What the hell is wrong with kids?

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

The girl is psychotic. From her actions we can't draw conclusions about a generation, and we shouldn't use her sick behavior as a metaphor for the wider inhumane treatment of other men that adults practice on a global level. As a poster pointed out, of a lengthy list of behaviors that serial killers may exhibit, the one that is present in all serial killers is crueltly to defenseless animals. I am not suggesting that she is a potential serial killer, but she is fucked up.

 

[B_Lightkeeper]

Shortly after reading these posts, there was a story tonight on the 10 pm news. A man had taken four or five very young kittens and placed them in a frying pan with hot grease. Somehow, neighbors reported him and he was arrested. The kittens were taken to an animal shelter where they were treated.
This guy is sick! He should get the same punishment but with no medical treatment!
And yes, in case you're wondering, I love animals - everything but snakes and spiders.

 

[BarebackJack]

Actually, there is some research that suggests that serial killers do start out by abusing small animals when they are children. Horrific.

As a child, Dubya reportedly used to burn insects and pull off their wings. As an "adult" he approved more executions of inmates while Gov. of Texas than any other Governor in US history (152 total). I'd call that legalized serial killing. And for the past 3 years he has been sending innocent people to their deaths in a war he started.

I think in the future there should be a requirement at EVERY level of government that all potential candidates must take a polygraph test to prove they did not abuse or torture small animals as children, and if they refuse, or if they fail the test, they are disqualified from running!

 

[DC_DEEP]

It's interesting to look at the general trends from a perspective of those who reached adolescence "pre-Dr-Benjamin-Spock" and those who reached adolescence "post-Spock."

Once the fad really caught on, parenting became "reasoning with the child, rather than punishing." I know there are exceptions, but a child under age 8 or so really doesn't understand reasoning, but they do understand when you tell them "you know better than to behave that way, so now there will be consequences. you may not play your video game for the rest of the day." Those "well-reasoned" children learned that if they misbehave, the worst that will happen is mommy or daddy will give them about 5 minutes of that boring blah-blah-blah. They grew up with an "entitlement" world view, and their parenting styles evolved to a very laissez-faire situation. And that, with the growing necessity of all adults in a household working outside the home, created new problems - parents were too tired to do any parenting.

Too many parents just do not understand that the reason for a child's misbehavior is often nothing more than the child searching for limits. In early formative situations the parent should be setting (and sticking to) firm limits, but too often end up letting the child have his way because it's easier. Unfortunately, the message that sends to the child is "There are no limits, there are no consequences; throughout your life, you are entitled to have your way, regardless of anything else. Whatever you must do to have things your way, it's ok."

It's not what is "wrong with kids these days," it's what's wrong with parents. And don't follow up with the usual excuses (it's hard being a parent these days <then you shouldn't be one> or kids have more serious problems now than they used to <not really, they are just not equipped to deal with problems>)

 

[sunsetapisto]

As a child, Dubya reportedly used to burn insects and pull off their wings. As an "adult" he approved more executions of inmates while Gov. of Texas than any other Governor in US history (152 total). I'd call that legalized serial killing. And for the past 3 years he has been sending innocent people to their deaths in a war he started.

I think in the future there should be a requirement at EVERY level of government that all potential candidates must take a polygraph test to prove they did not abuse or torture small animals as children, and if they refuse, or if they fail the test, they are disqualified from running!

or pol pot in cambodia killed 1 million of his own people. I think we have it pretty easy with serial killers in our government.

Also start researching saddam hussein killing the kurdish people in iraq.

And then theres the classic Hitler

just to name a few.

 

[Hatched69]

All I had to see was "Indianapolis". Ever see gummo? Welcome to the psychotic land of the Midwest, that shit's real.

Pardon me, but not all of us here in The Corn State are insane
...., but this little twit should suffer at least the same as the cat.:zx11pissed: I personally have more compassion for animals than I have for humans.

 

[JustAsking]

Yeah but cats are cuter and more fluffy and in addition to having more legal rights cruelty to cats is a punishable offence.

Not if you take them out of the country to undisclosed locations around the world before you torture them.

 

[JustAsking]

or pol pot in cambodia killed 1 million of his own people. I think we have it pretty easy with serial killers in our government.

Also start researching saddam hussein killing the kurdish people in iraq.

And then theres the classic Hitler

just to name a few.

Yes, I agree sunsetapisto. GWB is really just an amateur at this what with only a hundred thousand or so meanlingless civilian deaths under his belt. You did manage to place him on the right scale, though. At least he is trying.

 

[JustAsking]

And so says every generation about the next one.

Wasn't there an ancient Greek politician who gave a famous lecture on the state of the younger generation of his time? I seem to remember that if you read it without knowing who wrote it, you would conclude it was written a week ago.

 

[sunsetapisto]

Yes, I agree sunsetapisto. GWB is really just an amateur at this what with only a hundred thousand or so meanlingless civilian deaths under his belt. You did manage to place him on the right scale, though. At least he is trying.

I'm glad we see eye to eye

Rather than complaining about him on the internet to people you don't even know, just start voting democrat or independent in your local and state elections. The president didn't just decide to go to war you know, we have a system of checks and balances that is also responsible.

Please consider that our founding fathers established a country with this principle in mind, they made a fool proof system in which we are governed democratically by the people, for the people. To imply that the president is authoratarian is to insult their intelligence.

I have one more point - Do you have any idea how many people die on america's highways? Why don't you launch a crusade against that? Thats something thats in our country, here and now. It's not in some foreign land were many people can't quite imagine, but it's a danger most of us confront every day. There's better things to do with your time then sitting around and complaining while looking for newspaper articles about how terrible the president is. Go do some volunteer work. Read to people at an old folks home. Pick up trash. If you want change to happen then get off your ass and start. Grassroots.

(PS don't spam the thread with like 11 one-thought replies, these threads typically get quite long and one person posting an entire page sequentially makes it even longer)

 

[b.c.]

It's interesting to look at the general trends from a perspective of those who reached adolescence "pre-Dr-Benjamin-Spock" and those who reached adolescence "post-Spock."

Once the fad really caught on, parenting became "reasoning with the child, rather than punishing." I know there are exceptions, but a child under age 8 or so really doesn't understand reasoning, but they do understand when you tell them "you know better than to behave that way, so now there will be consequences. you may not play your video game for the rest of the day." Those "well-reasoned" children learned that if they misbehave, the worst that will happen is mommy or daddy will give them about 5 minutes of that boring blah-blah-blah. They grew up with an "entitlement" world view, and their parenting styles evolved to a very laissez-faire situation. And that, with the growing necessity of all adults in a household working outside the home, created new problems - parents were too tired to do any parenting.

Too many parents just do not understand that the reason for a child's misbehavior is often nothing more than the child searching for limits. In early formative situations the parent should be setting (and sticking to) firm limits, but too often end up letting the child have his way because it's easier. Unfortunately, the message that sends to the child is "There are no limits, there are no consequences; throughout your life, you are entitled to have your way, regardless of anything else. Whatever you must do to have things your way, it's ok."

It's not what is "wrong with kids these days," it's what's wrong with parents. And don't follow up with the usual excuses (it's hard being a parent these days <then you shouldn't be one> or kids have more serious problems now than they used to <not really, they are just not equipped to deal with problems>)

This is PRECISELY my take on it DC. I read the Slate article and have read the initial responses to this thread all offering various explanations such as "what's wrong with kids is the way they're treated by adults" etc. In the article it stated that the kids involved with these kinds of crimes had feelings of loneliness, depression, and not being popular with girls.

Well, this is nothing new... kids have always had to deal with these problems (including yours truly). So why now do some seek this relatively new "solution" of shooting up the place (contrary to schlotsky's earlier assertion that school shooting were not new), this extreme way of acting out their feelings?

The earlier argument proposed in this thread was that the problem was what we do to kids. That's in part right and wrong.

As I stated earlier, It's wrong in that kids have more forms of entertainment, more resources, more outlets, more protection than they have ever enjoyed before. Nowdays, parents getting "physical" with their kids (with regard to reprimand) can, with a phone call, find themselves charged with child abuse. So in that way we haven't "done" anything to them.

On the other hand, the argument is correct for a similar reason: i.e. we have left them alone. The adage, I think, of "spare the rod spoil the child" applies here (whereas the "rod" is not so much an implement of punishment, but rather "the rule"). As DC suggests, for too long too many kids have been on a kind of "autopilot"...indulged without limits or consequences, victims of absentee parenting, without someone to listen, someone to guide, someone to set the limits.

The psyche of "no consequence" is ingrained in our kids' minds in minute, undetectible levels and reinforced on a broader scale by news events which only confirm the notion. (The other night I was reading about Strawberry Shortcake dolls. The doll and the mythos behind the product became and is still quite popular. Did you know that in "Strawberryland" you get Christmas presents whether you're naughty or nice, and that it's illegal to give punishments?)

Maybe a solution is somewhere between those that are being suggested, and some "old school" forms of "tough love".

 

[jeff black]

It's not what is "wrong with kids these days," it's what's wrong with parents. And don't follow up with the usual excuses (it's hard being a parent these days <then you shouldn't be one> or kids have more serious problems now than they used to <not really, they are just not equipped to deal with problems>)

You know, DC, you have a point.. but this paragraph is unfair. Parents do have a responsibility to repremand their children, and raise them to the best of their abilities. However, you can beat the shit out of a kid, and they will turn psycho. At the same time, you can love them unconditionally, and support them, and they STILL turn out psycho.

A good batch of family support is benificial to kids, but it doesn't mean that the parents can take all the blame. Kids can become a serial killer because it is more than just parents.. it is a medical condition, excess neurochemicals in the brain, and improper functioning of parts of the brain.

 

[Freddie53]

What is wrong with kids today? Their parents and society as a whole. We adults are the ones who make all the extreme violent videos. We adutls are the ones who moelst some of them. We adults are the ones who fail to teach eternal values. We adults are the ones who don't have time to spend with our children. I meant quality time. Realy one on one. Each child having each parent all to him or her self on a regular basis.

As I recall, previous generations have killed millions in wars, owned slaves, run assembly lines wihout restroom, water or food breaks all day and the list goes on.

But let's not let what we as adults both present and past get in the way of a good story. Le'ts really shit on today's kids and totally blame them.

Truth is, I have been cousnelor at youth events this year. And the best kids I have ever seen are the ones living as teens right now. Never have the good kids been more responsible then they are now. I would put the best of the best of our youth against the best of the best youth of any previous genration anyday. No doubt today's kids would win everytime.

Never hurt a kid

We don't have a "kid problem" We jave an auldt problem.

 

[b.c.]

What is wrong with kids today? Their parents and society as a whole. We adults are the ones who make all the extreme violent videos. We adutls are the ones who moelst some of them. We adults are the ones who fail to teach eternal values. We adults are the ones who don't have time to spend with our children. I meant quality time. Realy one on one. Each child having each parent all to him or her self on a regular basis.

As I recall, previous generations have killed millions in wars, owned slaves, run assembly lines wihout restroom, water or food breaks all day and the list goes on.

But let's not let what we as adults both present and past get in the way of a good story. Le'ts really shit on today's kids and totally blame them.

Truth is, I have been cousnelor at youth events this year. And the best kids I have ever seen are the ones living as teens right now. Never have the good kids been more responsible then they are now. I would put the best of the best of our youth against the best of the best youth of any previous genration anyday. No doubt today's kids would win everytime.

Never hurt a kid

We don't have a "kid problem" We jave an auldt problem.

I agree 1000% with you second to the last line: NEVER hurt a kid. And nothing hurts them more than letting them grow up believing they're "not responsible".

I know that's not what you're saying. But I also know that there are a few too many who think precisely that.

 

[systemshock3]

Since I only a few years back (7 to be precise) got done being one of said kids, I think I can tell you what is wrong with many of them.

Despite what some have said about kids and teens these days NOT having it harder than previous generations...I think they are wrong. Children are basically taught to be more aggressive at a younger age...but not because of violent video games or anything, rather something benign and seemingly harmless: The world today expects a GREAT DEAL more from children as they grow up because the world is far more competative, earlier in life than it was even 10-15 years ago.

If you are basically told that you have to start thinking about what you can do to place yourself ahead of the OTHER children at a young age, constantly placed under pressure that previous generations did not experience until college or corporate america, then you would come to see the world around you not as something to be explored and patiently interacted with..but as a world of winners and losers, with a 'I'm going to get MINE' attitude.

Looking at many of my peers, it started around the early 1980's (around the time I was born), and seems to have gotten worse with every subsequent generation.

How to create generations of children that are both competative but also able to be a bit more...well, human? Its a complex answer, and I think there are many pieces to it. I can only use some of the best examples of my own generation as examples....and, lower down that list...myself LOL.

I grew up playing violent video games and watching rated-R movies (mmm, First-person shooters and fighting games...yum), which my parents NEVER had a problem with. Why? Because they also took the time to interact with me as a human being...to make me wonder about PEOPLE, and what people felt and thought and believed...they made me develop at least some small sense of empathy, of humanism. It is because of this (my faith was helpful in this as well), that I feel that I and many other young people are able to tell the difference between blowing an alien's head off online and blowing someone's head off in real life.

Online, that was just pixels (very well lit, animated and modeled pixels )...whereas in REAL life...that would be someones brother, or uncle, or dad.

When more children see the world around them as people and objects of importance to other people instead of nameless faceless obstacles, I feel that there will be very little wrong with our kids...

Sorry for the long post

 

[madame_zora]

Pardon me, but not all of us here in The Corn State are insane
...., but this little twit should suffer at least the same as the cat.:zx11pissed: I personally have more compassion for animals than I have for humans.

haha, I know that Hatched69, but I DID live in Indiana for a while as a teen and I've lived in the midwest all of my life- please tell me that kids in the country don't torture animals. I'm not saying all of them, I'm just saying it's hardly rare. Some of the shit I saw in real life was far more horrific than a saran-wrapped cat. Highlights:

*cats having bottle rockets stuck up the ass

*cats stuffed into suitcases and thrown into a lake

*"frog gigging" where frogs are shot with bee bee guns

*animals tied on a rope to a vehicle and drug around

All I'm saying is that it's no surprise that we've "hatched" so many serial killers- I think Ohio is actually leading in the stats. I moved to the country after growing up in the city at age 11, "the country" isn't the pastoral paradise people like to believe it is.

 

[DC_DEEP]

You know, DC, you have a point.. but this paragraph is unfair. Parents do have a responsibility to repremand their children, and raise them to the best of their abilities. However, you can beat the shit out of a kid, and they will turn psycho. At the same time, you can love them unconditionally, and support them, and they STILL turn out psycho.

I agree, jeff, you will have a few rotten ones regardless of what you do. I'm just saying that the kids who are truly pathological are masked by the ones who have been badly parented. If parents actually did the parenting, instead of expecting television and public school to do it (to their own standards, no less) then the problem would still exist, it would just be much much less pervasive.

Despite what some have said about kids and teens these days NOT having it harder than previous generations...I think they are wrong. Children are basically taught to be more aggressive at a younger age...but not because of violent video games or anything, rather something benign and seemingly harmless: The world today expects a GREAT DEAL more from children as they grow up because the world is far more competative, earlier in life than it was even 10-15 years ago.

Yes, but you can't deny that it is still the parents' responsibility to teach children HOW to be competitive WITHOUT just simply gunning down the competition.

<...>I grew up playing violent video games and watching rated-R movies (mmm, First-person shooters and fighting games...yum), which my parents NEVER had a problem with. Why? Because they also took the time to interact with me as a human being...to make me wonder about PEOPLE, and what people felt and thought and believed...they made me develop at least some small sense of empathy, of humanism. It is because of this (my faith was helpful in this as well), that I feel that I and many other young people are able to tell the difference between blowing an alien's head off online and blowing someone's head off in real life.

Online, that was just pixels (very well lit, animated and modeled pixels )...whereas in REAL life...that would be someones brother, or uncle, or dad.

When more children see the world around them as people and objects of importance to other people instead of nameless faceless obstacles, I feel that there will be very little wrong with our kids...

I grew up before the advent of video games, but I did grow up watching some pretty questionable movies. The difference is, my parents actually did do some parenting. I knew that these were not real life. I knew that I was accountable for my actions. I knew that if I did things wrong, there would be consequences. I really hope that if you have children now or in the future, you won't use any of the excuses to make the parenting job easier. The occasional truly psycho kid aside, parents (in general) makes excuses for their children's misbehavior, and blame everyone except their children and themselves. Your kid's fat? Sue McDonalds. Your kid started smoking? Sue the tobacco companies. Your teen son beats and rapes a classmate? Sue the school for not teaching him and supervising him better. Your son takes a semi-automatic weapon into school assembly and sprays 300 rounds into the other students? It's Hollywood's fault.

Sorry, I just can't accept the "everyone's fault but my own" mindset.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Kotchanski, you always make excellent points.

My mom did give us the occasional swat on the butt, but only when we deserved it, always with an explanation of why (not just why we got a spanking, but why we were in the wrong) and never excessive. Haha, "the talk" was always worse, much worse, than the spanking. The last I can remember of that was around age 6 or so; once we were old enough to start developing some reasoning skills, that's how she managed. We were also given such responsibilities as were age-appropriate. And we were allowed more freedom and privilege as we demonstrated that we could handle it.

I still remember the talk I had with mom when I started high school. She told me, "I have tried my best to teach you right from wrong, and you seem to have learned well. From now on, I won't set a curfew for you. But remember this: if you do things that you know are wrong, and you get caught, you are responsible. Do not ever call me from jail to bail you out. I will not." And the thing is, she meant it, and I knew she did. That was enough to keep me on the right path.

 

[Expando1]

The answer to rearing responsible, compassionate, successful kids is clear...we keep asking the quesion because we want to hear differently; we want affirmation of an easier way, affirmation that improved effort is not necessary or required.

When I was a boy my dad would work two jobs, get home at 11pm, then wake me up to review my homework with me subject by subject. I'd be back in bed by 1am and he'd awaken at 5am to start his first job. The man did that for years, never complained, never grumbled. Not bad for a welder at day and a janitor at night...that's a father, that's a man.

 

[JustAsking]

There's better things to do with your time then sitting around and complaining while looking for newspaper articles about how terrible the president is. Go do some volunteer work. Read to people at an old folks home. Pick up trash. If you want change to happen then get off your ass and start. Grassroots.

I agree with everything you said. Actually, I spend about 20% of my time doing volunteer work for hunger and the homeless and about 15% of my income goes to such causes around the world. I read newspapers, books, magazines and the Internet to find out where the need is. I vote, I write letters to the newspaper, and I write and make phone calls to state and federal legislators, and I donate resources in my struggling new startup business to community volunteer organizations. During election time I donate money and time to the political party of my choice and drive people to the polls who need transportation.

I don't go looking for newspaper articles about how terrible the president is. They come to me through my association with activist and advocacy organizations I belong to that have this strange idea that misery, hunger, suffering, and preventable death in large numbers is probably not a good thing (for example). The fact that our president is responsible for some of that through his foriegn and domestic policies is not the main point of those articles, but it seems to come up a lot when the topic is the welfare of people around the world.

But like you, I feel a need to talk about this stuff whenever I can in order to encourage others to get involved, too. So I support everything you are doing and saying about that and I admire the fact that you are articulate and persuasive. I also share with you a love for our country and its system of government. But as you rightfully pointed out, our system is only as good as the quality of the participation of its citizens. So I equate love for country with activism. As such, I believe dissent is the highest form of patriotism as did our founding fathers.

What I don't subscribe to is the age old Bircher bumper sticker that says, "My Country Right or Wrong.". My bumper sticker says, "My Country Right or Else."