What REALLY makes a man "a man" ?

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H8Monga: It would help if people's preferences were, "I just don't give a **** as long as it's a penis!" and stopped rejecting, prejudging... or being greedy...

Sure there is more to a man than his whatever-thingy but no one seems to really like personality, responsibility, and other traits until they are really, really old... and even then some people never change.


Mar. 19... happy belated to myself.

 

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wvalady1968: [quote author=Hapi Papi link=board=meetgreet;num=1080624653;start=20#20 date=03/31/04 at 06:02:13]Mar. 19... happy belated to myself.[/quote]
Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday, dear Cameron
Happy Birthday to you
:-*

 

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H8Monga: Wow thanks Wvalady (please tell me it's Allie  :-[) although I was thinking of my anniversary here. However, my birthday was on the 3rd so thanks twice!

 

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Javierdude22: Hapi, you're back man,

welcome back!

 

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Tender: hapi, 'HI' :-*

i think what makes a man a man is that he is a man.

the individual characteristics that are thought of when you think a 'man' --

depends on what each person sees as masculine or as a turn on....

for instance some women prefer shorter stocky men,
some prefer the tall thin man,
some prefer men that cook, and like kids...
some prefer blondes,
some dark...
ect.

ask most women what they think about the beefy muscular 'hunks' on the magazine covers,,, and they will go 'eww'. bigger muscles are not always better, there comes a time to stop pumping ya know...

so i guess i am saying that what makes a man a man varries according to the obsservers interpretation....

it seems most every woman or man for that matter, has a personal taste of what they like...
suppose a man where short, thin, had a soft voice and loved to sew.
doubtful he would have women flocking to his side.
suppose he was tall, built, had a deep voice and sure of himself.....
he will be more likely to land a lady... especially if you cover him in sweat or grease, throw on a uniform, or give him the firetruck keys....................

so does that mean men who dont fit that description arent 'men'...? :-/

i suppose we could reverse the question.
what makes a woman a woman?
is it long hair, softness, and the barbie figure?

so if i cover the 250 pound woman with grease and a uniform, and cut her hair above her ears....
lets just say its doubtfull she would sale as a poster girl.... guys wouldnt be interested.

so it boils down then to men who are masculine, and women who are feminine are more succesful at the whole game...

anyone who doesnt meet these standards placed by society tends to have a hard time finding their way, and being content with themselves. so the question really is, yes men are men, but if he doesnt fit into the 'standard'---how does he cope?


Tender

oh, a small PS... notice how MY description of masculine DOESNT include 10 inches
BillyZane--- i got no idea of his endowment, but i think he is SO hot...............(drool.....!)
he may even beat spiderman

 

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rangersean: I'm 6'4" tall, gay and single.

I have a good male friend who is 4'11" tall, married and with two children.

Am I more of a man than he is because I'm taller?
Is he more of a man than I am because he's straight?
Some would say yes to either, possibly both of those questions.

Personally, I think a yes answer to either is silly.

Each of us is different, and I'd frankly rather worry about what makes me a good human being (or IF I'm a good human being).



Tender - I used to be with you on Billy Zane, but Tobey's much hotter.

 

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ORCABOMBER: Damn! There are so many people I want to comment with!

View From Below, yeah, it's hard to describe the way that "manliness" is described, it seems to mean different things to different people. Taking basic sterotypes, I'm not muscular, but I'll be a "rock" for someone who needs me. Does that make me more or less "manly" than the "Buff Bagwell" who's extremely extroverted?

Maybe it's more along the lines of whether he's a good person or not, if I was to bitch someone who needed my help, then I know I'm less of a person because of that, at least. Physical attributes are 'all that', but at the end of the day, Bin Laden could have a 15 incher and still be a bastard.

As far as the "feminine male" goes, heck, there's acting "queer" and there's being a man about there sexuality, heck, I'm sure the gays on the board would agree, unless you really do like men who make the Joker look like Boy George.

-----
Happi,

Sure there is more to a man than his whatever-thingy but no one seems to really like personality, responsibility, and other traits until they are really, really old... and even then some people never change.

Help! You're turning as cynical as I am! In times like this, I look at myself nude in the mirror and think "Their loss!"

----
Tender, I just had to reply to

i suppose we could reverse the question.
what makes a woman a woman?
is it long hair, softness, and the barbie figure?

So if i cover the 250 pound woman with grease and a uniform, and cut her hair above her ears....
lets just say its doubtfull she would sale as a poster girl.... guys wouldnt be interested.

I'M INTERESTED!!!
Where the heck is she?!!?
I'd love to lick her grease off.
*decides not to go into "vile" sexual practices*

A very good point Tender, really, because with guys, we're really encouraged to be ourselves, but also to comply with "manly" attitudes, so as to compete with other men ultimately, I mean, for example, I don't need a flash sports car, but it's a "male icon", I'd be happy with a mini.

With women, I don't know how you cope, to be honest, if you aren't cussing yourselves in magazines, it's on the news, on the TV, with each other, over what? Men? Confidence? Like a woman with a teeny-tiny waist is going to "Ride the Orca" more times than a woman with thighs that 'span the earth'? Or to get the better job, the better home? The better cooking skills??

Maybe it's because women are judged a lot by her looks, I mean, we have female porno models in England, that are more highly respected than our greatest female minds.

And onto your final question.

anyone who doesnt meet these standards placed by society tends to have a hard time finding their way, and being content with themselves. so the question really is, yes men are men, but if he doesnt fit into the 'standard'---how does he cope?

I really do not know, I have been there myself and it's a terribly sad and isolated area.
----
RangerSean

Each of us is different, and I'd frankly rather worry about what makes me a good human being (or IF I'm a good human being).

Amen to that.

 

[jonb]

Yeah, the only real pressure on men is not to be gay. With women, the pressure's all about looks.

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

[quote author=GottaBigOne link=board=meetgreet;num=1080624653;start=0#16 date=03/30/04 at 20:26:08]The only thing I can think about that makes a man a "man" is a "Y" chromosome.[/quote]

I thought it was fairly obvious that we weren't talking about a 'man' in a biological sense.

 

[B_DoubleMeatWhopper]

[quote author=jonb link=board=meetgreet;num=1080624653;start=20#27 date=04/01/04 at 17:46:14]Yeah, the only real pressure on men is not to be gay.[/quote]

However, to be a 'man', one should own up to who he is and be secure in it. Cowardice is not a 'manly' trait. A gay man can be a 'real man'. We're not all nelly queens.

 

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ORCABOMBER: You wouldn't beleive that if you watched British TV.

 

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GeorgenFLA: Well, there are two types of answers here. Physically a man is a male human adult. I think we all agree with that.
The other definition, in my opinion, is an adult male that is mature acting, masculine, taking responsibility for one's actions, intelligent in an adult manor, sexually verile, and must be confident in all that he does. Also should be secure with his sexual masculinity. . . . just my opinion

 

[jonb]

[quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=meetgreet;num=1080624653;start=20#29 date=04/03/04 at 08:32:56]However, to be a 'man', one should own up to who he is and be secure in it. Cowardice is not a 'manly' trait. A gay man can be a 'real man'. We're not all nelly queens.
[/quote]
I was referring to sexual double standards, how there's this general pressure to objectify women, and women are expected to take it.

The way I was raised, masculinity includes being brave, physically and emotionally strong, generous . . . A man doesn't have to be a boor about it, though.

 

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Doubtless_Mouse: I read the post and wanted to try and add something - here goes.

We talk about stereotypes, we talk about hwo they are an unfair wa to veiw the world. We mention that the world would be a much better place if people left their preconceived notions at the door. This being said, it won't happen. The stereotypes about men and women for example are reinforced by the very people who are damaged by them.

In psycology, their is a theory called the "Halo Theory" it has been tested time and time again, and it basically says that as humans we tend to treat psycially attractive people better than ugly folks. Even infants have shown different responses to ugly and good looking people. (Note: I use the term ugly because it confers a meaning of not good looking, not meaning to offend the political right or left). In buisness, it has been tested by numerous exposes and news shows that two people equally qualified, the better looking person tends to get the job.

The reason I say that we the very people who speak against stereotypse are the ones promoting it is that we try to fit the mold that main line marketing has set in respect to our sexes. How many of you buy brand names clothes? How many of you eat or drink a brand name product. These items are part of the stereotype that we speak against. You never see to ugly people kissing in the wrigley's gun commercials...while we may not consciously prmote these stereotypes, we do promote them non-the-less.

I had hoped with the onset of on-line communities that the idea of what we looked like would become a thing of the past, yet when ever people chat, they eventually come to a point where they want to know what the person they are talking to looks like. And what is funny is that people tend to describe themselves differently than than they really are. they tend to use words or expressions that paint them a picture closer to the image we see on bill-boards.

Not accusing anyone of anyting, again just wanted to add something to the discussion.

What Really makes a man - It is a hard question to answer. There are no words to expalin. To me being a man is waking up on sunday morning, walking into the living room and seeing my two beautiful children healthy. I know that I do the right thing by them. Knowing that my son will grow into a strong youg man, knowing that their welfare depends on me. That is being a man. Doing the righ thing for the right reasons, that is really being a man.

Mouse

 

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serj: I realy belive what truly separates a real man from a fluke is your word. If you say something and without question do it then that makes you a man. If you say something, and then things get weird or tough and you back off, then you are a fluke. If people can know that if you say something, and they have doubt in their mind that it will get done, then in my opinion, you have achieved the ulitmate position of manliness.

 

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bbobb21: Good question:

I teach research methods for the behavioral sciences.
One of the things I do to keep the students awake is use various aspects of what we call sex/male/female/man/woman.

There are four different variables- often confused with each:

1. Biological gender. What are gens have programed us to be physically and there are 4 possibilities: 1) Male/man, 2) female/woman, 3) Hermaphradite, and 4) none of the above.

2. Sexual Identity: What sex to I see myself as. I know a someone who falls into the none of the above category. She is neither male or female biologically but has female sexual identity.

3. Sexual Orientation: Quite simply what sex rurns us on. Same, opposite, both, neither.

4. Sexual Role: What behaviors and characteristics do we consider masculine or femimen. This differs from culture to culture and even within cultures. I am a college professor. What is considered masculine at the University is quite different from what is considered masculine among the Warlocks Motercycle gang.

As for myself, I am biologically male; have a male self identity, am bisexual (best way to be), and masculine in a gentlemanly way that is approprate to a college professor.

I do not think that my beautiful big penis makes me more and man or my friend Steve's 1 incher makes him less a man. I am in good physical shape, swim daily but do not think the coach potatoes are less men than me. That I am bisexual does not make me less a man or more a woman. I am not a woman, I am a man. The fact that I enjoy sex with men as well as women does not alter that. The great thing about it is it is two men.

bob

 

[jonb]

Well, that explains it. As I said, any definition of machismo is cultural. I mean, I explained Lakota ideas about masculinity previously in this thread. (I've always wanted to take Means, Starkey, Allen, and other public Lakota figures aside and explain that 'matriarchy' was just 19th-century ethnocentrism: Basically, it meant anyone who gave women more rights than Victorian England. But a few extra rights does not an anthropological term make.)

 

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roedhunt: Well said by everyone here. And some very profound.

Culture and society influences our perception of what makes a man a man and what makes a woman a woman. We are conditioned from the beginning what to believe in.

Wouldn't it be nice to just be yourselves instead of what society thinks you should be...

 

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wvalady1968: [quote author=roedhunt link=board=meetgreet;num=1080624653;start=20#37 date=04/07/04 at 23:23:28]Well said by everyone here. And some very profound.

Culture and society influences our perception of what makes a man a man and what makes a woman a woman. We are conditioned from the beginning what to believe in.

Wouldn't it be nice to just be yourselves instead of what society thinks you should be...[/quote]
I completely agree, Roed, but we're always gonna categorize ourselves and others. My hope is that some day we would be able to do that objectively, with no judgements, simply acknowledging facts.

Ain't likely to happen, eh?

Allie

 

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bbobb21: Indeed when we think of masculinity and femenity, the concept is social determined. One of the things I enjoy asking my students is to tell me which character in Narciss und Goldman by Hesse is the supposed to be the masculine one. Narciss is the young scholar month commited to his work. Goldman is the young man sent to the monastery to be educated. Narciss is his mentor but Goldman leaves the monastery and goes off, gets into brawl, kills a man and lays every woman in his wake. Of course they answer it wrong. Hesse used Narciss as his male model and Goldman was his female model. Of course, German culture even today holds the Herr Doctor, Herr Professor is the highest esteem. In USA professors are the most esteemed members of society to say the least. Least of all are we viewed in the popular culture as masculine. Putting Hesse's toughts into USA pop culture. Perhaps in Friends, Ross is Narciss (not really0 and of course Joey is Goldman. Bob