What percent of women are pillow princesses?

supersecretlemur

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No.

Some of us require certain things from our partners that another may or may not. I however require reciprocation from a romantic partner.

For example. She can be a virgin or experienced. It doesn't matter. Hell she could of done porn it doesn't matter. . etc etc.
Her experience. Her skills. Her knowledge. Doesn't matter. Now I do appreciate them, don't get me wrong. If she's really good at what she does, I'll definitely enjoy it. That said, it doesn't matter.

Things that matters
Does she likes sex?
How high is her sex drive?
Does she initiate?
Is she enthusiastic?
Is she giving?
Is she willing to learn?


It's things like that, that matter. If you answered no to any of those. Then there is a problem. This problem very well may be a tell to other problems. It might not, either way there is a problem.

Now keep in mind two very important things.

1. She is not the only girl out there. In fact there are millions of women who are excellent matches for me physically, emotionally, mentally, and sexually.

2. I have only 1 life. It's like a coin. I can spend it any way I like but I can only spend it once.


So with that in mind why should I invest into her? If it was something that could be resolved in a week, perhaps I'd stay. That said, things like these do not typically just change so quickly. Sometimes it takes a LONG time. Sometimes never. So why should I gamble my time on a person who I at one point didn't know of their existence. Whom I myself was living quite well without having any knowledge of their existence at some point in time. Meaning in a sense she is expendable. She doesn't fulfill my needs. Needs that I believe aren't crazy. Pretty attainable things, in my opinion. Perhaps I'm wrong *shrugs* Needs that numerous women can satisfy.

Bare in mind that there are also women out there that are better matches for me in any given area if not multiple areas. So really, what do I have to gain by staying? What do I have to gain by getting attached to someone who may or may not change for the better? What do I have to gain by not pursuing someone who doesn't have a problem in what I consider a problem in the foundation of good sex. Good sex being what I believe to be a key component in a romantic relationship? My answer: most likely nothing but a lot of headache, heartache, and obviously bad sex if any sex at all.
I'm a very understanding person. I'm very giving. There are many things I'm very happy to help someone with. That said there are some things that I don't want to deal with. Not because it is too hard, not because I think I am better, and not because I think it's somehow beneath me. It's simply something that I find unattractive and really would prefer not to introduce into my life. I also never hold my partners to standards that I myself do not already meet if not exceed. I would like to spend my time with those who pair well with me. I'm sure my partner thinks the same.


Me, I have 1 life and I'd prefer to spend it on something I enjoy rather than something I don't.. in this case someone.
Hopefully that should be a sufficient answer as to why I say NO. If you disagree, that's cool. Just means you are different. *shrugs*

Nope. I'll straight up walk out if I do encounter one. If she's not reciprocating I can't possibly see me escalating it to the bedroom. It'd feel like she's either not interested or playing hard to get. The 2nd just pisses me off because I don't enjoy games like that. If she wants to play hard to get, that's fine with me she just won't get any *shrugs*
If she isn't interested then it'll feel awkward, if I were to continue I'd feel creepy and wrong. So chances of me running into a girl like this seems low, chances of me staying is 0.
I agree that everyone should know what they want and go after it. However, I can't help but feel like you've reduced all of humanity to black-or-white that is unable to change/learn. This is no more true than sex which has cultural barriers, taboo barriers, self-esteem barriers, sometimes gender-role barriers, religious barriers, societal barriers, etc.

I happen to think that just because someone doesn't answer an astounding YES to all your questions doesn't mean they can't be your dream come true. But you'd give them a week to change, quite possibly, the exact person they've been for 20-30-40 years (religion, cultural beliefs, gender-role beliefs)?

Damn, you're a tough prospect.

Again, I applaud you on saying "I want this, and if you aren't this then goodbye" but I find that a bit... unrealistic... given that humans are so incredibly complex and also ever-changing. I almost feel like you'd have to have a resume and a legit screening process to make sure that she fits your bill to a T.
 
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supersecretlemur

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I've run into much milder cases of women being less proactive in bed, but nothing as extreme as you describe. I really think that culture and society and attitudes about gender have a lot to do with this, but then I am neither a sociologist nor a sex researcher, so my opinion doesn't really matter much.

Personally, I think sex should be as interactive as possible Everything about it should be interactive. Every time I react to something she does or she reacts to something I do, it is a reminder that there is another person in bed with me and that we are sharing an experience together. When a woman is less active/proactive in bed, it feels more like masturbating and less like sex. :(
I've thought this a few times... if you aren't active... then why am I not just masturbating instead? LOL.

Far less work, I know what I like, and I don't have to worry about trying to please someone else.
 
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I agree that everyone should know what they want and go after it. However, I can't help but feel like you've reduced all of humanity to black-or-white that is unable to change/learn. This is no more true than sex which has cultural barriers, taboo barriers, self-esteem barriers, sometimes gender-role barriers, religious barriers, societal barriers, etc.

I happen to think that just because someone doesn't answer an astounding YES to all your questions doesn't mean they can't be your dream come true. But you'd give them a week to change, quite possibly, the exact person they've been for 20-30-40 years (religion, cultural beliefs, gender-role beliefs)?

Damn, you're a tough prospect.

Again, I applaud you on saying "I want this, and if you aren't this then goodbye" but I find that a bit... unrealistic... given that humans are so incredibly complex and also ever-changing. I almost feel like you'd have to have a resume and a legit screening process to make sure that she fits your bill to a T.
Very well said.
 
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I agree that everyone should know what they want and go after it. However, I can't help but feel like you've reduced all of humanity to black-or-white that is unable to change/learn. This is no more true than sex which has cultural barriers, taboo barriers, self-esteem barriers, sometimes gender-role barriers, religious barriers, societal barriers, etc.

I happen to think that just because someone doesn't answer an astounding YES to all your questions doesn't mean they can't be your dream come true. But you'd give them a week to change, quite possibly, the exact person they've been for 20-30-40 years (religion, cultural beliefs, gender-role beliefs)?

Damn, you're a tough prospect.

Again, I applaud you on saying "I want this, and if you aren't this then goodbye" but I find that a bit... unrealistic... given that humans are so incredibly complex and also ever-changing. I almost feel like you'd have to have a resume and a legit screening process to make sure that she fits your bill to a T.

It's not a very hard bill to fit.
This is what I look for.
Don't cheat, don't be abusive, be open minded, have a sense of humor, don't be manipulative, enjoy sex, have a healthy attitude in regards to sex, communicate rather than keep it all in/ passive aggressive. No drugs. Share at least 1 or 2 common interests. Oh and if you have a religion/political stance that's cool but don't try to shove it down my throat.. respect my beliefs and i'll respect yours. Don't steal. most importantly likes/loves me (depending on how far along the relationship has progressed) ,No crime.. if you did do crime than you done with it. Then you have been done with it for a long time and won't do it again. Super basic finance skills... if you don't have the money... don't spend it... you pay bills first and what is left over is for you to spend how you choose... not the other way around, super basic.Lastly if this is a long term thing.. doesn't want kids otherwise one of us is gonna be pretty unhappy in the end whether or not we did or didn't have kids.

Those are my expectations. The bar is set rather low. I don't require any sort of social status, no financial statuses, no skills other than some ultra basic financial skill and the ability to talk about what they want/problems/how they feel/etc. I don't require any race, religion (so long as they aren't killing people or animals) political views, place of origin. I don't require any specific body types. Standards for looks is if you have a cute face.. which could be bypassed by ones personality. So my screening process on looks is terribly rigorous on looks.

I don't care about her sexual past. Is she a virgin? cool. Has she slept with 200 men? cool. Was she in porn? Cool? Did she cam? cool. As long as she doesn't have an STD, isn't doing the last 2 with out my knowledge in a commited relationship. Then there is no problem.


But you'd give them a week to change, quite possibly, the exact person they've been for 20-30-40 years (religion, cultural beliefs, gender-role beliefs)?
Like I said, if that. I even acknowledged it could be a long time and even the fact it may not happen. So in short I don't like the person who they are/became. I don't date people with the intentions of fixing them. I date people who meet my standards. Standards I might add that aren't hard to meet. Standards that I myself meet. This one statement also shows your inability to process what I have said concerning time. Something you acknowledged but then seemed not to be able to apply.


So this leads me to believe one of few things.
You either have much lower standards than I do, which is perfectly fine.
Your standards are very different than mine, again perfectly fine

I do believe that you you made a huge assumption and came to a very wrong conclusion.. :\ tsk tsk.. you gotta put more thought into what I was saying. You instead grasped at the number of things I said and the format in which they were presented rather than what I was actually saying and how attainable said things they are. Also you failed to weigh the the importance of what I asked and how one would perceive it that way. Meaning you lack some experience when it comes to understanding that others might require something different/more. Something I touched upon early in this post

I choose to date the people who I like, I don't choose to date people in order to mold them into the person I like.






My current girlfriend never initiates (well, she has once). Never talks dirty. Never asks for position changes. Never does oral (she did it once, the first time we had sex). Never gets on top (did once, but it is very obvious she has no desire to be there and it only lasts for 30 seconds). Even when I initiate, she doesn't seem to really want to and has often turned me down (maybe > 50% of the time!?).

She does make noise though. She says she likes sex with me and says we dont have sex enough.

She is inactive enough that I'd be inclined to call her a pillow princess.

EDIT: Inversely, at the beginning I used to eat her out every time (I haven't in a while because well, quite honestly, I feel like she won't do it for me, so why do it for her). I gave her her first orally-induced orgasm. I gave her her first vaginally induced orgasm. I make sure that she orgasms before me.
Reading this post has to make me ask the question. Why would I want to take advice from someone who is in a relationship that they are obviously not entirely happy in, continues to stay in said relationship(s)? Is not even sure whether or not most women are like this, continues to encounter the same problem over and over again. You appear to have the inability to screen for partners who don't have this issue. On top of it all. Someone who is unhappy with the situation actually has the audacity to criticize another for not wanting anything to do with said situation, The person who is criticizing is the same person who is unhappy about their partners not initiating, being enthusiastic, being engaging in sex... the very same exact situation person b doesn't want anything to do with but causes OP grief might I emphasize. So why would I want to adopt the thought process of someone who seems to be failing rather than succeeding? Me whose methods work for yours who apparently doesn't. Why?

So it's easy to deduce that OP has not figured it out. In all of the people that responded to OP.. NONE, 0, nada, cero, zilche share a similar experience.. In fact it's the opposite experience for all - They encountered little to no people with said problem.

So that is what I have taken away. I don't see the leg you stand upon when you say I am a "tough prospect." As someone who has never encountered this problem.. I might have to say your line of thought is naive as nothing you have posted has shown me otherwise. The problem persists and with in the first post I quoted lies the answer. You expect someone to change after 20,30,40 years of reinforcement? You are making a shitty bet.. one that seems you have never had the payout. So if I had to say you'd be a bad prospect. :\

Then again what do I know. My standards are astronomically high and I've never had to deal with this problem because I filter them out ┐(‘~` )┌


Good luck to you OP. Maybe you'll do some self reflecting and find the answer. Maybe you won't. Either way it's your problem to deal with, not mine.


Very well said.
Poorly thought out and a lot of it is a sweeping assumption. It's very naive and buys into unrealistic expectations. As indicated by OP throughout this thread. What he proposes has not and does not work for him. So it's advice that lays on shaky ground. So perhaps what he said may have been said well but the contents of what he said was no good.
 

supersecretlemur

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It's not a very hard bill to fit.
This is what I look for.
Don't cheat, don't be abusive, be open minded, have a sense of humor, don't be manipulative, enjoy sex, have a healthy attitude in regards to sex, communicate rather than keep it all in/ passive aggressive. No drugs. Share at least 1 or 2 common interests. Oh and if you have a religion/political stance that's cool but don't try to shove it down my throat.. respect my beliefs and i'll respect yours. Don't steal. most importantly likes/loves me (depending on how far along the relationship has progressed) ,No crime.. if you did do crime than you done with it. Then you have been done with it for a long time and won't do it again. Super basic finance skills... if you don't have the money... don't spend it... you pay bills first and what is left over is for you to spend how you choose... not the other way around, super basic.Lastly if this is a long term thing.. doesn't want kids otherwise one of us is gonna be pretty unhappy in the end whether or not we did or didn't have kids.

Those are my expectations. The bar is set rather low. I don't require any sort of social status, no financial statuses, no skills other than some ultra basic financial skill and the ability to talk about what they want/problems/how they feel/etc. I don't require any race, religion (so long as they aren't killing people or animals) political views, place of origin. I don't require any specific body types. Standards for looks is if you have a cute face.. which could be bypassed by ones personality. So my screening process on looks is terribly rigorous on looks.

I don't care about her sexual past. Is she a virgin? cool. Has she slept with 200 men? cool. Was she in porn? Cool? Did she cam? cool. As long as she doesn't have an STD, isn't doing the last 2 with out my knowledge in a commited relationship. Then there is no problem.



Like I said, if that. I even acknowledged it could be a long time and even the fact it may not happen. So in short I don't like the person who they are/became. I don't date people with the intentions of fixing them. I date people who meet my standards. Standards I might add that aren't hard to meet. Standards that I myself meet. This one statement also shows your inability to process what I have said concerning time. Something you acknowledged but then seemed not to be able to apply.


So this leads me to believe one of few things.
You either have much lower standards than I do, which is perfectly fine.
Your standards are very different than mine, again perfectly fine

I do believe that you you made a huge assumption and came to a very wrong conclusion.. :\ tsk tsk.. you gotta put more thought into what I was saying. You instead grasped at the number of things I said and the format in which they were presented rather than what I was actually saying and how attainable said things they are. Also you failed to weigh the the importance of what I asked and how one would perceive it that way.
TLDR. I stopped reading when you started berating me and acting like I can't comprehend you.

Your post still shows basic flaws in logic in my opinion. Your standards are simple and attainable? I disagree, again, on the basis that humanity is infinitely complex and ever-changing.

Half, if not most things on your list are not things that people are going to just come out and say/admit. And the rest of your requirement list are things that can, and very well may change over time (my primary point here). I feel like you're the guy on the assembly line that their job is to look at all the produce coming down the line and judge in an instant if the produce is worthy of the shelf or the trash (you judge a book by it's cover). There are so many things that are just too hard to figure out about people to "just give it a week, if that." There is a whole list of things that people don't just spill on the first date. That is why I was wondering if you have a legit resume or screening process.

Maybe she did cheat - does that mean that she is a bad person or maybe a good person that did a bad thing in a bad situation? What is being manipulative? What is being abusive? What is cheating (yes, there is a wide variance in that definition too!)? What is good communication? What is "enjoying sex"? What is being fiscally sound - would someone spending their life savings and taking out a loan to open up a business fiscally frugal enough or do you desire them to store every penny in the bank for a rainy day (just showing the variance here, not asking for an answer). The only thing I see on your list that is a black or white issue is - you don't want kids.

Again, I'm not arguing your life decisions or methods. I'm simply confused at how you can be so black and white when you're judging humans who change, lie, cheat, break-the-law, love/hate, and view life differently on so many different points on the spectrum. I'd go so far as to say if you find someone that doesn't lie, break-the-law, love/hate passionately, have black marks on their life-history, have no skeletons in the closet, and don't change their beliefs over time then you have a Stepford Wife.
 

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TLDR. I stopped reading when you started berating me and acting like I can't comprehend you.

Your post still shows basic flaws in logic in my opinion. Your standards are simple and attainable? I disagree, again, on the basis that humanity is infinitely complex and ever-changing.

Half, if not most things on your list are not things that people are going to just come out and say/admit. And the rest of your requirement list are things that can, and very well may change over time (my primary point here). I feel like you're the guy on the assembly line that their job is to look at all the produce coming down the line and judge in an instant if the produce is worthy of the shelf or the trash (you judge a book by it's cover). There are so many things that are just too hard to figure out about people to "just give it a week, if that." There is a whole list of things that people don't just spill on the first date. That is why I was wondering if you have a legit resume or screening process.

Maybe she did cheat - does that mean that she is a bad person or maybe a good person that did a bad thing in a bad situation? What is being manipulative? What is being abusive? What is cheating (yes, there is a wide variance in that definition too!)? What is good communication? What is "enjoying sex"? What is being fiscally sound - would someone spending their life savings and taking out a loan to open up a business fiscally frugal enough or do you desire them to store every penny in the bank for a rainy day (just showing the variance here, not asking for an answer). The only thing I see on your list that is a black or white issue is - you don't want kids.

Again, I'm not arguing your life decisions or methods. I'm simply confused at how you can be so black and white when you're judging humans who change, lie, cheat, break-the-law, love/hate, and view life differently on so many different points on the spectrum. I'd go so far as to say if you find someone that doesn't lie, break-the-law, love/hate passionately, have black marks on their life-history, have no skeletons in the closet, and don't change their beliefs over time then you have a Stepford Wife.

I guess I will respond with that your problem you seem to be displaying to me is - You quickly arrive to a conclusion with little to no thought about it and the said conclusion acts as a lens you peer through which distorts all information received. All information is then processed in a way that makes everything comply with in the confines of your preconceived idea. It is extremely evident that you didn't process even half of what was said to you. Had you done so, your response would have reflected it. That's not to say had you of done so, you would of magically agreed with me. No, no it's quite possible you would have still disagreed with me. It's just that your post would been somewhat coherent to what I have written despite you disagreeing That's all that needs to really be said. By the way things look continuing this conversation is asinine on my part.

I will leave off with just this. It's evident that whatever you are doing/not doing is obviously not working as you repeatedly find yourself in undesirable situations that are similar to one another. Anecdotal evidence being that no one in this thread really relates to you experience, indicating at some point the fault lies with your decisions.

Do with it what you will. It isn't of any concern of mine at this point ._.
 

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I guess I will respond with that your problem you seem to be displaying to me is - You quickly arrive to a conclusion with little to no thought about it and the said conclusion acts as a lens you peer through which distorts all information received. All information is then processed in a way that makes everything comply with in the confines of your preconceived idea. It is extremely evident that you didn't process even half of what was said to you. Had you done so, your response would have reflected it. That's not to say had you of done so, you would of magically agreed with me. No, no it's quite possible you would have still disagreed with me. It's just that your post would been somewhat coherent to what I have written despite you disagreeing That's all that needs to really be said. By the way things look continuing this conversation is asinine on my part.

I will leave off with just this. It's evident that whatever you are doing/not doing is obviously not working as you repeatedly find yourself in undesirable situations that are similar to one another. Anecdotal evidence being that no one in this thread really relates to you experience, indicating at some point the fault lies with your decisions.

Do with it what you will. It isn't of any concern of mine at this point ._.
I've already said that I'm the common denominator in the post below.
All of this still leaves my question unanswered. Since most girls seem to act the same in regards to sex... am I just finding selfish/timid girls or do I have my blinders on and something else is at play. As they say... I am the common denominator here.
 

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[...]

Your post still shows basic flaws in logic in my opinion.

[...]
Sorry to get pedantic on you, but logic does not apply to opinions, it applies to truth claims (or rather the arguments that support or fail to support a truth claim). We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate...
 

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Sorry to get pedantic on you, but logic does not apply to opinions, it applies to truth claims (or rather the arguments that support or fail to support a truth claim). We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate...
Isn't each party claiming truth? My position is that psychology says that people change a lot over time and are almost never the same as the day before. We evolve in that regard. His position is that he has set standards that one must abide by to be with him, which I find logical fault in due to the science at hand. How is this not debating basis of truth of the human condition?
 

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Isn't each party claiming truth? My position is that psychology says that people change a lot over time and are almost never the same as the day before. We evolve in that regard. His position is that he has set standards that one must abide by to be with him, which I find logical fault in due to the science at hand. How is this not debating basis of truth of the human condition?
I was merely correcting you for using the word opinion in conjunction with logic. If someone acknowledges that something is an opinion, they're admitting that it is not necessarily true.
 

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I was merely correcting you for using the word opinion in conjunction with logic. If someone acknowledges that something is an opinion, they're admitting that it is not necessarily true.
I guess I always take the approach that nothing is absolute, not even truth or laws. Therefore, anything is up for debate and can be overturned. This also follows the thought-process with the subject at hand - people are not absolutes.
 

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"Pillow Princess" look good
In French its called "etoile de mer = starfish", because basically they just lay on their back, spread the legs and wait :D
 
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I guess I always take the approach that nothing is absolute, not even truth or laws. Therefore, anything is up for debate and can be overturned. This also follows the thought-process with the subject at hand - people are not absolutes.
Agreed. The whole notion of "absolute truth" is pretty incoherent. In order to rationalize the existence of absolutes, even the great Plato had to concoct a ridiculous idea called Platonism, which involves believing in ideas existing separately from sentient minds, which is arguably one of the dumbest ideas ever to come from a brilliant mind.

Still, I think truth claims are different from opinions. We can't prove any scientific claim in the absolute sense, but scientific claims are still fundamentally different from opinions.
 

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"Pillow Princess" look good
In French its called "etoile de mer = starfish", because basically they just lay on their back, spread the legs and wait :D
The different sexual metaphors in different languages and cultures fascinates me. :D
 
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I enjoy reading Japanese porn comics (no, not the tentacle schoolgirl ick), and for instance a pussy is a "lower mouth" and semen is "dick milk." Very different from American metaphors.
 

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"Pillow Princess" look good
In French its called "etoile de mer = starfish", because basically they just lay on their back, spread the legs and wait :D

In Britain they used to have a saying to women, for just allowing their husbands to have their way with them - "lie back and think of England"
 

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3 out of 5.

One was that way from the beginning. She was relatively young and inexperienced. The sex wasn't bad, but she fits your description.

Two started off being significantly more involved, and over time became extremely passive about it.
* One of those two the sex was (is) still fine. Not as good as it was when she was more driven, but still good.
* The other sucked ass. Putting her in the mood for sex was an effort, and once we started she generally came in less than a minute. The fastest was maybe 5-10 seconds of clit play and she was cumming. Once she came, she was completely out of the mood and although she was willing to still have sex, it felt like date raping someone from her lack of enthusiasm.
 

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Feb 14, 2016
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100% Straight, 0% Gay
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Male
Hearing all of these stories makes me appreciate my ex-girlfriends more. Apparently I have been damn lucky in this regard.
 
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