What Makes you British?

[B_Swimming Lad]

Grow up.

No. Arsehole.

 

[2322]

Unluckily for us Charles is an idiot. I hope that when the time comes he will just abdicate in favour of William.

Charles has stated repeatedly that he will not abdicate in favor of William. The queen has also stated she will not abdicate. Unless Charles predeceases William, there will be a George VII. The fly in the ointment is Camilla. It would take an act of parliament for her not to become queen. My wager is that the royal household is betting that Diana's memory will fade while Camilla's stock will rise and by the time it happens, the public won't object to her becoming queen.

I don't think Charles is an idiot. He's at least of average intelligence. Somehow though I get the idea that he's not been terribly happy most of his life. Perhaps now things are better for him. He doesn't seem to have much self-esteem either and that may put a chip on his shoulder when, and if, he ascends the throne. William is more of the bicycling monarch sort which is probably for the best if the monarchy is to continue. No matter what happens, however, it makes a fun show for we across the pond.

 

[Guy-jin]

Knowing my nation's history and living here most of my life. Also, travelling in around 70 other countries and having many varied discussions about how England (and Britain) is perceived has given me an added perspective. I also did a quick google, (just for fun) and found as many yea as nay viewpoints. When given such a consensus I tend to follow my judgment.

The number of countries you've traveled and the number of conversations you've had about how England is perceived do not have anything to do with the Encyclopedia/Dictionary definitions of the words "ethnicity," "nationality," or which heading the word "English" falls under because it isn't a debatable opinion. It's a fact.

And since this seems to be a factor that you feel makes your opinion more valid than others, I've been to my share of countries, including being a resident in and student in multiple countries. My stance on that issue is that it has no bearing on this conversation.

Yes, I did and I stand by it in terms of English [not] being a de jure enthnicity. I don't believe it is except by a narrow defintion. FWIW, you didn't qualify your definition when you made it, in my discussion with Sr Rubi I did, at length.

Certainly, English could be defined as an ethnicty on the basis of country of birth, but that's only one of numerous criteria by which 'ethnicity' is commonly defined. For me, given the fact that someone born here can be 'English' in passport terms only, it's simply not enough, something more is needed. In the same way a person born in Texas is not necessarily American.

I already posted the dictionary definition of the term "ethnicity." Again, it isn't up for debate, and you can't "believe" in its definition unless you're saying you don't "believe" the dictionary. I suppose that can be your stance, but it's not a very strong one.

Don't be facetious. Not believing English is an enthnic grouping other than one of nationality doesn't preclude someone being part English, much as someone could be part French, for example.

Or, I assume, full English, either. But why stop there, sir? If that's your stance, then anyone of Japanese, Chinese, Indian, African, and whatever else descent would be wrong in calling him or herself that ethnicity unless he or she were born there, even though that's quite literally the definition of the word ethnicity.

In this there is no real right or wrong, merely opinion. There's no necessity for us to agree, I'm not trying to persuade you, merely expressing my view. And, on this I have said all I shall.

I just exemplified why it's not a matter of opinion in my last paragraph. I'm not going to bother again. I am attempting to convince you that you're at least confusing terms when you're using them here, because you're showing a clear lack of understanding what the word "ethnicity" means, and hopefully helping you so that when you do have one of your many conversations about this issue in the future, you'll be on the correct side of it.

Feel free not to reply. In all honesty, your argument here is with dictionaries and encyclopedias, not with me. I won't press the issue further.

Feel free. Water off a duck's back.

Condescending smilies aren't my style. I'd prefer to keep things friendly, and I never presume to be more intelligent or knowledgeable than anyone else because chances are there's at least one thing any given person on earth will know more about than I do, no matter how much I know about it.

 

[Drifterwood]

Unluckily for us Charles is an idiot. I hope that when the time comes he will just abdicate in favour of William.

No. Arsehole.

I am sorry, but your first quote is as lame a cliche as it is jaded. I don't know the man personally, but it seems fairly clear to me that the anti-monarchist republican press saw and seized every opportunity to mock him, to make him appear a fool, again another easy cliche to throw at those who inherit a position.

It has though become clear that those issues about which they chose to deride him twenty years ago, have now become mainstream. The environment and respect for other cultures, being but two, and I have to mention organic farming and eating, and the importance of designing housing for communities.

To form your opinions based on soundbites, is beneath you from what I have read in your other posts and so is reverting to name calling.

 

[Not_Punny]

I feel sorry for Charles. He hasn't had an easy life.

Probably one of his biggest burdens is his lack of charisma -- he simply doesn't have that connect-to-people quality that stirs "love" in the heart of a nation.

But just because he isn't "loved" doesn't mean he wouldn't make a decent monarch.

And besides -- what possible harm can he do? It's not like he can push a button and launch a nuclear weapon. (Although there might be a few less corgis running around.)

 

[frizzle]

I feel sorry for Charles. He hasn't had an easy life.

Doesn't give him the right to cheat on his wife or an excuse to talk to plants.

 

[Not_Punny]

Doesn't give him the right to cheat on his wife or an excuse to talk to plants.

I talk to plants all the time!!
(Perhaps that's how I kill them...) :biggrin1:

 

[2322]

It's not like he can push a button and launch a nuclear weapon. (Although there might be a few less corgis running around.)

The monarch is the Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces. It is the ancient right of monarchs to lead their troops into battle and organize the defense of their country.

It also serves as a sort of emergency safety in case the prime minister loses his marbles and orders nuclear launches or the invasion of Monaco or a coup d'etat. The monarch is empowered to countermand the order.

Interesting point. FDR told Churchill about the atomic bomb when it was completed. At that point only three people in the UK knew about it: The American ambassador, Churchill, and King George VI.

 

[Principessa]

What Makes you British?

Are you sure it isn't your inability to tell a biscuit from a cookie? j/k :tongue: For those who don't know, in America what you call a scone we call a biscuit. Our biscuits tend to be flaky and a teensy bit sweet. IMO they are best served hot with butter and jam, even at dinner. Though many people put that heinous white sausage gravy on them for breakfast.

 

[Big en]

I disagree...If your parents are British you have a primary socialisation that is very British no matter where you live.

 

[dong20]

The number of countries you've traveled and the number of conversations you've had about how England is perceived do not have anything to do with the Encyclopedia/Dictionary definitions of the words "ethnicity," "nationality," or which heading the word "English" falls under because it isn't a debatable opinion. It's a fact.
And since this seems to be a factor that you feel makes your opinion more valid than others, I've been to my share of countries, including being a resident in and student in multiple countries. My stance on that issue is that it has no bearing on this conversation.

You have cited one defintion of ethinicity, there are many. Your choice to lend it absolute authority is your choice, go ahead but that doesn't make it so. If you read back in my earlier posts I have said I can see and appreciate the argument you're making it's just I'm not entirely convinced it's an entirely accurate or all emcompassing one, at least for all English people.

The value of people's opinion from countries other then England is germaine, including your own. Granted, the number doesn't matter in itself perhaps but that wasn't really my point which was that the issue is not so clear cut as you insist it is. I'm not saying absolutely and definitively that the idea is bonkers, merely that I don't think it's accurate to define a group of people who may not share a common ancestry, way of life or many other key social indicators as an ethnic group in the way I understand it based on looking at several definitions, personal experience and, being English.

You are of course free to disagreee, indeed it's a right you have already exercised.

I already posted the dictionary definition of the term "ethnicity." Again, it isn't up for debate, and you can't "believe" in its definition unless you're saying you don't "believe" the dictionary. I suppose that can be your stance, but it's not a very strong one.

Well, if it's in some online dictionary you googled up then it must be true. I didn't say I don't believe the dictionary merely that dictionary definitions are not necessarily rigid, complete or well thought out.

Just to illustrate my point here's a few more I also googled up at random:

"Ethnicity is a social construction that indicates identification with a particular group which is often descended from common ancestors. Members of the group share common cultural traits (such as language, religion, and dress) and are an identifiable minority within the larger nation-state. In Latin America, it often refers to Indians and Africans, although perhaps everyone has some type of ethnic identity. "

http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/resources/terms.html

"ethnicity: a basis for social categories that are rooted in socially perceived differences in national origin, language, and/or religion"

http://farahsouth.cgu.edu/dictionary/#E

"Ethnicity - a set of characteristics which result in a distinctive culture, in which a group of people share. In the United States, ethnicity is a term that is somewhat flexible in meaning, but generally refers to a subset of the national culture in which people share one of more of the following characteristics: race, nationality, religion, ancestry, or language. Ethnicity sometimes refers to the group of people, as well as the culture itself"

http://www.historycentral.com/Civics/E.html

Look, here's one that meets your interpretation:

"Ethnic Background (ethnicity): A race or a family’s national origin."

http://www.genzymegenetics.com/hcp/prenatal/resources/gene_p_hcp_pre_resources_glos.asp

I could go on but I think even you may see the point here.

Or, I assume, full English, either. But why stop there, sir? If that's your stance, then anyone of Japanese, Chinese, Indian, African, and whatever else descent would be wrong in calling him or herself that ethnicity unless he or she were born there, even though that's quite literally the definition of the word ethnicity.

Well, I always though full English was a type of breakfast, but then what do I know?

But, I digress, On the above, thanks for making my point.

Where did I say not being born in a nation denied membership of an ethnic group, please show me. That aside, consider what you just wrote; what I did say was that I believe merely being born in a nation did not automatically grant any specific ethnicity otherwise had I been born in Japan (for example) would I be ethnic Japanese - By your definition (sorry your dictionary's definition) it seems I would.Would a child born of Chinese parents in England therefore be ethnically English?

Ethnicity is comprised of many factors of which nationality (or nation of birth) is but one. Do you see the absurdity of such a narrow definition yet?

I just exemplified why it's not a matter of opinion in my last paragraph. I'm not going to bother again. I am attempting to convince you that you're at least confusing terms when you're using them here, because you're showing a clear lack of understanding what the word "ethnicity" means, and hopefully helping you so that when you do have one of your many conversations about this issue in the future, you'll be on the correct side of it.

Shame, and I was so enjoying it. Thanks for the lesson though.

Feel free not to reply. In all honesty, your argument here is with dictionaries and encyclopedias, not with me. I won't press the issue further.

Condescending smilies aren't my style. I'd prefer to keep things friendly, and I never presume to be more intelligent or knowledgeable than anyone else because chances are there's at least one thing any given person on earth will know more about than I do, no matter how much I know about it.

Modesty too. Sweet.

 

[preeman36]

Well...
-Being born and bred in London city (Best city in the world imho)
-My cockney accent
- Knowing we can beat america at one thing for sure...football (or soccer for those pf you across the pond)
-American girls are intrigued by my accent
- We have a monarch ??? (lol u know I'm having a laugh right)
- The british pound is good when converted (especially for shopping spress in the US)

Other than that, not too much really but I think its a pretty decent place to be a citizen.

 

[eddyabs]

I talk to plants all the time!!
(Perhaps that's how I kill them...) :biggrin1:

Haha, ashamed (?) to admit I do too!! They do seem to respond!!

 

[B_Swimming Lad]

It has though become clear that those issues about which they chose to deride him twenty years ago, have now become mainstream. The environment and respect for other cultures, being but two, and I have to mention organic farming and eating, and the importance of designing housing for communities.

I don't know what you think on the subject of the Queens health but to me it looks like the old birds gonna be around for a long time yet. Meaning Charles will be ancient (If not dead) when he ascends the throne. He doesn't have the Queens down to earth nature and he has all the personality of my goldfish. (Ursula!! ) lol
I'm not denying that he's contributed to all the causes you've listed above, but so has every other Royal family member.
Above all I can't forgive him for marrying a woman, he did not love at all, for his own convenience. Also he is probably the least popular member of the family.
Which is why I think it would be better for the monachy if he were to step down for William. That way the people get a popular King and the monachy gets a youthful facelift.

 

[B_Swimming Lad]

If your parents are British you have a primary socialisation that is very British no matter where you live.

So in your oppinion am I half British even though I'm a British citizen with a British passport??

 

[D_Lachtmadder Longhorne]

What makes me British is the fact that for generations as far back as anyone in my family can remember, we were all born on British soil, that accompanied with our birth certificates as documentation would make me British.

 

[135145]

I was born in britain, my family have lived here as far back as we can trace, I also even speak welsh, which is the language of wales, a nation of britain.

 

[Manbap]

How to tell someone is British?

- If he still lives in the past
- If he don't care what people think
- turns into a different person when the sun's out
- or if not bothered about a bit of dust
- who never refuses a drink
- or don't speak a foreign language
- If lost without his dog
- or finaly if he wouldn't live anywhere eles!

Does my sense of humour qualify me to get a british pasport?

 

[xemnasfury21]

Nothing makes me British, I am English. ENGLISH!!!

And yes I know my statement is uninteresting because the first reply and probably loads after have said the same lol.

I've never really thought about it really, but while I am glad I was born here, nowhere is perfect