation that fought under the US ended the war hating them only slightly less than the Japanese that massacred their friends.

So Australians from your grandfather's generation don't mind so much when you massacre their friends? I would have never suspected that. The Australians I know are all pretty decent people and loyal to their friends. You're right, that is telling.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

Sexy Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Posts
6,196
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
183
Location
where the sun never sets
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
The major turning point in which America joined WW1 was when the Lusitania sunk of the Irish coast when bombed by German U-boats.

That's not when we joined the war. There were 128 Americans on board, though, and this point was used by propagandists in the US who were in favor of joining the war on the UK's side. Germany's agreement with Mexico to help them take back Texas should the US join the war against Germany was also part of it. Like I said, it was bad diplomacy on Germany's part.
 

D_Martin van Burden

Account Disabled
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Posts
3,229
Media
0
Likes
41
Points
258
I don't see pervasiveness or ubiquity as all those great of qualities; I really don't. I think it makes it more convenient for me to travel abroad, because I can trust that a McDonald's hamburger tastes approximately the same here or overseas. I can talk to people about brand choices, American actors, shoes, or cars and people abroad may know what I'm talking about. However, this just refocuses, and maybe even equates, "culture" with "conspicuous consumerism" and I just don't feel emotions stirred or positive values stoked in it.

Maybe it's because I'm a working class guy or I don't really have a character liking for people who just show a bunch of money.

Further, I think there's a strange juggling act between loving American products and industry overseas (because it comes with the financial benefit of enhanced economic growth) and loathing the fact that they are everywhere (aspirations foresaking, maybe, ethnocentrism -- or perhaps more appropriate patriotism). Seeing us all over the place, I think that fuels some argument about how we're, if any self-identified culture, being one of excess.

I appreciate posters mentioning art, music, literature, etc. Those works speak more toward what I was thinking. Second, thinkers and philosophers abroad like de Tocqueville were certainly not American, but they understood how Americans work.

I think my views might be different if I were alive when America was trying to become its own country. Can you imagine that? True, those people immigrated from England, but they fought for religious and political freedom and exercised powers to effect national change. I guess I can't grasp that because of how democracy has changed in its ramifications. But, hey, that would be something, wouldn't it? To be an American fighting for the privilege to be called that. Now, it's just taken-for-granted and I admit that I feel the same way.