What should I do?

[Hippie Hollow Girl]

The reason why I answered the way I did was because of my life experiences. I am a people person.....always have been always will be.

In my extended family there are people that tend to be brutally honest 24 / 7......and even though that may be our first reaction or first response......it may be a better idea to hold the tongue and think about what you say and how this person might respond to it before it is blurted out of one's mouth.

I have just seen that brutal honesty is not always the best way to go 24 / 7.

Not everyone can handle brutal honesty be it male or female. I think you need to learn to read people and only give brutal honesty to people that ask for it and seem genually appreciative of it. Obviously the girl the OP was talking about was feeling negative or down and made a negative comment about herself. It probably would have been the best thing to not have responded at all. Just ignore her. Like the old saying......if you don't have anything good to say.....don't say anything at all. (Unless you know the person can handle whatever your brutal honest opinion is.....)


From what I could gather the OP was asking us what he could do to get his friendship back on track with this female friend that he liked a lot.

To me it sounds like Phil is saying that he should just say this is me, I am brutally honest with my opinions and if you don't like it .......you don't have to be my friend anymore.

And that is an option that he could take.......

But what I gathered is that the OP didn't mean to hurt his friend. He wishes that he could undo what he said.


Anyways I just wanted the OP to know that I am there with you.......I have spent most of my life learning how to control my tongue......so I don't share my brutal honest opinion with someone that I care about and that might not feel so good about their self afterwards. I just believe there is a way to share things that we really have to share......It is a lot in how we word things.

And women are not the only ones that can be sensitive to brutal honesty. I am sure males can be offended just as well.

It is too bad that this couldn't have been turned into a funny joke. That is what I like about people that are not serious 100% of the time. They can get away with a lot more.

Start practicing some jokes and see if you can get your friend to laugh...to get her mind off of the fact that you told her that she is not so smart..... You can choose to laugh or cry......in life......I prefer to laugh. Maybe she will too.

 

[sexplease]

You apologized. Once, and sincerely, is enough. If the person being apologized to doesn't accept it graciously, they are less like likely to get one in the future. That is their growing.

I'm sure you've learned and grown from this.

check out a book called, "Don't Sweat The Small Stuff, and it's all small stuff"

Michael*

candies get eaten,
flowers wilt,
but the written word.... last forever.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Phil, you say so many things that sound good until one looks at them twice.

If that were the case, her response would not have been anger, but sadness, tears, or questions as to why he thought so...

A typical Phil response.
A reaction of anger would have been entirely plausible, every bit as much as sadness, tears or questions.
Her response would have been questions as to why he thought so? Well, that is exactly the sort of question the OP said she posed: "She insisted that I say why."

She did not ask him if he thought she was stupid... she made a statement.

And the OP himself says, "So now I feel terrible saying what I realize I shouldn't have said.

How many statements have you made that, when people agree with you, you react to with anger?

I can't remember a single case ... but that's not my MO.

She knew exactly what she was doing and what she wanted... she could have asked for reinforcement, support, sympathy... or any other direct and honest communication.

Of course she could have, but questions of the "Do these pants make me look fat" category are really very clear.
And even the OP, in retrospect, realizes it.

If the OP did not feel like being played like a pipe organ, he has the honorable opportunity to illuminate that fact for her.

And yet he is deeply regretful about the choice he made.
You lard everything up with drama.

He cares about her, he loves her, and he was honest....

I assume that, but that does not mean telling a woman who looks fat in a pair of pants, and asks, "Do these pants make me look fat?," "Yes, doll, you look fat."
Not every example of honesty is wise. (Of course, you will disagree and ... To each his own, I guess.)

If she cared about anything other than herself, that is what should matter...

One cannot infer from what we know that she cares nothing about anything other than herself.

Living in the covenant of expectation is to live in suffering, and to be a creator of suffering for others.

The OP writes because he has created suffering for both of them by doing the sort of thing you are extolling.
Very very few people move beyond what you call "the covenant of expectations."
Have you?
Really?

Spiritual practice in a social setting is not about making it easy for others to continue as they are... its about opening their eyes.

Sounds good, but ...
The OP has never suggested that what she did in the situation he described is her way of doing everything.
It is a singular situation (as far as we know) that went badly wrong.
You would do otherwise to bring her up to your level?
How thin is the air on Mount Olympus?

What you suggest is that the solution to emotional blackmail is play along? I am suggesting that the solution is to refuse to play along.

If the pattern in the relationship is one of emotional blackmail, then that has to change. But the OP hasn't suggested that such a pattern exists. He is talking about a specific incident, one in which he thinks he went wrong.

You pay the ransom, they ask for more ransom. You refuse to pay the ransom... the manipulation ends right there.

You are so melodramatic, always.

Rinzai!!

Oh, rinzai, Phil. Rinzai forever!!!

 

[Smooth88]

She's over it. She got mad not necessarily because of the "not that smart" comment but because I tried to justify it. She is smart and she does go to the University of Michigan but I just feel her intelligence has boundaries like everyone. I wasn't trying to indict her or anything. My problem is I have an extremely hard time reading people and their feelings. So I'm prone to this kind of stuff. It really sucks.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

She's over it. She got mad not necessarily because of the "not that smart" comment but because I tried to justify it. She is smart and she does go to the University of Michigan but I just feel her intelligence has boundaries like everyone. I wasn't trying to indict her or anything. My problem is I have an extremely hard time reading people and their feelings. So I'm prone to this kind of stuff. It really sucks.

Glad she's over it, Smooth.
Of course you weren't trying to indict her ... that's why you had some qualms about it.
Hope things keep on a good course.

 

[Hippie Hollow Girl]

Glad to hear it Smooth,

I hope that this means you won't have any more trouble sleeping.....that you will be able to get caught up on your much needed rest. It really sucks when something bothers a person and it interrups their sleep. It makes everything so much harder just to function and do the day to day stuff that one has to do as a college student. Or that was the way it was for me way back when I was a college student.

You are a good person and I know your friend knows that too.

I am sending you good thoughts.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

And the OP himself says, "So now I feel terrible saying what I realize I shouldn't have said.

So what? He realizes he "shouldn't" have said it because she is punishing him. After he beats himself up enough to satisfy her ego and after he implies that he will play this game by her rules, she will get over it.

She get what she wants... i.e. control over his expression.
He gets to feel guilty and a vague sense of resentment over the fact that he must walk the tightrope defined by her threats of emotionality.

This is no more a solution than giving in to any child's tantrum.

Of course she could have, but questions of the "Do these pants make me look fat" category are really very clear.

Yes... same kind of manipulative game..., Men should not deign to play. If the pants make her look fat say so...
If its her fat ass that makes her pants look fat, say so.

Or, even better, simply tell her you decline to saunter thru her minefield.

Soon enough, she will learn not to ask unless she wants to know what you really feel.

And yet he is deeply regretful about the choice he made.
You lard everything up with drama.

Oh... its the lard that makes my pants look fat?

You can call it melodrama... I don't... SHE instigated the drama... HE has to apologize for HER brittle emotional hysterics?

Senor... it is these tiny little infractions of each other's individuality, freedom, and personality that build up, over years, to the resentment, ennui, and suppressed anger that tears couples and friends apart.

You can call it drama... but its the actual truth of the exchange... without the elaboration, without the touchy feely nonsense of the PC perspective and new age psychobabble.

She laid a trap by saying something dishonest. He fell in by saying something honest. She pitched a fit until he begged forgiveness.

End of story...

it was a contest of wills
Guess who won?

I assume that, but that does not mean telling a woman who looks fat in a pair of pants, and asks, "Do these pants make me look fat?," "Yes, doll, you look fat."
Not every example of honesty is wise. (Of course, you will disagree and ... To each his own, I guess.)

I actually agree. surprise!
I am not advocating being honest all the time... In fact, I posted a comment in support of telling lies when appropriate in a thread on honesty.

This has nothing to do with that.

This has to do with the specific tendency of some to CONTROL others thru manipulative emotional blackmail, and demand that they speak only the words that have been pre-scripted for them, ( without actually offering them the script)

That particular behavior should be frustrated at every opportunity.
That is what I am talking about...
Not honesty...
but intent...

She lied to him with the intent of controlling his response, and then pitched a fit to establish her control over what he can and can not say.

That is not defensible.
Not ever.


But more importantly... it is how relationships fail... this is the same kind of daily, hourly, minute by minute exercise in generating frustrations and resentment that, when it occurs between lovers... leads to infidelity.

If your partner does not even allow you to express your true feelings, for fear of their reaction.... then that is the end of any hope for real intimacy...

This girl may only have been a friend... but she will play this same manipulative game with any man she marries... with the same, predictable outcome... because she is allowed to get away with it.

It works for her...



In my own relationship, my wife often asks me if an outfit makes her look good or bad....

I tell her the honest truth... the first few times I told her the truth, she was not entirely happy about it...

However, She has come to rely on the fact that, being an artist, I can tell her exactly what does and what does not flatter her and show her in the best light.


Trust me.. it is far better to be able to speak to her directly and honestly than it ever was to have to lie to my ex.

The best relationships I have ever seen all have one thing in common.... both partners appreciate and value the other's honestly expressed feelings.


If it seems melodramatic... consider this...

This one dynamic... of demanding others fulfill your expectations by doing and saying what you think they ought to....

This is the single biggest obstacle to successful long term relationships.


ALL marital and long term issues of contention are rooted in this one dynamic.


Controlling men... controlling women...
The absolutism of one partner dictating to the other.


If you have one in your life.... you know exactly what I am talking about.

 

[marleyisalegend]

My problem is I get too honest with my opinions. Now I feel extremely bad.

the problem with everybody's obsession with 'keepin it real' and 'speaking their mind' and being 'too honest with their opinions' is that, especially young people, few do it respectfully and it usually ends up being more just making judgments about everybody else. do you think you'd have been as quick to agree if she said she was smart?? i'd hope so

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

End of story...

Definitively, Phil.