What Makes You American?

[2322]

Great post, jason.

great post Jason.

Good postings, NIC and Jason!!

Fabulous post overall!

Thank you all very kindly. I put the effort into such things only when I know others I respect are likely to read them. I'm glad my words found some of those people.

 

[Drifterwood]

No my point being i would never put someone from France or Germany on the spot like that in such an insulting way.

Agreed. I am glad I have got to know many Americans in the last few years. Otherwise it's hard to get beyond the easy stereotypes.

 

[YourAvgGuy]

For a long time I believed what was taught to me by my grandmother. She is a prideful yet practical woman, loving of the finer things though still a farm girl at heart. She is proud of many things but nothing more than her family. She had drilled into me just who my ancestors were and why I should be proud of them. To her, their history in this country is what makes her American. This seemed reasonable to me.​

The older I get, the more interesting all things become. One ancestor sentenced another unrelated ancestor to death for witchcraft. A few ancestors fought in the Revolution, but also a few were loyalists. Some owned slaves, some fought Indians, others became such friends with Indians that their homes were safe from attack in King Philip's and the French and Indian wars. Two families arrived on Mayflower and one young man of 16, William Harlow, appeared in Plymouth out of nowhere! Going back to Europe I have some ancestors who were saints and kings, some who were bastards, some who were traitors, others outright tyrants like Erik Blood Axe (now there's a family name I should resurrect) who killed three of his brothers to ascend the throne of Norway over 1100 years ago. Ancestry like this isn't remotely unusual for most Americans, but what is unusual is that it is so well documented and that I know about it. Such is the privilege of being able to afford full time genealogists.​

Their stories astound me. My eighth g. grandmother led a party of workmen, some hired Indians, together with a household's worth of goods and livestock and sailed from Staten Island to Orange county, New York to settle a patent. She was the first white woman to live in the county and she did it all at the age of 16 and without a husband. Her name was Sarah Wells.​

My sixth g. grandmother fought at Forty Fort, manning a cannon when her husband fell in battle. She survived the massacre by playing dead and later refugeed here to Orange county where she met her new husband and stayed. Her name was Adeline Terry.​

Richard Smith, my seventh g. grandfather supposedly made a deal with the Indians of Long Island that he would be given all the land which he could encircle in one day while riding a bull. Being wily, Smith waited for the summer solstice and then rode from dawn to dusk on the bull, stopped for lunch, and the resulting area became Smithtown, NY.​

To me, this was impressive stuff. It gave me the impression that, "I was here first." I felt lordly, aristocratic, and (frankly) better than everyone else who couldn't match my pedigree.​

So large and full is the ship of fools that it can be difficult to know you're even a passenger.​

As I grew, my horizons broadened, my thought processes became more independent, and I began to read voraciously about the Voltaire, the Enlightenment, and the founding of the country. Travel made me meet people from all over the country, see and experience new things, and think new thoughts.​

Today I count myself as an American not by virtue of birth or pedigree, but by the ineluctable conclusion that Americans are united by hope. The ennui of the old world has no place here. Our ancestors surrendered their lives as they knew them, took leave of family they knew they would never see or perhaps even contact ever again, and journeyed out to the New World in hope that they would be free to be who they wanted and live how they wanted. Hardship was in inexhaustible supply yet they stayed. Some prospered, others met with ruination.​

If Americans believe they live in the greatest country in the world then it is because their parents and ancestors from the old world tell them so. Always we are told how lucky we are to live here, how much was sacrificed to come here to make a better life, how no other nation offers so many freedoms.​

An American carries that hope everywhere, even her deepest native critics make their criticisms in hope to change the inequities they see in the American systems of society. If there is no hope, then why else would they bother? Though it's been said before, Americans are optimists even at our most pessimistic. We attempt to always change the status quo to something that better suits what we wish our country to be. We are a nation of nationalities, a United Nations of people with little relation to each other beyond the single ideal that America is a slate always capable of being erased and redrawn; we compete with each other, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, occasionally uniting and then only in tragedy.​

We are not a monolithic culture. We are not Disneyland, we are not Las Vegas, we are not Madonna nor Nike nor McDonald's. To see us singularly by our commerce is to see only obliquely and I think that's no mistake. We do not offer just one culture, but many. American culture is syncretic, ineffable in execution yet pervasive in effect. Despite what the Finnish gentleman says, America has contributed enormously to all the arts, on occasion creating whole new genres that find world-wide popularity. No single cultural achievement is the product of the nation as a whole, only of a single part of the nation. Perhaps that is why, when those outside America seek a single definition of it, they are left only with considering her government and her business.​

I dearly love our constitution, consider it a brilliant piece of work, think it should only be tampered with on the most gravest of occasions. If anything binds us it is that one thing though I believe most Americans would cite the flag, our alleged shared history, or Judeo-Christian ethics.​

People around the world still come here flat broke, legally or illegally. Some come with skills and knowledge of immense value, others with nothing more than their two hands and a strong back. We are a place to dream of, to flee to, to visit, to become rich, to practice faith without persecution. America is a place as much to be enjoyed as exploited. Other countries are more prosperous, have more freedoms, have fewer problems, yet America still stands, even if tarnished of late, as place where hope reigns above all other things.​

Far smarter men and women than I have had a say in their views of America. I've selected a few to share to prove that the opinions of America are as varied as the nation itself.​

------------------------------------------------------​

“The American lives even more for his goals, for the future, than the European. Life for him is always becoming, never being.” ~Albert Einstein

America, you know, they always separate people because of race. They've been able to convince, 'The niggers are coming.' You know, the diversity that America has is so special. It's starting to really become a cool thing for young people. Not only because there are more mixes of people, but because people are more open-minded about each other. So I think in the future, America has a great, great opportunity, and mostly because of hip-hop. ~Russell Simmons

America is the most grandiose experiment the world has seen, but, I am afraid, it is not going to be a success. ~Sigmund Freud

They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but they kept only one; they promised to take our land, and they did. ~Red Cloud

Perhaps, after all, America never has been discovered. I myself would say that it had merely been detected. ~Oscar Wilde

Sitting at the table doesn't make you a diner, unless you eat some of what's on that plate. Being here in America doesn't make you an American. Being born here in America doesn't make you an American. ~Malcolm X

We on this continent should never forget that men first crossed the Atlantic not to find soil for their ploughs but to secure liberty for their souls. ~Robert J. McCracken

America is a large friendly dog in a small room. Every time it wags its tail it knocks over a chair. ~Arnold Toynbee

There is nothing the matter with Americans except their ideals. The real American is all right; it is the ideal American who is all wrong. ~G.K. Chesterton

If America ever passes out as a great nation, we ought to put on our tombstone: America died from a delusion she had Moral Leadership. ~Will Rogers

The great social adventure of America is no longer the conquest of the wilderness but the absorption of fifty different peoples. ~Walter Lippman

America is the only nation in history which miraculously has gone directly from barbarism to degeneration without the usual interval of civilization. ~Georges Clemenceau

What is the essence of America? Finding and maintaining that perfect, delicate balance between freedom "to" and freedom "from." ~Marilyn vos Savant

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America is so vast that almost everything said about it is likely to be true, and the opposite is probably equally true. ~James T. Farrell

Masterfully written and extremely eloquent! Thanks for composing your thoughts and sharing with us, Jason. You've captured, I think, what many us attempted to do. THANK YOU!

 

[ClaireTalon]

I have stated this on various occasions, my guy Frank is a first-generation immigrant, he moved to the US 22 years ago. Prior to that, he had spent a few months here for pilot training, but that was somewhere around Ft. Bumfuck, AZ, in the middle of nowhere. So during his first contacts with the more urban sides of America, which had been a few months of Miami, then Seattle, his mental picture of us had been stamped by TV series like Dallas, Dynasty, Hart to Hart and Detective Rockford. Needless to say, that gave him a bit of a culture shock.

 

[kalipygian]

Funny how Americans LOVE to drop that "We saved your arses in world war I and II".

Hmm, both times you only entered because you was attacked. Both times you made money of and boosted your economy through arm sales, selling to both sides. And both fucking times you was either 3 or 4 years late.

You did not save us, stop thinking that. By the time you entered both wars, it was already on the slope to decline. Fucking ignorance.

Another demonstration of 'fucking ignorance', in both cases Germany was in a position of dominance on the continent, and likely would have prevailed without the application of the considerable resources of the US. There was a strong pacifist and neutralist sentiment in the country prior to both wars, not something to be ashamed of. Britain was provided with extremely considerable material support while the US was technically still neutral. In both cases it was closer to two years after France and Britain declared war on Germany, in WWI the US was not attacked directly.

Assigned reading: WWI and II from the perspective of the British Prime Ministers during both: Herbert Henry Asquith PM PC, earl of Oxford and Asquith, 'Topography and Strategy in the War'; Winston Spencer-Churchill PM PC KCB: 'Gathering Storm', 'Finest Hour', 'Grand alliance', 'Hinge of Fate' 'Closing the Ring', 'Triumph and Tragedy'.

You are a contender for the most ignorant person on this site distinction.

Edit: a further point re WWI: Emperor Karl of Austria Hungary, shortly after his accession, made serious peace overtures, Germany was also willing to make peace in 1916 on the conditions of the status quo ante bellum, the British Prime Minister and Foreign secretary were agreeable, France and Italy, because of a desire for territorial gains, with the expectation of the entry of the US into the war, strung Emperor Karl along, and eventually rejected the peace offer.

 

[chico8]

Another demonstration of 'fucking ignorance', in both cases Germany was in a position of dominance on the continent, and likely would likely have prevailed without the application of the considerable resources of the US. There was a strong pacifist and neutralist sentiment in the country prior to both wars, not something to be ashamed of. Britain was provided with extremely considerable material support while the US was technically still neutral.

You are a contender for the most ignorant person on this site distinction.

I would suggest you do a little more reading in regards to WWI.

The misnamed "Spanish Flu" epidemic of 1918-19 probably had more to do with the outcome of the war than any other factor.

Incidentally, it was so called because the US upon declaration of war, chose to muzzle the press. WWI was Wilson's way of taking control of the US. His mostly self appointed spy apparatus set US freedoms back a good century and laid the base for 20th century American paranoia.

The flu most likely originated in Kansas and was spread by American generals' ignorance and lack of concern for conscripts lives.

The flu hindered English and French troops more than any other factor. If the US hadn't intervened, the war would have ended not only sooner, but with a much lower casualty rate. The earlier end to the war probably would have meant a much more lenient Treaty of Versailles.

Also, if Wilson had kept his League of Nations separate from the Treaty negotiations, there probably wouldn't have been a WWII.

American idealism is generally disastrous when exported.

 

[chico8]

We on this continent should never forget that men first crossed the Atlantic not to find soil for their ploughs but to secure liberty for their souls. ~Robert J. McCracken

That is the biggest fallacy of American history.

Immigrants came almost exclusively for economic reasons. In the earliest days of the North American colonies, only the wealthy could afford to cross the Atlantic.

It wasn't until the railroads began subsidizing trans atlantic fares that immigration became affordable to the average European.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

Immigrants came almost exclusively for economic reasons. In the earliest days of the North American colonies, only the wealthy could afford to cross the Atlantic.

I thought most of them came here to get circumcised.

 

[kalipygian]

I would suggest you do a little more reading in regards to WWI.

The misnamed "Spanish Flu" epidemic of 1918-19 probably had more to do with the outcome of the war than any other factor.

Incidentally, it was so called because the US upon declaration of war, chose to muzzle the press. WWI was Wilson's way of taking control of the US. His mostly self appointed spy apparatus set US freedoms back a good century and laid the base for 20th century American paranoia.

The flu most likely originated in Kansas and was spread by American generals' ignorance and lack of concern for conscripts lives.

The flu hindered English and French troops more than any other factor. If the US hadn't intervened, the war would have ended not only sooner, but with a much lower casualty rate. The earlier end to the war probably would have meant a much more lenient Treaty of Versailles.

Also, if Wilson had kept his League of Nations separate from the Treaty negotiations, there probably wouldn't have been a WWII.

American idealism is generally disastrous when exported.

I have been reading history for somewhat over forty years.

I am not ignorant of the spanish flu pandemic, here in Alaska, some communities experienced greater than 90% fatality. In has in the past been referred to as the 1919 epidemic, and following the end of the war, I see the spike was actually in November of 1918. Flu virus transmission is greatest at temperatures below 40F, this is why it is a wintertime thing.
This is still after the collapse of Austria-Hungary and Germany, resources were exhausted and people refused to continue to fight. They were not militarily defeated, at the end of the war, there was not a single allied soldier on the territory of either country. Emperor Karl's 1916 prediction came true: 'if we do not make peace, our peoples' will do it over our heads'.

US soldiers actually did very little on the battlefield, it was the expectation of the resources being applied that first prolonged the war, then effected the outcome.

Wilson was not in a position to prevail over the self interest of the Prime and Foreign Ministers of France and Italy in the postwar negotiations.

 

[2322]

That is the biggest fallacy of American history.

Immigrants came almost exclusively for economic reasons. In the earliest days of the North American colonies, only the wealthy could afford to cross the Atlantic.

It wasn't until the railroads began subsidizing trans atlantic fares that immigration became affordable to the average European.

Yes, quite a few of them did have money. The pilgrims weren't poor. Not everyone on Mayflower was a pilgrim either. Quite a few of what were called, "strangers," members of the party who were not Separatists, still in communion with the Church of England, went with them. These were men who came exclusively for the economic opportunities, not religious freedoms. The problem though was one of labor. All these relatively wealthy people needed labor and needed it now. That began the process of indentured servitude in the colonies. Nearly 75% of the arrivals, not counting actual slaves, in the colonies prior to the Revolution were indentured servants.

Some, like my eighth great-grandfather Thomas Bull, the man who married Sarah Wells, didn't even know it! He was the younger son of an English stone mason who learned the trade of his father and then removed to Ulster where he worked and saved enough money, five guineas, for passage to New York. Upon arrival in 1720 he was suddenly and dishonestly informed that the fare price had been raised and so would have to be sold into indenture to pay the difference. As he argued with the ship's master, he was overheard by a man passing by who was desperately in need of artisans and he was hired on the spot. The man paid the full remainder of the fare and struck a bargain with 16 year old Thomas. If he would venture far north and help settle the man's claim in the Waywayanda patent, he would help Thomas build and live there.

By 1722, two years later, Thomas was free from his contract. His employer's claim was immediately next to that of Sarah's. Sarah herself was an indentured servant. She was born somewhere in New Jersey but orphaned and given over to the Denne family of Staten Island. The Denne's were childless and eventually adopted Sarah as their daughter. Though Sarah settled the claim first, the Dennes eventually came up to join her and it soon became obvious that strong (she rowed between Staten Island and Manhattan nearly every day), willfull, and intelligent Sarah had a thing for the young hunky Thomas. Denne warned Sarah about falling in love with, "a no good Irishman," but relented when Sarah explained that Thomas was really from Wolverhampton! The Dennes gave Sarah 100 acres and Thomas later received another 100 acres from his employer upon release and soon they were engaged. The stone house that Thomas built was finished and they waited for the minister to come around to marry them. This was no mean feat as there were next to no other white people living in the entire county but it was growing quickly. When the minister arrived everything was set for the wedding and the opening of Thomas and Sarah's new house. A problem arose when it was discovered that the Dennes had neglected to publish the legally required banns of the pending nuptials. As there were no newspapers there, no bann could be published so instead the minister went to each door of the house and shouted loudly into the wilderness, "Does anyone object to this marriage?" As he heard no objection, the marriage took place.

Sarah and Thomas had nine children together and Sarah's kindness to the Indians in the area was repaid when her house was spared from attack during the various uprisings. Thomas died at aged 66 but Sarah, who regularly rowed up the Hudson from Newburgh to Poughkeepsie to grind wheat, lived to 102! Today their house, built by Thomas is still standing and still occupied by Bull family members.

Masterfully written and extremely eloquent! Thanks for composing your thoughts and sharing with us, Jason. You've captured, I think, what many us attempted to do. THANK YOU!

You're most welcome. I appreciate the consideration .

 

[odd_fish_9]

You are a contender for the most ignorant person on this site distinction.

A strong contender.

Edit: a further point re WWI: Emperor Karl of Austria Hungary, shortly after his accession, made serious peace overtures, Germany was also willing to make peace in 1916 on the conditions of the status quo ante bellum, the British Prime Minister and Foreign secretary were agreeable, France and Italy, because of a desire for territorial gains, with the expectation of the entry of the US into the war, strung Emperor Karl along, and eventually rejected the peace offer.

A curious thesis. Have you been reading A.J.P. Taylor again?

 

[sortofbigthen]

The main hallmark of being American are an utterly overblown sense of your own importance.

Greatest of all is the insistance that you've lead the world from day one, yet have actually been generations behind every - even the supposed liberty you claim you fought for. Thankfully you have enough national mythologizing to ensure you never have to teach Yank larvae the truth.


Oh and being fat.

 

[lorne]

Besides being born in the USA what makes a person uniquely American?

I was had a conversation with a Finnish friend of mine over dinner last weekend and he scoffed at the idea of America actually having any semblance of culture. He said most Europeans generally think our "culture" is a joke. He surmised that nothing cultural held our country together and the love of money is the only thing that people have in common here. The only "culture" we have has been manufactured in the pursuit of wealth. He cited Las Vegas and Disneyland.

I had to think about this a while. But was wondering if you all had any thoughts on this. What do you think binds this country together?

I for one think there is a very strong American culture because something definitely happens to new immigrants here that makes them very different from the people they left behind. They become American.

Id bring up the huge amount of deco architecture in florida/ New york (which have 2 distinctly different culture) I would point out the creation of production of the majority of modern day music, America also has a culture unlike any others (well others have them just not as big) the celebrity "nation" The high percentage film production in cal has created an odd culture to the entire western coast involving the possibility the site of someone or somewhere famous no matter how big or small. If a foreign friend told me my nation had no culture I'd point out that; one his country is barely the size of some cities(exaggeration) and that in new york allow there ad many distinct cultures, Americas problem is it's so big and has so many people that all the individual cultures that are spread over an entire continent as apposed to a couple thousand km. Dallas and Jersey and San Fansisco all have different cultures and are almost the same distance as Finland, Spain and Russia. Sooo to end the rample America should be looked at for "cultures" like the EU cause if you ask what culture is the EU Union you can't say one (yes there are many) and you can't say one about the states. At the end of the day just look to accents and you'll see a slight difference in types.

 

[Ethyl]

Ich bin ein Berliner.

You're a doughnut? :biggrin1:

 

[B_Swimming Lad]

Another demonstration of 'fucking ignorance', in both cases Germany was in a position of dominance on the continent, and likely would have prevailed without the application of the considerable resources of the US. There was a strong pacifist and neutralist sentiment in the country prior to both wars, not something to be ashamed of. Britain was provided with extremely considerable material support while the US was technically still neutral. In both cases it was closer to two years after France and Britain declared war on Germany, in WWI the US was not attacked directly.

Germany was not in any position of dominance when you decided to join the great war. The Austrian Empire was colapsing meaning the loss of Germanys primary allie.
The British Empire, Russia and France ha already been fighting three years! Your troops fought for nine miserable months.

Edit: a further point re WWI: Emperor Karl of Austria Hungary, shortly after his accession, made serious peace overtures, Germany was also willing to make peace in 1916 on the conditions of the status quo ante bellum, the British Prime Minister and Foreign secretary were agreeable, France and Italy, because of a desire for territorial gains, with the expectation of the entry of the US into the war, strung Emperor Karl along, and eventually rejected the peace offer.

I have no idea what you are talking about, and clearly nor do you. Are these books you've been reading novels?? And oh... were they written by americans??

 

[odd_fish_9]

Besides being born in the USA what makes a person uniquely American?

Despite some long posts here, wallowing in the minutæ of family trees, I'd say that being American has nothing to do with ancestry. It is a matter of outlook. One can become American in a way one cannot - lacking that proper ancestry - become, say, German or Armenian.

We all know the quote attributed to Margaret Thatcher, "Europe will never be like America. Europe is a product of history. America is a product of philosophy." It was, and to a large degree still is.

 

[Principessa]

While my lineage is not as impressive or grandiose as thatgal or Jason_els (two of my fave people here), my lineage is interesting to me.

Some of my father's ancestors were bought here in slave ships. One of my paternal aunts tried tracing the family back to Africa; but that is an extremely difficult task for most black Americans. Slaves didn't count as people so records are spotty at best; also slave families were often sold apart. She got as far as Ireland. :biggrin1: It's true, some of my ancestors have been traced back to County Kilkenny in Ireland. Makes sense as most of my relatives on my dad's side are lighter than Halle Berry and have naturally auburn hair and green eyes.

On my mothers' side were Cherokee Indians in South Carolina. My maternal great-great grandfather Cudja Hay was a full-blooded, land-owning Cherokee Indian. I know that doesn't sound like much. However, it is a big deal when you realize he owned this land in 1813! He was also far enough inland that he missed being rounded up for the Trail of Tears. He had a little over 80 acres most of which was sold off when my grandmother was still a baby. There's 20 acres left which my mom and her sister have inherited. The other interesting thing about my moms ancestors are that they were free-born blacks not slaves. My maternal-grandmother was very proud of this fact and had quite the snooty attitude about the fact her people had never been slaves.


In conclusion, some of my ancestors were bought here in slave ships, some were white slave owners, and some may have met both of their boats.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

The main hallmark of being American are an utterly overblown sense of your own importance..

There is nothing at all even remotely unique about the American overblown sense of his own importance. Peruse any such topic as this and you'll find it's excruciatingly commonplace in nearly every country in the world. The difference is Americans are probably closer to being right than anyone else out there, the rest of the world knows it, and this makes them mad. So we end up posts like the above.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

I have no idea what you are talking about, and clearly nor do you.

For someone from Oxford, your English could be better.

 

[BIGBULL29]

It is interesting to note that, apart from the Middle East, most anti-American sentiment comes from Western Europe.

There's nothing you can do about America being the world's only superpower.

If Europeans hate everything about America, then why don't they take every piece of America out of their countries; that is, import nothing from the US, including its inventions and ideas. No American restaurants and store chains shall be allowed in your countries, nor shall its music be sold and played on radio stations; fashion trend imports shall also be forbidden.

Get logical. Be rational.

In all honesty, I've been so insulted in Europe for being American, that I have little desire to ever return. I was treated brutally because of George Bush's policies. I don't dislike Europeans, but I dislike the general anti-American sentiment that is nothing but utter discrimination. Discrimination in Europe? Those non-barbaric, civilized countries of the EU?
You mean that trans-Atlantic civility for which all Americans yearn so strongly.