What the hell is wrong with kids?

JustAsking

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Posts
3,217
Media
0
Likes
33
Points
268
Location
Ohio
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
But back to the topic at hand. I find good points in what everyone is saying, including BC. What I haven't seen talked about is something that I have always considered important in raising children.

There is an old African saying that says, "It takes a village to raise a child." I really think that we have driven the notion of "village" out of our daily lives, regardless of whether we live in a small town or a city. Out here in rural Ohio, you would expect this not to be true. But I think the isolation and lack of feeling a part of a community is now at its worse in rural areas.

I am not necessarily pining for the good old days of town baseball teams and ice cream socials, except for that aspect of it that gave a townsperson and his children a sense of belonging and identity.

These days, we have arranged our lives so that our households are mostly self-sufficient. We socialize in our community only a few times per month. Our children's lives are programmed to the limit with "activities" that are mostly geared around their improvement. If kids don't have driver's licenses, they need to wait for their parents to take them somewhere, since destinations in the country are so far apart. Its no surprise that the social lives of kids is mostly in cyberspace now. MySpace has taken the place of the local hangout. Perhaps that is not completely bad, since it clearly fills a social need. But the fact that it is doing so at the great expense of real social interaction is what worries me.

There is a deep sense of isolation in our communities. I believe that the idea of living in the suburbs has become a social failure. It would be no surprise to me to find that more kids with social pathologies come from rural areas than from urban areas. (I guess I am not counting the inner city, which is a subject all its own.)
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Expando1 said:
The answer to rearing responsible, compassionate, successful kids is clear...we keep asking the quesion because we want to hear differently; we want affirmation of an easier way, affirmation that improved effort is not necessary or required.

When I was a boy my dad would work two jobs, get home at 11pm, then wake me up to review my homework with me subject by subject. I'd be back in bed by 1am and he'd awaken at 5am to start his first job. The man did that for years, never complained, never grumbled. Not bad for a welder at day and a janitor at night...that's a father, that's a man.
You are right, that is pretty much the definition of "a real man." If it had been a woman (as it was in my mom's case) it would be the definition of "a real woman."

Good parenting IS hard work, it's the hardest. Regardless of the excuse, shirking that responsibility once you DO have children should be one of the highest crimes. And simply giving your child every material thing they need or want has nothing to do with good parenting. It's really sad that so many seem to think that if they spend lots of money on their children, that makes up for a lack of spending time with them and teaching them.
 

D_Humper E Bogart

Experimental Member
Joined
May 10, 2004
Posts
2,172
Media
0
Likes
4
Points
258
Heck, I'm still a kid at 24! But seriously, times have not changed as much as you think. I was not perfect, I had a 'sour tongue' which got me into trouble and I carried weapons into school. Why? Because the bullying was that bad...

Well whaddya know, some things never change. Difference being I was strong enough to want to take out my enemies, rather than kill myself, and sadly, not many people are that arrogant.

Violence and strength are rewarded and praised in our society. Why does everyone want to join the army, but only 'queers' become paramedics? When people foul each other in football, the one calling the foul is penalised more stronlg than the culprit, our politicians and celebrities are ruthless and cruel. Our employers use the threat of unemployment and no salary to keep people in rubbish jobs. Heck, I'm intimidated by how "agressive" even business people dress, I feel like a hippy walking to work!

It just all trickles down.
 

DaveyR

Retired Moderator
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Posts
5,422
Media
0
Likes
30
Points
258
Location
Northumberland
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
ORCABOMBER said:
Violence and strength are rewarded and praised in our society. Why does everyone want to join the army, but only 'queers' become paramedics? When people foul each other in football, the one calling the foul is penalised more stronlg than the culprit, our politicians and celebrities are ruthless and cruel. Our employers use the threat of unemployment and no salary to keep people in rubbish jobs. Heck, I'm intimidated by how "agressive" even business people dress, I feel like a hippy walking to work!

It just all trickles down.

Excellent post there Orca.

Anyone knows when you train a dog, or any other animal for that matter, you reward the behaviour you want to encourage . So why when it comes to humans do we do the exact opposite of that?

Examples in the UK would include unmarried teenage Mothers been given free housing, furniture numerous benefits etc etc. Young offenders being taken on adventure holidays. I could write pages and pages of examples but I'm sure you can see exactly what I am getting at.

Another factor I think are those parents who abdicate from their children's discipline and education. They seem to think that responsibility for these lie entirely with the school.

What message does rewarding completely inappropriate behaviour send?
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
And, unfortunately, everyone tries to use every excuse they can to avoid doing what needs to be done: give children the tools they need to fix the situation. No, I'm not talking about giving the kids guns and brass knuckles to send them off to preschool. The down side is that even one parent too stupid and lazy to do the right thing puts a bully into the school, and that undermines the hard work the rest have done. If orcabomber had to carry weapons to school because of Tommy The Bully, and Jack had to take weapons because of orca, and Suzie had to carry a weapons because of Jack... well, you see where this is going. Parents and teachers and municipalities all need to have a "zero tolerance for violence" policy. I'm not saying kids need to be submissive doormats, but they do need to be taught that bullying and being violent is just not acceptable.

I have never started a physical fight, but I have ended quite a few.
 

Pirate Wench

Experimental Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Posts
697
Media
0
Likes
19
Points
163
Location
Texas
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
I've always thought that when anyone abused one or more animals......part of their punishment should be, short of killing them, subjecting them to the same abuse they did to the animal(s).

And it's already known that most, if not all, serial killers when they were children or adolescents... abused animals.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Pirate Wench said:
I've always thought that when anyone abused one or more animals......part of their punishment should be, short of killing them, subjecting them to the same abuse they did to the animal(s).

And it's already known that most, if not all, serial killers when they were children or adolescents... abused animals.
People think I'm joking when I mention things like this, but I'm actually quite serious.

Wanna tie a cat or dog or horse or nigger to your bumper and drive a couple of miles? I'll be more than happy to return the favor.

When I was in high school, a guy I knew did some pretty horrible things to a cat, and I found out about it. He had put the cat in a bag, banged it around for a while until it was dazed, then burned it. I went to a local dry cleaner and got a large paper garment bag, found the guy, tackled him, got him in the bag... I couldn't actually swing the bag around, so I kicked it pretty thoroughly. I didn't plan to douse him with gasoline and fire him up, but I told him I was going to. Nothing like tasting your own medicine. Really. If you do evil things, there very well may be consequences.

Now, Madame Zora, where are those boys with the firecrackers and bottle rockets, I have a few things I want to discuss with them.
 

madame_zora

Sexy Member
Joined
May 5, 2004
Posts
9,608
Media
0
Likes
51
Points
258
Location
Ohio
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
DC_DEEP said:
And, unfortunately, everyone tries to use every excuse they can to avoid doing what needs to be done: give children the tools they need to fix the situation. No, I'm not talking about giving the kids guns and brass knuckles to send them off to preschool. The down side is that even one parent too stupid and lazy to do the right thing puts a bully into the school, and that undermines the hard work the rest have done. If orcabomber had to carry weapons to school because of Tommy The Bully, and Jack had to take weapons because of orca, and Suzie had to carry a weapons because of Jack... well, you see where this is going. Parents and teachers and municipalities all need to have a "zero tolerance for violence" policy. I'm not saying kids need to be submissive doormats, but they do need to be taught that bullying and being violent is just not acceptable.

I have never started a physical fight, but I have ended quite a few.

The problem with "zero tolerance" is that most of them employ zero intelligence. Yes, in a perfect world, self defense would not be an issue for school children to address- since we know we don't live in a perfect world, how do you then separate those who are trying to just defend themselves from those who are out to do harm? We can't honestly expect our children to enter a war zone without any means to protect themselves. The systems have let them down, and punishing the weak that we have abandoned is just cowardly. Yes, these principals and other assorted fucktards like to puff themselves up by bragging about all the weapons they've confiscated off their students, but why aren't we asking them why so many kids feel the need to be armed at school? This is happening in "good schools" too folks, not just in the 'hood.

It isn't just a few parents not doing their jobs anymore- it's most of them. We have a large percentage of volatile teens who don't have good supervision or support at home being thrust on the education system which no longer has the active PTAs that they had back in my day (god, I'm old).
I don't think the education system has adapted to the role that it now plays by default. I'm certainly not saying it's right or fair, I'm saying it's REALITY.
As I've said all along, I'd be a lot more interested in hearing from pro-lifers if someone gave a shit about the little fuckers once they're here- sadly, many if not most kids do not have supportive parents, and the schools are feeling the burden.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Madame, I don't deny that localities who have trumpeted their "zero-tolerance" policies, they really don't have a clue how to design or implement them. But I stand by my statement, and emphasize that zero-tolerance should (note that I say should, not does) begin at home, with the parents. It has to be taught from the time they start toddling, not when they reach high school.
 

Lex

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Posts
8,253
Media
0
Likes
118
Points
268
Location
In Your Darkest Thoughts and Dreams
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
I was told as a first time parent that my job was to "beat (not physically) the toddler" out of my kids before they reached school-age. When you see the tantrums of adults in stores and public, the tantrums of their children surprise you less, although they still disappoint.

Bad parenting should be a fucking crime.

As a former teacher, the disrespect that children are taught to give to adults wears on you--big time. I had a student curse a teacher. I heard him. He called her all kinds of fucking bithces and more. He was suspended. When he and his mom had the parent-principal-teacher conference, I was asked to attend as a third party witness. We all told our stories.

Mom looks at her son and asked, "Well, did you do it? Did you say that?"

Son says, "No."

Mom says, "Well, then you don't have to apologize then."

I was sitting there like WHAT THE FUCK?!?! Never in my years of school waws MY world ever taken as fact over some respecting adult (be it neighbor or teacher). When an adult caught me doing something, they punished me, told my parents and then I got punished AGAIN, for having to have been spoken to by someone OTHER than them.

And we wonder why shit is so fucked it. It all begins at home.
 

madame_zora

Sexy Member
Joined
May 5, 2004
Posts
9,608
Media
0
Likes
51
Points
258
Location
Ohio
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
DC_DEEP said:
Madame, I don't deny that localities who have trumpeted their "zero-tolerance" policies, they really don't have a clue how to design or implement them. But I stand by my statement, and emphasize that zero-tolerance should (note that I say should, not does) begin at home, with the parents. It has to be taught from the time they start toddling, not when they reach high school.

Oh, we definitely agree with how it should be, I'm just saying that some acknowledgement needs to be paid to how it IS. Zero tolerance policies take any decision-making out of the hands of teachers or administrators who are more intimately involved in the situations, and just applys flat rules to multi-faceted situations. When a kid writes a note that says "I want to pop his head like a zit", an adminsitrator should have the option of deciding if that's sarcasm or a serious threat. As it stands, they do not, and that's a problem.

Much like the police who are now almost solely interested in handing out petty tickets instead of fighting crime, we pay attention to minutia and avoid anything serious- then measure success based on number of tickets handed out instead of quality of life being improved.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
madame_zora said:
Much like the police who are now almost solely interested in handing out petty tickets instead of fighting crime, we pay attention to minutia and avoid anything serious- then measure success based on number of tickets handed out instead of quality of life being improved.
Ok, I have a better idea for fixing the problem. We will have a coup, install me as Supreme Ruler of the Universe As We Know It. I'll appoint you as Diva-Minister of Hedonistic Practices. We will simply exterminate the little buggers who try to disrupt the order of things.

I already PM'd NIC160IQ and offered him the position of Minister of the Social Order.
 

DaveyR

Retired Moderator
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Posts
5,422
Media
0
Likes
30
Points
258
Location
Northumberland
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
DC_DEEP said:
Ok, I have a better idea for fixing the problem. We will have a coup, install me as Supreme Ruler of the Universe As We Know It. I'll appoint you as Diva-Minister of Hedonistic Practices. We will simply exterminate the little buggers who try to disrupt the order of things.

I already PM'd NIC160IQ and offered him the position of Minister of the Social Order.

Great idea DC but can you honestly see MZ accepting anything less than Supreme Ruler of the Universe? Also anything with Diva in the title HAS to be offered to Stronzo or Alex first.

You need to have a reshuffle of appointments I think.
 

Shelby

Experimental Member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Posts
2,129
Media
0
Likes
15
Points
258
Location
in the internet
Since it seems like this topic is swerving already, I'd like to know where people draw the line on cruelty. Obviously torturing a cute little kitty offends our sensibilities. What about killing a poisonous snake? Smooshing a spider? (I know people who put them outside instead) How about slapping a skeeter? Antibiotics? (they kill those frisky little bacteria y'know).

Growing up I thought nothing of gigging a frog. Picking up a warm dead quail I shot felt strangely bad though.

Just wondering where the peta types stop considering life forms to be 'animals'.

p.s. - back on topic... as smug as I already am you don't even want to get me started on my kids.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Daverock said:
Great idea DC but can you honestly see MZ accepting anything less than Supreme Ruler of the Universe? Also anything with Diva in the title HAS to be offered to Stronzo or Alex first.

You need to have a reshuffle of appointments I think.
Sweetie, my Imperial Universe is NOT a democracy. I do know Madame Cunt-Breathing Dragon, and I think that once I tell her what her job description is, she will have no problem at all with her title or her duties.

Diva has nothing to do with it. Where can you imagine alex8 in my little empire, besides Minister of (Naughty) Information? I'm not sure yet what role is perfect for Stronzo. Give me time. Being Supreme Ruler of the Universe is a time-consuming monarchy.

As for you, I'm still thinking about your title, as well.
 

DaveyR

Retired Moderator
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Posts
5,422
Media
0
Likes
30
Points
258
Location
Northumberland
Sexuality
No Response
Gender
Male
DC_DEEP said:
Sweetie, my Imperial Universe is NOT a democracy. I do know Madame Cunt-Breathing Dragon, and I think that once I tell her what her job description is, she will have no problem at all with her title or her duties.

Diva has nothing to do with it. Where can you imagine alex8 in my little empire, besides Minister of (Naughty) Information? I'm not sure yet what role is perfect for Stronzo. Give me time. Being Supreme Ruler of the Universe is a time-consuming monarchy.

As for you, I'm still thinking about your title, as well.

How about a new thread for this DC? Could be interesting.
 

DC_DEEP

Sexy Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
8,714
Media
0
Likes
93
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
Shelby said:
Since it seems like this topic is swerving already, I'd like to know where people draw the line on cruelty. Obviously torturing a cute little kitty offends our sensibilities. What about killing a poisonous snake? Smooshing a spider? (I know people who put them outside instead) How about slapping a skeeter? Antibiotics? (they kill those frisky little bacteria y'know).

Growing up I thought nothing of gigging a frog. Picking up a warm dead quail I shot felt strangely bad though.

Just wondering where the peta types stop considering life forms to be 'animals'.

p.s. - back on topic... as smug as I already am you don't even want to get me started on my kids.
C'mon, Shelby, you already know the answer to this question. Did you do that to a frog or quail just to torture them and revel in their pain and terror? Do you think that girl did what she did to the cat because she wanted to have him for dinner?

I ordinarily do not kill poisonous snakes (if I found one inside my house, yes, I would). Spiders out-of-doors I leave alone. But then again I don't have some irrational fear of snakes or spiders.

I have never ever been in a "him-or-me" situation with a cat. I have been in a "them-or-me" situation with bacteria.

I'm not one of those PETA types, but neither do I condone torturing any animal - including humans, and down to the lowliest spider - for the sheer sport of the torture.
 

Shelby

Experimental Member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Posts
2,129
Media
0
Likes
15
Points
258
Location
in the internet
Thanks DC and Kot. Your responses are obviously true and my question was ill formed.

I've always eaten what I killed. For some irrational reason though I never felt near the remorse or pity when pulling a not quite dead bullfrog off the gig and throwing him in the sack as I did when I had to break the neck of a still quivering bobwhite. I used to secretly curse the dogs for being so well trained and having such soft mouths.

Is it because the birds were warm and the frogs were cold? Pretty vs ugly? Helpless vs unpredictable? (a mature bull has strong as a motherfucker slipperyass legs and if you don't hold on tight he's gonna kick loose and embarrass your ass in front of the grownups)

I don't have any idea.

ps - sorry to hijack. that shit all just came out and keying is such a struggle for me I decided to go ahead and post rather than cancel.

I'll back out now

carry on
 

Hatched69

Cherished Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Posts
840
Media
8
Likes
458
Points
283
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Shelby said:
Since it seems like this topic is swerving already, I'd like to know where people draw the line on cruelty. Obviously torturing a cute little kitty offends our sensibilities. What about killing a poisonous snake? Smooshing a spider? (I know people who put them outside instead) How about slapping a skeeter? Antibiotics? (they kill those frisky little bacteria y'know). edited by hatched69

Everything on this planet has it's place. It's by happenstance that animals, insects and humans cross paths. While I would not invite or allow a pit viper in my house, I would likely call animal control to have the creature returned to its natural habitat. Likewise for most spiders. I don't keep an unclean house, but here in the woods, I feel I'm invading their territory, therefore I allow a certain amount of webs to exist, mostly for mosquito control, etc. (letting nature take its course...) I do NOT condone animal cruelty, whcih is clearly the case here! This is NOT nature taking its course, the animal did nothing wrong, yet this sadistic little shit sees fit to release her vile personality on a baby!! Yes, I said baby. To the kitten's mother, she/he is a baby. How would a human react if their child were being tortured? We, as humans, self-proclaimed at the top of the food chain, are supposed to know better and teach our children accordingly. Yet, this senseless shit happens.... It's humanity's fault, not the cat's.