What the F*ck TSA?

[Principessa]

btw- NJQT466. Your post was way too xenophobic. Just because someone doesn't fit your stereotype of what an American should be doesn't mean they are not American. The most incompetent TSA workers I have encountered were some really fat black women in Chicago. They could barely move their obese asses or speak understandable English. TSA employees are under-trained and underpaid and that's not their fault.

I'm sorry I offended you. You are correct. My bad I left out uneducated American ghetto blacks who may as well speak a foreign language as I can't understand them anyway.:tongue:

That is exactly what bothers me this is supposed to be a VERY important job. Why are we giving it to people who are just there because they were rejected to be on Jerry Springer?

 

[got_lost]

Eh what?!!?

Sorry.... :redface: Just got completely distracted watching Vince's video... :biggrin1: :tongue:


I've just travelled extensively through the US and have to say I honestly thought they were terribly lax.

Certainly feel security is much better in UK and Europe than over there. Once you have your boarding pass hardly anyone is even interested in your ID again. In the UK you have to show it right up to the point of boarding.

Very few bags ever seemed to get searched. I set off remarkably few detectors and over here I do all the time (I'm sure it's my bra... ) but they all seemed to be pretty pleasant, considering they seemed to be quite over worked.

There never seemed to be enough security scanners open so huge queues for those that were which just must meant pressure on the staff to get everyone through.

I am sure it's a thankless task.

Did hate the 'taking the boots off' thing everytime though...


The other thing that struck me (though why should they care) was the lack of security to get into baggage claim from outside and just help yourself to anyones luggage.

My luggage didn't accompany me to Portland (thx LAX) and when I went to collect it when it did eventually catch up with me I just walked into the baggage office, saw it and picked it up.

Nobody asked me for any ID or anything!


OK... enough babbling.... back to vince's vid.... :tongue:

 

[dong20]

That is exactly what bothers me this is supposed to be a VERY important job. Why are we giving it to people who are just there because they were rejected to be on Jerry Springer?

I've not flown into or through the US in a couple of years now. I don't recall ever having had any real issues other than at least half the staff looking like someone stole their last toffee. But in that line of work, I can't say I blame them feeling grumpy. That said, the queuing is often horrendous, but then I use Heathrow a lot so I'm well vaccinated.

It seems to me that the (alleged) use of poorly trained (and poorly quality checked) staff for this (TSA) role runs a real risk of rendering the end result more dangerous than simply using better targeted spot checks with fewer highly trained staff. Sadly 'better' targeting is the issue, but truly 'random' checks are effectively more than an exercise in futile hope, like the lottery, really. Of course we all know they're not really that random.

Besides, airport security is riddled with holes, most of them airside. I've long been of the view that the bulk of the recent escalated landside passenger screening is more an exercise in job creation and misdirecting the travelling public than any real attempt to actually improve security. Still, that said it's not an easy balance to achieve.

Aside:

I also thought some elements of your comments were OTT, had other posters said such things, I'd wager you would have been on their case in a heartbeat. I'm surprised Northland hasn't taken you to task already for the terrorist faux pas. Acknowledging a statement as racist (which you did) doesn't excuse you making it.

 

[DC_DEEP]

One thing everyone should keep in mind is that they can't fix what they don't know needs fixing. If TSA handles you or your property badly or improperly, report it. Officially.

I had an issue with one of the screeners once, and requested a supervisor. The supervisor was really hateful and rude, and refused to show me her ID when I requested it (she was required by law to show me her ID.) Her exact words were, "I'm a federal agent, I don't have to identify myself." I filed a report with the TSA office, and they tried to weasel out of it by saying "we have no way of knowing who it was, if you don't have a name or employee number." I gave a very exact description of her, and the exact time and location, and told them that there were worse problems than terrorists if they don't know who is supervising at the security checkpoints. I also forwarded a copy of my complaints & responses to my congressional representatives. They did take action, or at least said that they did.

On another occasion, I had an agent grab my bag after it went through X-ray, and just walk away with it. I had to argue with a supervisor that time, too, and they called airport police over to deal with me. The supervisor kept arguing, "we cannot allow you to fly if you do not allow us to inspect your bag." I kept arguing, "inspecting my bag is not the issue; the agent taking it out of my sight without so much as a 'do you mind' is the issue. No one takes my bag away without my consent. No one. And it does not leave my sight. Period."

I must admit, though, they have gotten better over the last couple of years. I haven't had to file a complaint since about 2005.

 

[dong20]

One thing everyone should keep in mind is that they can't fix what they don't know needs fixing. If TSA handles you or your property badly or improperly, report it. Officially.

I had an issue with one of the screeners once, and requested a supervisor. The supervisor was really hateful and rude, and refused to show me her ID when I requested it (she was required by law to show me her ID.) Her exact words were, "I'm a federal agent, I don't have to identify myself." I filed a report with the TSA office, and they tried to weasel out of it by saying "we have no way of knowing who it was, if you don't have a name or employee number." I gave a very exact description of her, and the exact time and location, and told them that there were worse problems than terrorists if they don't know who is supervising at the security checkpoints. I also forwarded a copy of my complaints & responses to my congressional representatives. They did take action, or at least said that they did.

On another occasion, I had an agent grab my bag after it went through X-ray, and just walk away with it. I had to argue with a supervisor that time, too, and they called airport police over to deal with me. The supervisor kept arguing, "we cannot allow you to fly if you do not allow us to inspect your bag." I kept arguing, "inspecting my bag is not the issue; the agent taking it out of my sight without so much as a 'do you mind' is the issue. No one takes my bag away without my consent. No one. And it does not leave my sight. Period."

I must admit, though, they have gotten better over the last couple of years. I haven't had to file a complaint since about 2005.

Perhaps others took the same robust approach, one can only hope.

I suspect I know how you got 'databased', DC.:tongue:

 

[vince]

I'm sorry I offended you. You are correct. My bad I left out uneducated American ghetto blacks who may as well speak a foreign language as I can't understand them anyway.:tongue:

That is exactly what bothers me this is supposed to be a VERY important job. Why are we giving it to people who are just there because they were rejected to be on Jerry Springer?

That's OK. I wasn't personally offended. But the folks or their relatives to whom your remarks were directed may have been. Same goes for the Jerry Springer rejects. We don't live in a vacuum here. As far as the quality of their work goes... I guess you get what you pay for.

Eh what?!!?

Sorry.... :redface: Just got completely distracted watching Vince's video... :biggrin1: :tongue:
SORRY KK! :biggrin1:

I've just travelled extensively through the US and have to say I honestly thought they were terribly lax.

Certainly feel security is much better in UK and Europe than over there. Once you have your boarding pass hardly anyone is even interested in your ID again. In the UK you have to show it right up to the point of boarding.

I dunno... Last year I flew out of Milan to here. When I went to board the connecting flight in Istanbul they found my 5 inch jack knife in my hand bag! I had forgetten to put it in my checked bag! So they had me take it to the airport Police who put it in a special bag which was given to the cabin crew. When I reached my final destination, the airline brought it to the baggage claim and gave it to me. Nice service I thought. In the US I would have probably locked up. Point is- The Italian airport security totally f'd up.

I have been wondering... why do they give us plastic knives but metal forks to eat with? I think if one were to hold a fork to someone's neck, it would be just bad as a knife. And what's dangerous about carrying toothpaste onboard? And why does putting it in a ziplock bag make it safer? I just don't get it!

 

[got_lost]

:biggrin1: Ooh there it is again!!! :tongue:

I KNOW!!! Tell me about the ziplock bags?!?! They don't make sense...

And.... when I flew out of Bristol back last Nov (and damn me I'd forgotten my ziplock bag ) they weren't giving them away.

They wanted £1 for a pack of 4 ziplock bags

WTF do you need 4 for?
And £1? F off!! :redface:

 

[DC_DEEP]

Perhaps others took the same robust approach, one can only hope.

I suspect I know how you got 'databased', DC.:tongue:

Must have been that terrifying Miyazawa Boston Classic I tried to sneak past 'em.

Every terrorist carries a dangerous flute around, we all know that!

 

[dong20]

I have been wondering... why do they give us plastic knives but metal forks to eat with? I think if one were to hold a fork to someone's neck, it would be just bad as a knife. And what's dangerous about carrying toothpaste onboard? And why does putting it in a ziplock bag make it safer? I just don't get it!

These things have been a source of bemusement to me for years. Especially so since in Business and first you do get a metal knife (I always have at least). Clearly FJ Pax are not deemed a security risk. Ironic given 9/11.

There's a host of other things; for example noone bats an eyelid at a fountain pen but it could be a darned effective weapon - even a humble Biro could kill or incapacitate in the right (wrong) hands, and probably more effectively than a blunted butter knife. A long thin type laptop battery would make an effective club. Scissors - allowed if blades less than four inches!!!

One other thing is insane, if one can't smoke on-board (and generally in terminals) why allow materials capable of starting fire into the cabin - a lighter, a book of matches (safety - not strike anywhere of course), as if that wasn't a dumb enough exemption, at least it's now only one book, it was four I believe - but only in your pocket not in the carry on bag.

None of these (including a decent steak knife) will get one onto the flight deck. Although I guess if all else fails, one could set fire to something with the lighter or safety matches ...

There are too many token gestures aimed at placating the easily led yet their main effect is delays and extra cost, when the real risk remains airside.

 

[deleted213967]

I fly weekly for work (mostly domestic US) and by now I have come to accept the TSA circus show.

It is mostly an exercise in futility, obviously meant to reassure the more naive segment of the flying population.

The latest fad I have observed is the apparent scrutiny of passengers' driver licenses, an apparent attempt to spot fake IDs.

I am still surprised so few people question the procedure and its vacuity:

So what you are the person whose name appears on the boarding pass. Big freaking deal! If you were a terrorist employed by a well-heeled organization, couldn't you afford a round-trip ticket anywhere even if you intended to never return from "Heaven"? Wouldn't it be the standard MO for any terrorist, even the dumbest?

Ditto with paying with cash. Don't they know that? Don't their boss have access to a web of charity organization fronts?

To their credit, most of the TSA employees I have encountered nationwide are courteous and intent on making the experience less inefficient.

My idea of an exotic vacation is now NOT having to fly anywhere.

 

[deleted213967]

The other thing that baffles me is that private-sector monopolists like ChoicePoint and Equifax have more information about us than TSA.

Scary stuff...

 

[vince]

My idea of an exotic vacation is now NOT having to fly anywhere.

Ditto! I hate getting in those flying beer cans! It is not natural. In fact the whole system from the time I walk in the airport to the time system spits me out the other end is unpleasant. Doesn't matter if I am in biz class or next to the toilet in the back row of a DC9.. I hate it.

Give me the open road and two wheels and I'm happy. :wink:

 

[got_lost]

Oh vince I'm addicted to that flipping video! :redface:

I was with you both, Domisoldo & vince... having been flying at least once a fortnight for years, I swore when I finished work that I wasn't flying anywhere for a long time to come.

I was bemused when that only lasted 5 months. And now I can't keep away from travelling...

Weirdly though, when you're on your own time, and not just a short holiday, it's not so frustrating. I love all parts of my trips, flying included... :redface:

 

[Principessa]

My main pet peeve is removing my shoes, especially in the summer. If I am wearing sandals why can they not just run the wand over my feet or better yet just look at them and tell they do not contain an incendiary device?

I have this thing about germs; so standing barefoot on a filthy airport floor is sometimes enough to induce a panic attack. :redface: Do they seriously expect that I would butcher an $80 pair of Ralph Lauren leather sandals? NOT! Odder still is the amount of people flying in rubber drugstore flip-flops and things. You can see their entire foot! Why would you think those things were bombs? There isn't room in the sole of those things to put an SD card why on earth would there be a bomb?

Ranting over :tongue: :soapbox:

 

[hockeycock]

I am a proud man, so I've decided never to fly anywhere, ever, again. Why not? Because something about the meaningless ritual of being ordered to take off my shoes makes me very angry, so angry that it's worth a lifestyle change to avoid it.

My problem is with the idiotic false-sense-of-security policies that only the enormous bureaucracy known as the Department of Homeland Security (does "Homeland Security" sound to anyone else like a midwestern bank?) could imagine prevent terrorist attacks, not with the poor saps who have to implement them. In 2002, the starting salary for airport screeners was $23,836 to $35,754 per year (I haven't seen any more recent figures). That's not horrible, but it's hard to raise a family on that wage, and seems incommensurate to the importance the federal government places on keeping nail clippers out of planes. I can't imagine it's very rewarding to deal with pissed off travellers who can barely conceal their contempt for the entire futile process all day for such a wage. So I give the screeners I've dealt with credit for always being professional and courteous with me.

Anyway, the one bad experience I have had with TSA personnel was on a return flight from the Yucatan peninsula in Mexico. I was bringing back six pieces of handmade pottery in my checked baggage, all of which were well-packed and heavily cushioned. Apparently, there was also a matchbook in my bag, because when I got home, there was a little slip of paper in there saying that "TSA screeners have removed any lighters or matches discovered in you [sic] baggage." Four of the six pottery pieces had been smashed to smithereens. I hope they at least had fun.

 

[deleted213967]

I passed through TSA at least 4 times in the past 12 months with all my toiletries (gels, liquids, cream, ...) in my carry-on roller. It was purely accidental (I travel so much), but those episodes reflect on the impossibly tedious character of their task.

I used to berate TSA for not using more bomb-sniffing dogs but then I read how incredibly difficult and costly it is to train those dogs (who never get a life).

 

[got_lost]

My main pet peeve is removing my shoes, especially in the summer. If I am wearing sandals why can they not just run the wand over my feet or better yet just look at them and tell they do not contain an incendiary device?

I have this thing about germs; so standing barefoot on a filthy airport floor is sometimes enough to induce a panic attack. :redface: Do they seriously expect that I would butcher an $80 pair of Ralph Lauren leather sandals? NOT! Odder still is the amount of people flying in rubber drugstore flip-flops and things. You can see their entire foot! Why would you think those things were bombs? There isn't room in the sole of those things to put an SD card why on earth would there be a bomb?

Ranting over :tongue: :soapbox:

But Darling, the airport floor is beautifully clean - as cleaned by all us poor saps shuffling round in our socks buffing it nicely!

I prefer the summer to the winter - I've travelled round the US in a pair of cats (caterpillar boots) which are an utter pain in the arse to take on and off . At least in summer I can just slip off my sandals (and just hope all the blokes are still buffing the floors in their socks :tongue:

 

[SpeedoGuy]

The other thing that struck me (though why should they care) was the lack of security to get into baggage claim from outside and just help yourself to anyones luggage.

This has always puzzled me as well. Baggage claim is a theft risk as well as a terrorism risk. Anyone wanting to place a bomb where a lot of people gather could easily bring one into baggage claim and leave it there.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I.
The latest fad I have observed is the apparent scrutiny of passengers' driver licenses, an apparent attempt to spot fake IDs.

I've noticed this as well.

 

[transformer_99]

I have a difficult time believing a MacBook Air gets pulled aside. The only time I've ever had an issue (just over a month ago), a 6.0 oz tube of toothpaste they made me throw away because it was not the 3.5 oz travel size.

To be honest, what happens if they confiscate the notebook and the owner can't reclaim it because of inconvenience and so on. Is it auctioned (eventually on ebay) or stolen by a TSA employee for themself ? I bet like stolen bicycles that wind up at police auctions, that might've been the incentive.

Crimes by Homeland Security agents stir alert - 03/05/2008 - MiamiHerald.com