What the hell is wrong with kids?

jfrsndvs

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DC, it sounds like you had a decent upbringing, my folks were strict with us to a point (which was a damn good thing), there was times that we had to pick a switch (no fun at all), but the worst punishment for us in the summer was picking cotton by hand for 1 hour, now that was pure hell, but not as bad as having to find the right switch.

I can still hear my folks and grand parents say, "that there was nothing wrong with a good ole fashioned switchin on the butt, that is way the Good Lord put that extra paddin there" when we did get a switchin, it was never more than 3 swats, and it was always on the butt, and that was always a last resort.

back then, when we were watching tv (only one tv in the house and that was the family set), when the clock hit 9:00 my dad would look at the clock and look at us, and we knew it was bed time and we best get our butts in action, lol.

to this day, I think that the worst punishment for us kids was when my mom would make us kids watch Little House On The Prarie, damn, that was nothing but pure plain and simple TORCHURE, LOL.

parents these days are hung up on having material things for themselves and kids, that they have to both work full time jobs, so they don't have the time to spend with the kids, teach the kids, and correct the kids when they do wrong, help them when they have a problem with school. sad very sad.

I get so tired of hearing that raising a kid today is different than it was back then, the basics have never changed no matter what decade we are in, the kids need the basics that only a real parent can give them, attention, guidence, understanding, correction, praise, protection, and the one thing that only a mother and father can really give them, and that is that special hug when they really need it.





DC_DEEP said:
Kotchanski, you always make excellent points.

My mom did give us the occasional swat on the butt, but only when we deserved it, always with an explanation of why (not just why we got a spanking, but why we were in the wrong) and never excessive. Haha, "the talk" was always worse, much worse, than the spanking. The last I can remember of that was around age 6 or so; once we were old enough to start developing some reasoning skills, that's how she managed. We were also given such responsibilities as were age-appropriate. And we were allowed more freedom and privilege as we demonstrated that we could handle it.

I still remember the talk I had with mom when I started high school. She told me, "I have tried my best to teach you right from wrong, and you seem to have learned well. From now on, I won't set a curfew for you. But remember this: if you do things that you know are wrong, and you get caught, you are responsible. Do not ever call me from jail to bail you out. I will not." And the thing is, she meant it, and I knew she did. That was enough to keep me on the right path.
 

DC_DEEP

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I also get weary of the "it's harder to be a kid now" whine. It isn't. I grant that it is different for an urban child now than it was for a rural child 50 years ago. I've never picked cotton, but I have baled hay, and I've churned butter, and I've worked in the fields. I was lucky, I only had to do that kind of hard work when I was a kid visiting my grandparents, but I was still expected to pull my weight.

Back then, the expectation was that you worked hard and contributed to the family. Now the expectation is that you don't kill classmates and you stay out of jail. How god-damned hard is that? Don't give me the "peer pressure to do drugs, peer pressure to join a gang" bullshit. There was peer pressure when I was growing up; I just thought that the other kids who were slaves to peer pressure were weak and simple-minded. Yes, even the "popular ones."

P. S. Don't laugh, for an 8-year-old, churning butter is an exquisitely painful chore. If you've never done it, you have no clue. If you have, you understand.
 

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The answer to this whole thread: BAD/LAZY-ASS PARENTS who don't take the time to teach right from wrong, bad from good, etc.
It's a common scene to see kids parked in front of a TV for hours playing violent video games (what other type do you ever see a commercial for?), because the parents see it as "keeping the kid occupied so I don't have to deal with them". Wow. Great. Why the hell did you see fit to spawn in the first place if you didn't want to accept the responsibility? Then the kids act out in a violent manner, and the parents ask "where did you learn to do that?" Well, DUH!!!
Then there's the mobile video evolution. Vans/trucks with DVD players, etc. Back when I was young my parents used to play games, like "1st one to count 10 red cars gets to listen to their radio station for 10 minutes", etc. Now it seems impossible to transport a child without having to entertain them. I could cite many more examples. But the question remains, how far will society allow interaction between child and parent to degrade? When will parents realize it's THEIR responsibility to raise a child, not the rest of society's?
 

madame_zora

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jfrsndvs said:
parents these days are hung up on having material things for themselves and kids, that they have to both work full time jobs, so they don't have the time to spend with the kids, teach the kids, and correct the kids when they do wrong, help them when they have a problem with school. sad very sad.

I get so tired of hearing that raising a kid today is different than it was back then, the basics have never changed no matter what decade we are in, the kids need the basics that only a real parent can give them, attention, guidence, understanding, correction, praise, protection, and the one thing that only a mother and father can really give them, and that is that special hug when they really need it.

So much good stuff to respond to here, but the fault rests first with the parents, and I say that as a parent of a 21 year old. We got greedy for "things" and thought we could show our love that way to our kids, those of us that could. We didn't recognise or take seriously the disconnect our children were feeling, nor did we notice the widening social gap. We left our children unattended while we worked too long and squandered too much. Some of us learned painful lessons, some of us have not learned yet.

Raising a kid today isn't all that different. Each generation has it's own specific issues, but we all have them. My generation allowed our kids to be too dependant, while we waxed nostalgic about a "simpler time" that never really was. Now we complain that our children aren't responsible- well when did we ever let them learn life's lessons that teach one to be responsible?
We were a two faced generation, on one hand laying down rules that were too naive (Just Say "No":rolleyes: ) and then being absent from the home too much to know what was really going on. Yeah, we're all so shocked when our kids end up using drugs or getting pregnant.

And carrying guns to school. Most of these kids get their first guns from home. I'm not against gun ownership, but where's parental responsibility?
If you have kids in the house, it's your responsibility to make sure they don't have access to your weapons- they should be locked in a safe place.
Naw, it was just too easy for us to keep our heads in the sand- that way we could just blame the media for our own lack of parenting.
 

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Hatched69 said:
When will parents realize it's THEIR responsibility to raise a child, not the rest of society's?

Haha, I love hearing "It takes a village to raise a child" because while I understand the intended sentiment, I think too often parents forget that the village begins with them. It's now en vogue to pawn your kids off on the village instead of letting them help in the periphery.
 

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madame_zora said:
I think too often parents forget that the village begins with them. It's now en vogue to pawn your kids off on the village instead of letting them help in the periphery.

So sad this forum isn't seen in a more public light. There's a lot of folks out there that desperately need to read this.
***Points towards neighbors house and hellions***
 

Nelly Gay

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shad24 said:
Teen Accused Of Abusing Cat, Posting Video On Web


POSTED: 12:55 am EDT April 22, 2006

INDIANAPOLIS -- A 14-year-old Franklin Township Middle School student was arrested Friday on allegations she abused her family's cat and posted a video of the incident on the Internet.
Authorities said the video -- which the girl allegedly posted on MySpace.com -- shows that most of the cat was wrapped in cellophane, immobilizing the animal. The cat's head was not wrapped.
The video shows someone nudging or kicking the wrapped cat. Eventually, the cat was able to get its front legs free.

You might care to know that many serial killers start their distinguished "careers" torturing the family pets.
Witness, Ed Kemper, Ian Brady, Jeffrey Dahmer, Arthur Shawcross to name but a few who honed their skills on the families' cats before hunting humans !
Just a thought ....
 

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Kotchanski said:
Oh the generalisations keep flowing

So several serial killers started out on pets, I get it, but several others didn't. Making the comparison with regards to the first post, is as silly as saying all children who abuse animals are likely to become serial killers.

The simple fact is, that they all do these things for different reasons, and they lead to different places. There are many cases well documented of rapists who had erection problems and that is claimed to be the reason they turned to what they did. But if someone were to post asking for advice on erection problems, I wouldn't assume that he would one day become a rapist, I wouldn't even consider thinking it. Yes the 2 things are quite different, I know, but it all boils down to the same thing in the end, people assuming based on generalisations and rather than deal with why the child is doing it, bury the issue in other matters.

I'll assume you know what a correlation is? I don't think a single poster here has said that all kids who torture animals grow up to be serial killers, so to whom are you addressing your comments?

The ability to inflict pain and discomfort on an animal without feeling compassion for that animal has been well documented as an early tell-tale sign of deeper emotional trauma. It's the emotional disconnect that is the problem- while not all will become murderers, many will become bullies because they have learned to enjoy the feeling of dominating someone weaker.

As far as erection problems, you bet your sweet ass everyone pays for that, with men who don't learn to deal with their frustration on their own. The difference is, most men will at least be grown by the time they encounter this and have an adult's ability to cope with adversity, or seek treatment. Children who have issues with cruelty to animals are not yet themselves mature, so they develop patterns of behavior early on that don't get addressed unless either THEY feel a need to do so, or a parent or other interested party stops and asks them what's going on- then stays with them throughout the crisis resolution. However, this often results from having parents who are emotionally unavailable, so the behaviors go unchecked.

I don't think anyone's trying to condemn as much as we are trying to understand what goes wrong in these cases.
 
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SpeedoGuy said:
What's wrong with kids? A better question is "What's wrong with parents, school sports, and judges?"

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/19/deerdecoy.crash.ap/index.html

It's stories like that that remind me of a quote from "Calvin & Hobbes."

"Sometimes I think the surest sign of intelligent life on other planets is that none of it has tried to contact us."

I can feel my cappillaries bursting whenever I read/hear about worthless idiot judges like this one, who should be impeached immediately.
 

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madame_zora said:
haha, I know that Hatched69, but I DID live in Indiana for a while as a teen and I've lived in the midwest all of my life- please tell me that kids in the country don't torture animals. I'm not saying all of them, I'm just saying it's hardly rare. Some of the shit I saw in real life was far more horrific than a saran-wrapped cat. Highlights:

*cats having bottle rockets stuck up the ass

*cats stuffed into suitcases and thrown into a lake

*"frog gigging" where frogs are shot with bee bee guns

*animals tied on a rope to a vehicle and drug around

All I'm saying is that it's no surprise that we've "hatched" so many serial killers- I think Ohio is actually leading in the stats. I moved to the country after growing up in the city at age 11, "the country" isn't the pastoral paradise people like to believe it is.

I hear ya. There's enough animal torture around to put many thousand more idiots behind bars, along with the serial killers borne from such atrocities. If I were to ever witness such wrongdoing, believe me when I say the human(s) involved would be meeting the business end of my Winchester in a short and abrupt manner, and I'd be more than willing to pay the price for those actions.

BTW, you'd NEVER guess where I came up with my user name.....
 

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bignfloppy said:
I can feel my cappillaries bursting whenever I read/hear about worthless idiot judges like this one, who should be impeached immediately.

Agreed. I'm sure the injured will heal faster knowing that the guilty are gaining character and rehabilitation by continuing to participate in high school sports.
 

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People in general have violent tendencies, as do all animals. As a child, I burned ants with a magnifying glass, and I didn't really realize that it was cruel, but now I do. Most children grow to learn better outlets to relieve themselves of violent urges. The failure of a child to learn that is the responsibility of their parents, peers, etc. When children grow up, and are aware of their own actions, they need to take responsibility for what they do. I think that we as a society, are getting too lenient with children as far as teaching them to be responsible for their actions. I also think that children now are under more and more pressure to perform, which can cause them to be violent. That's just my theory anyway.
 

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I also heard about that deer decoy ruling today. Frankly, it just pissed me off. Giving kids preferential treatment after committing a crime just because they were on the football team is a slippery slope that is likely going to be a precedent in future court cases of this nature. Those kids need to learn that if you endanger somebody's life intentionally, then you need to pay the consequences. They should have been sent to jail for a good year or so.
 

Nelly Gay

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Kotchanski said:
I clearly didn't make my post clear, sorry for that. What Im trying to say is that comments about how serial killers once tortured animals (in some not all cases) have no real place in this thread. It is a post about ONE child who clearly has some issues, yet the post is about KIDS (plural) and the posters were, rather than being constructive, drawing on a view cases to make comparisons between this child, and the acts of children who grew into serial killers. We actually have the same opinion, we just word things differently, due to the simple fact that I didn't give my opinion on this case, I gave my opinion on people who use such extreme general comments.

Btw, as you seem to not understand what is meant by "general comment" its when people say something, without taking into account, and refering to that this opinion, fact, outlook isn't always the case.

Inflicting pain on animals, other people, what ever you can as a child, is a sign that something is missing, or something else is going on, its either a way of dealing with whats happening in your life or a way of getting the attention your missing. Its something that needs looking at, its not something that needs comments about serial killers thrown at it.

(And as for the erection comments, its a subject im more than a little familiar with, as is the correlation between that and rapists, it was something that was drawn upon when my husbands own erection problems failed to be overcome with treatments. When treatment failed, they started to look at the possibility of it being a mental issue rather than a physical, and it was a rather traumatic experience when the therapist started to suggest he may want to stay away from women until he has resolved the issue, not quite how it was worded, but im sure you see my point)

So yes, I find the comments made misplaced generalisations, the kind used to generate fear rather than compassion and understanding (which is whats needed if people are to help the child in question)

Not much compassion for the tortured animals or prostitutes, gay men or the elderly that are target groups for serial killers then ?
Perhaps we should understand why John Wayne Gacy killer 35 young men or Gary Ridgeway murdered 50+ teenaged hookers or Ted Bundy ....
They had a bad childhood and their mother drank and ....
 

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Kotchanski said:
I clearly didn't make my post clear, sorry for that. What Im trying to say is that comments about how serial killers once tortured animals (in some not all cases) have no real place in this thread. It is a post about ONE child who clearly has some issues, yet the post is about KIDS (plural) and the posters were, rather than being constructive, drawing on a view cases to make comparisons between this child, and the acts of children who grew into serial killers. We actually have the same opinion, we just word things differently, due to the simple fact that I didn't give my opinion on this case, I gave my opinion on people who use such extreme general comments.

Btw, as you seem to not understand what is meant by "general comment" its when people say something, without taking into account, and refering to that this opinion, fact, outlook isn't always the case.

Inflicting pain on animals, other people, what ever you can as a child, is a sign that something is missing, or something else is going on, its either a way of dealing with whats happening in your life or a way of getting the attention your missing. Its something that needs looking at, its not something that needs comments about serial killers thrown at it.

(And as for the erection comments, its a subject im more than a little familiar with, as is the correlation between that and rapists, it was something that was drawn upon when my husbands own erection problems failed to be overcome with treatments. When treatment failed, they started to look at the possibility of it being a mental issue rather than a physical, and it was a rather traumatic experience when the therapist started to suggest he may want to stay away from women until he has resolved the issue, not quite how it was worded, but im sure you see my point)

So yes, I find the comments made misplaced generalisations, the kind used to generate fear rather than compassion and understanding (which is whats needed if people are to help the child in question)

Kotchanski, we are just coming from different placed based on different experiences- we are not far off, and I have truly been enjoying your posts in Women's Issues.

People love to find correlations, and that is not a bad thing, although it is sometimes over-reaching. Still, one has to have some general predictors of behavior in order to find ways to prevent it or at least deal with it. Taking each case individually with a "tabula rasa" view of everything that has come before would be laborious and an insane waste of energy. We learn through experience, and that must necessarily be so. If we, as a culture, experience a correlation that is strong enough to acknowledge, yet fail to acknowledge it, it may protect the feelings of individuals, but it would surely endanger the safety of potential victims needlessly (not to mention render social science useless).

Frankly, I WANT to know if the neighbor kid bashes in frog's heads with a rock. I don't care to decipher if every violent kid is "maladjusted" or just an asshole- I just want to stay out of his way. If his parents love him, they can deal with it ir not deal with it as they see fit. There are certain things I know about that kind of behavior and correlations it has to future misdeeds, and that's not knowledge I am willing to forego just to make him feel better about himself. Do I automatically think he'll hurt me? NO! He's a kid, chances are I could whip his ass! Haha, I DO think he has a higher chance of turning out violent than a child who doesn't do things like that, or who outgrows it earlier.

I am sorry to hear about your husband's issues and the way he has been made to feel, I went through that as well. Are you honestly saying that he ISN'T angry about it? Mine sure as hell was. No, he wouldn't hurt or rape anyone, but yeah- he was angry, and he decided not to pursue anything further, once the physical causes were eliminated. I AM NOT commenting on your relationship, clearly you love him quite a lot. What I will say is that I gave MY husband that same advice- to stay away from women until he figured his shit out. If there isn't a physical cause, then it IS emotional- what else could it be? HE was damaging women (me incuded) by blaming them for his problem rather than facing it himself. Now, I am sure that there are physical causes that we just don't know how to diagnose, but it's hardly proper to chastise the medical profession for not being omnipotent! Why is an emotional cause such an unpleasant possibility? Because we don't "know" much about it as a society, so it is seen as weak and shameful, whereas having an injury is not. What a shame.

I think the time is coming when people will understand how very much emotional and physical things are interrelated. If we ignore correlations, we risk not learning things that would be valuable to know. I could never support that, even when the issue is something that affects me personally.

The thread is about "kids" and not just THIS kid because it is NOT an isolated incident, not by a long shot. LOTS of "kids" do these things, and it's high time we started looking at why.
 

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Nelly Gay said:
Not much compassion for the tortured animals or prostitutes, gay men or the elderly that are target groups for serial killers then ?
Perhaps we should understand why John Wayne Gacy killer 35 young men or Gary Ridgeway murdered 50+ teenaged hookers or Ted Bundy ....
They had a bad childhood and their mother drank and ....

Yes, exactly. There DO exist reasons for these behaviors, very rarely do we find serial killers who had pleasant childhoods! We DO have serial killers whose parents have DENIED that they were bad parents though, but I'm not impressed.

If MY child was exhibiting this kind of behavior, I'd want to nip it in the bud, and find out why she was abusing animals so we could work it out. I wouldn't want to just keep calling her "my precious angel" and let her grow up to be a monster. Denial is far more powerful than we imagine.

edit- I AM an alcoholic, and I didn't get into recovery until she was seven. You bet your ass I knew our family was in a high-risk group for all kinds of maladjustments. Knowing this made me a better parent because we talked about reality, not how we wished it was.