What percent of women are pillow princesses?

Oxnard

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Zero. Exactly zero of the women I've been with are the way you describe.

Sure, there were some girlfriends that I wish were a bit more active, but not to any extent that I felt a need to say anything. I only say something if the woman is extra vigorous, and then only as a compliment. :p
 

lapdog2001

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I've been with about 35 women and I can't say I ever had one who didn't want to reciprocate, do multiple positions, etc. honestly if I had a selfish sex partner like that I'd probably leave.
Intercourse with 10 women for me, and one was a little bit timid, but the rest had no problem with multiple positions, riding on top, oral, etc. Even the most timid one was not a lay-there-with-no-reaction type of girl. She was into it, but just not wild and crazy!
 

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I've never been with one of these "Pillow Princesses" you describe. If a woman I was with didn't want to drive at some point in the festivities I would think there was something wrong. Only been with one that didn't want to suck my dick and that relationship didn't last a month. Hard to believe there are still people that won't do oral these days. It's like seeing a VCR repair shop. "How do you still exist??"
 
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supersecretlemur

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My current girlfriend never initiates (well, she has once). Never talks dirty. Never asks for position changes. Never does oral (she did it once, the first time we had sex). Never gets on top (did once, but it is very obvious she has no desire to be there and it only lasts for 30 seconds). Even when I initiate, she doesn't seem to really want to and has often turned me down (maybe > 50% of the time!?).

She does make noise though. She says she likes sex with me and says we dont have sex enough.

She is inactive enough that I'd be inclined to call her a pillow princess.

EDIT: Inversely, at the beginning I used to eat her out every time (I haven't in a while because well, quite honestly, I feel like she won't do it for me, so why do it for her). I gave her her first orally-induced orgasm. I gave her her first vaginally induced orgasm. I make sure that she orgasms before me.
 

Oxnard

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My current girlfriend never initiates (well, she has once). Never talks dirty. Never asks for position changes. Never does oral (she did it once, the first time we had sex). Never gets on top (did once, but it is very obvious she has no desire to be there and it only lasts for 30 seconds). Even when I initiate, she doesn't seem to really want to and has often turned me down (maybe > 50% of the time!?).

She does make noise though. She says she likes sex with me and says we dont have sex enough.

She is inactive enough that I'd be inclined to call her a pillow princess.

EDIT: Inversely, at the beginning I used to eat her out every time (I haven't in a while because well, quite honestly, I feel like she won't do it for me, so why do it for her). I gave her her first orally-induced orgasm. I gave her her first vaginally induced orgasm. I make sure that she orgasms before me.

Is she affected by cultural taboos, slut-shaming, etc.?
 

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Is she affected by cultural taboos, slut-shaming, etc.?
Not sure, but I'd guess no? I've never heard her say anything related to slut-shaming. I've told her some of my wild stories (even my experimentation) and she didn't run away.

What are your thoughts if so?
 

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Not sure, but I'd guess no? I've never heard her say anything related to slut-shaming. I've told her some of my wild stories (even my experimentation) and she didn't run away.

What are your thoughts if so?
Culture involves a lot of assumptions that are generally not discussed openly, and Christian-majority or Muslim-majority cultures often include the assumption that any woman who likes anything about sex is a bad and shameful person. If she admits to you that she likes or wants something, she is a bad person. If she admits to herself that she likes or wants something, she is a bad person. If she actively does or asks for something, she is a bad person. This is what I mean by slut-shaming.

I do not know your girlfriend or her specific situation, but could it hurt to ask her if any of these ideas affect her decisions in the bedroom? I'm sure her thoughts on the matter would be the most illuminating. If she is harboring any such attitudes, then the solution might be as simple as encouraging her to ask for things (or generally being more proactive) and acting more turned on when she asks for things (or takes action on her own).
 
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Oxnard

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If nothing else, let her know that asking for things or occasionally taking what she wants from you through actions would make you feel more wanted and desirable.
 
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supersecretlemur

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I have discussed my desire for her to be more active and she has said a few things that don't make sense to me - at least not collectively. She has said she used to like giving oral. She said she used to be more willing to get on top. When I said I'd like her to be more proactive/initiate, she said that she wants me to be the man and do that (despite me saying that it'd mean a lot to me). She also is concerned with running staying in shape, etc despite me saying that stuff doesn't really matter (always welcome to know she cares though). Also has commented about how she can't understand how girls her age (early 30s) are already wearing unsexy granny panties.

She even came over today in hopes of waking me up for sex (I work night shift so I sleep during the day). Not sure if she was going to initiate or that is her way of initiating or if she would have just came over and hoped I initiated. In either case I was woken up and totally out of it so nothing happened.

I guess the only thing I can figure is that shes' been hurt or felt used in the past so she just avoids it now. Basically if you don't ever put yourself out there and initiate or put yourself out there by getting on top and trying to ride... then you can never fail. It is up to the other person to fail?
 

Oxnard

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I have discussed my desire for her to be more active and she has said a few things that don't make sense to me - at least not collectively. She has said she used to like giving oral. She said she used to be more willing to get on top. When I said I'd like her to be more proactive/initiate, she said that she wants me to be the man and do that (despite me saying that it'd mean a lot to me). She also is concerned with running staying in shape, etc despite me saying that stuff doesn't really matter (always welcome to know she cares though). Also has commented about how she can't understand how girls her age (early 30s) are already wearing unsexy granny panties.

She even came over today in hopes of waking me up for sex (I work night shift so I sleep during the day). Not sure if she was going to initiate or that is her way of initiating or if she would have just came over and hoped I initiated. In either case I was woken up and totally out of it so nothing happened.

I guess the only thing I can figure is that shes' been hurt or felt used in the past so she just avoids it now. Basically if you don't ever put yourself out there and initiate or put yourself out there by getting on top and trying to ride... then you can never fail. It is up to the other person to fail?
This does sound like a cultural thing. It sounds like she feels that this is related to gender roles. You're supposed to be the one doing stuff because you are a man, and by extension, she's not supposed to do anything because she is a woman.

This gets back to the sexual objectification aspect of sexist culture. In this case, I'm talking about objective nouns versus subjective nouns rather than the "sex object" thing (I prefer the term sexualization for that). In sexist culture, women are objective nouns not subjective nouns. They don't do things, they have things done to them. Think about how in older stories like King Arthur: any woman who takes action is presented as a villain, while the "good girls" are just trophies the men fight over.

So perhaps she thinks she is not supposed to do anything, but just sit there and wait for things to be done to her, and if she does anything, she's stepping outside her prescribed gender role? Dunno, just throwing ideas at the wall here.
 

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Too bad we can't edit posts to fix typos. Sorry for the extraneous colon in the post above.
 

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This does sound like a cultural thing. It sounds like she feels that this is related to gender roles. You're supposed to be the one doing stuff because you are a man, and by extension, she's not supposed to do anything because she is a woman.

This gets back to the sexual objectification aspect of sexist culture. In this case, I'm talking about objective nouns versus subjective nouns rather than the "sex object" thing (I prefer the term sexualization for that). In sexist culture, women are objective nouns not subjective nouns. They don't do things, they have things done to them. Think about how in older stories like King Arthur: any woman who takes action is presented as a villain, while the "good girls" are just trophies the men fight over.

So perhaps she thinks she is not supposed to do anything, but just sit there and wait for things to be done to her, and if she does anything, she's stepping outside her prescribed gender role? Dunno, just throwing ideas at the wall here.
Quite possible. I find talking about such subjects with girls to be dreadful. How can you have a conversation with someone that is trying to adhere to a traditionalist gender/sex role without sounding like a needy, sexist barbarian? LOL.

Too bad we can't edit posts to fix typos. Sorry for the extraneous colon in the post above.
I thought you could edit... but only for X minutes after posting?

EDIT: You can, but there is some sort of timer...
 

supersecretlemur

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All of this still leaves my question unanswered. Since most girls seem to act the same in regards to sex... am I just finding selfish/timid girls or do I have my blinders on and something else is at play. As they say... I am the common denominator here.
 

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Quite possible. I find talking about such subjects with girls to be dreadful. How can you have a conversation with someone that is trying to adhere to a traditionalist gender/sex role without sounding like a needy, sexist barbarian? LOL.


I thought you could edit... but only for X minutes after posting?

EDIT: You can, but there is some sort of timer...

I won't lie. I find it difficult to discuss social gender issues and culturally-mandated gender roles with girlfriends, because I myself have a number of neuroses based on worry about what society is doing to the self-image of my special someone. I find it much more easy to talk about those things with platonic female friends than with girlfriends. So I have no problem talking about this stuff with women... as long as I'm not in a relationship with them. >.<

It just seems too easy to accidentally say something that comes across as a criticism when that's not what I intend at all. I'm terrified of stepping on an emotional land mine.

So, uh, I don't really have good advice on how to broach this issue delicately, but if you have a platonic female friend or a sister or something, she might be able to offer more useful advice in that area. Usually if I have a problem with things like this, I run straight to my platonic friends for advice (I don't have any sisters, so my platonic friends are emotional sister-substitutes).
 

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All of this still leaves my question unanswered. Since most girls seem to act the same in regards to sex... am I just finding selfish/timid girls or do I have my blinders on and something else is at play. As they say... I am the common denominator here.

I've run into much milder cases of women being less proactive in bed, but nothing as extreme as you describe. I really think that culture and society and attitudes about gender have a lot to do with this, but then I am neither a sociologist nor a sex researcher, so my opinion doesn't really matter much.

Personally, I think sex should be as interactive as possible Everything about it should be interactive. Every time I react to something she does or she reacts to something I do, it is a reminder that there is another person in bed with me and that we are sharing an experience together. When a woman is less active/proactive in bed, it feels more like masturbating and less like sex. :(
 
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Nope. I'll straight up walk out if I do encounter one. If she's not reciprocating I can't possibly see me escalating it to the bedroom. It'd feel like she's either not interested or playing hard to get. The 2nd just pisses me off because I don't enjoy games like that. If she wants to play hard to get, that's fine with me she just won't get any *shrugs*
If she isn't interested then it'll feel awkward, if I were to continue I'd feel creepy and wrong. So chances of me running into a girl like this seems low, chances of me staying is 0.
 

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Nope. I'll straight up walk out if I do encounter one. If she's not reciprocating I can't possibly see me escalating it to the bedroom. It'd feel like she's either not interested or playing hard to get. The 2nd just pisses me off because I don't enjoy games like that. If she wants to play hard to get, that's fine with me she just won't get any *shrugs*
If she isn't interested then it'll feel awkward, if I were to continue I'd feel creepy and wrong. So chances of me running into a girl like this seems low, chances of me staying is 0.

Society does a lot to mess with women's heads. Don't you think it would be better to ask what's going on before deciding to move on?
 

Doranq

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Society does a lot to mess with women's heads. Don't you think it would be better to ask what's going on before deciding to move on?
No.

Some of us require certain things from our partners that another may or may not. I however require reciprocation from a romantic partner.

For example. She can be a virgin or experienced. It doesn't matter. Hell she could of done porn it doesn't matter. . etc etc.
Her experience. Her skills. Her knowledge. Doesn't matter. Now I do appreciate them, don't get me wrong. If she's really good at what she does, I'll definitely enjoy it. That said, it doesn't matter.

Things that matters
Does she likes sex?
How high is her sex drive?
Does she initiate?
Is she enthusiastic?
Is she giving?
Is she willing to learn?


It's things like that, that matter. If you answered no to any of those. Then there is a problem. This problem very well may be a tell to other problems. It might not, either way there is a problem.

Now keep in mind two very important things.

1. She is not the only girl out there. In fact there are millions of women who are excellent matches for me physically, emotionally, mentally, and sexually.

2. I have only 1 life. It's like a coin. I can spend it any way I like but I can only spend it once.


So with that in mind why should I invest into her? If it was something that could be resolved in a week, perhaps I'd stay. That said, things like these do not typically just change so quickly. Sometimes it takes a LONG time. Sometimes never. So why should I gamble my time on a person who I at one point didn't know of their existence. Whom I myself was living quite well without having any knowledge of their existence at some point in time. Meaning in a sense she is expendable. She doesn't fulfill my needs. Needs that I believe aren't crazy. Pretty attainable things, in my opinion. Perhaps I'm wrong *shrugs* Needs that numerous women can satisfy.

Bare in mind that there are also women out there that are better matches for me in any given area if not multiple areas. So really, what do I have to gain by staying? What do I have to gain by getting attached to someone who may or may not change for the better? What do I have to gain by not pursuing someone who doesn't have a problem in what I consider a problem in the foundation of good sex. Good sex being what I believe to be a key component in a romantic relationship? My answer: most likely nothing but a lot of headache, heartache, and obviously bad sex if any sex at all.
I'm a very understanding person. I'm very giving. There are many things I'm very happy to help someone with. That said there are some things that I don't want to deal with. Not because it is too hard, not because I think I am better, and not because I think it's somehow beneath me. It's simply something that I find unattractive and really would prefer not to introduce into my life. I also never hold my partners to standards that I myself do not already meet if not exceed. I would like to spend my time with those who pair well with me. I'm sure my partner thinks the same.


Me, I have 1 life and I'd prefer to spend it on something I enjoy rather than something I don't.. in this case someone.
Hopefully that should be a sufficient answer as to why I say NO. If you disagree, that's cool. Just means you are different. *shrugs*
 

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Look, I can sympathize with one thing. I honestly don't know how I would deal with a partner like that. Sex and relationships are inherently a participatory activity, are they not? I agree that this kind of behavior from a sexual partner is really not appropriate, or at least not anything I want to be part of.

I'm pretty sure I would have an extremely difficult time dealing with a partner like that. I can't lie about that. However, our society and our culture does some rather strange things to women, particularly when it comes to gender issues, gender roles, etc., etc., and I should hope that I would be mature enough to at least try to work things out with a partner before giving up and moving on.