what the hell?

D_Martin van Burden

Account Disabled
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Posts
3,229
Media
0
Likes
42
Points
258
Judging from the posts in this thread, it seems like the instinctual (or society-mandated) reaction to modification efforts is to keep doing what DMW, Dag, Tickle, 10, and others do in their posts -- freak the fuck out.

So I've got a question. Other than aesthetic concerns, what do you all find wrong with such modification efforts? Or perhaps you don't think of them as wrong as all; and if that's the case, why are we still running around screaming "Ew, ew, ew!" in reaction?
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Posts
4,941
Media
0
Likes
113
Points
268
Age
45
Location
Louisiana
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
[quote author=DeeBlackthorne link=board=health;num=1057402793;start=20#20 date=07/29/03 at 18:37:39]Or perhaps you don't think of them as wrong as all; and if that's the case, why are we still running around screaming "Ew, ew, ew!" in reaction?  [/quote]

LPSG is a forum of discussion. We all have varying opinions and points of view, and giving voice to them is an element of discussion. You have stated your opinions quite often, and have reacted to posts yourself, though you have maybe phrased them with fewer exclamation points. I did not "freak the fuck out," but rather stated my opinion in an unpedantic manner. I'm not trying to suggest that ball-pumping is intrinsically wrong, but merely stating my opinion of their results. If the dudes at that site want to pump their nuts until they're the size of watermelons, well, knock yourselves out, guys (which they can probably achieve by jumping up and down without a jock strap!).
 

D_Martin van Burden

Account Disabled
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Posts
3,229
Media
0
Likes
42
Points
258
Thank you for your response, but I'm looking for an answer to the question I posed in the first place...

Is there anything wrong with people resorting to such forms of body modification, other than the aesthetic dissatisfaction? And to lead in further, if this is at best an aesthetic issue, what's the big deal?
 
1

13788

Guest
awellhungboi: You raise a provocative question, Dee, and initially I was hesitant to post a reply because I don't have any desire to get in the middle of any problems you and DMW may (or may not) have with one another (I don't know either one of you, so I can't really say, but I do know you're both invaluable to this board). But, be that as it may, I think a serious question deserves a serious answer.

Body modification, in both its 'extreme' forms, and in more prosaic ones (a 13 year old getting her ears pierced for the first time, for instance) seems, in my opinion, to stem from the desire to identify oneself as 'the other', to claim possession of one's own body, and to extend the liminal space of the self. When seeing something like 'tiger pumping' (looks like that's what it's called) for the first time I think the viewer has one of two reactions: "Oh, my god, why would anyone do that!" or "Oh, my god, I've got to try that!" You're either a tiger pumper or you're not.

With that said, I don't think anyone who responds, "Oh, my god, why . . .?" is necessarily passing a value judgement as to its morality (although some might), but rather reacting in a human manner to the unexpected, the unusual, or to some of us, the previously unimagined.

So, I guess that boils down to, "Yeah, I think it's aesthetic."
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Posts
4,941
Media
0
Likes
113
Points
268
Age
45
Location
Louisiana
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
Of course it's a matter of aesthetics. So is the case of a woman with a two foot tall platinum blonde beehive do, caked on frosty blue eyeshadow and three pairs of false eyelashes because she thinks these things make her look 'pretty'. The unbecoming result is bound to prompt negative reactions and comments, even if only behind her back. Similarly, a man who sports soccer ball sized cojones under a little nubbin of a penis might think the effect is 'pretty'; I think many find it grotesque. I never suggested that trying to attain one's aesthetic ideal is in any way 'wrong', nor have I read a response that implies such. Unattractive? I think so. Extreme? Undoubtedly. Wrong? Not my place to judge. In my situation: free to express my opinion? You can bet your ass. And you can also bet that those dudes have heard comments before and expect to hear them again. In fact, I would venture to guess that they want the comments. Why attain such extreme body modification if no one takes notice?
 
1

13788

Guest
7x6andchg: DMW-

That last point is the best one made in this thread:

"Why? Because I want people to notice."

It doesn't get much simpler than that, does it, guv'nor?

Some body modifications (tattoos in normally clothes-covered places or PAs, for example) are not meant to be shared with everyone. Others, such as earrings, nose rings, and, one might imagine, the topic of discussion, are designed to do exactly the contrary.

As I've said before on other topics of body modification - not for me, thanks; but certainly for someone else. More power to them, I say.

7x6&C
 

D_Martin van Burden

Account Disabled
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Posts
3,229
Media
0
Likes
42
Points
258
Give me a moment, please.  I had an excellent article featuring a hell of a bunch of references on this very topic...

I wrote an anthropology paper my last semester at Transylvania entitled "freak!  Somatic and Psychopathological Politics Through Narrative in the Era of Postmodern Alienation and De-Humanity."  (Betcha can't say that three times fast.)

I'll just give you guys some highlights, beginning with some sentiments that we have covered and discussed in this thread so far.

  • Our society in particular has such a strong and relatively set of acceptable norms and desirable appearances, and judging by the consistency and the frequency with which images of beauty or acceptable practice (i.e., fit bodies, the stable if not nuclear family life, uncompromised successes, Suburbia), the trend shows no signs of slowing down[sup]1[/sup].
  • Political and institutional leaders have such a way with labelling, it's uncanny.  Once the powers that be dictate acceptable and unacceptable models of behaviors, models, images... what follows is an introduction to the art of discreditation and demonization.  Those words are strong, yes, but across history, those in power create the framework for acceptable actions and those without power either follow suit or deviate to their own paths.  Deviation from the norm's fine; just don't expect to get away with it without having your transgressions called into constant question.
  • Perhaps a poignant support point:  To those who self-identify as homosexual, whether you like it or not, you have a daily reminder of your sexuality for the rest of your life.  Whether you experience life as an out and comfortable homosexual or as someone who tries his or her damnedest to avoid the pressure; whether you care about your right to marry or have relations; whether you identify best with the guys on "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" or your beer-drinking buddies at the local tavern who keep it to themselves... society embeds the family life and the American Dream in heterosexuality, end of story.  Gay visibility is a perpetual threat to someone out there in the world; and judging by recent statistics, if anything, America's going through its own backlash.
  • Segue:  "Freaks" (in this case, people who willingly undergo extreme body modification) go through the same invisibility/threat/demonized experience, particularly felt through exclusion and ridicule.  DMW's, Dag's, 10's reactions -- perfect examples.  You guys immediately reacted with disgust; and, in DMW's case, you took my subsequent interrogation as a threat to your right to opinionate.  Either way, you, as participants of an accepted limited-modification status -- you guys might have tattooes or piercings of your own, hit the gym, diet fastidiously, whatever -- show through aesthetic exclusion that what these guys do with their dick and balls... that's just gross!

But, why do reactions sound that way?  What's so "gross" about it?  Well, it seems we hit the wall here; we can accept, personally (as we tend to speak for ourselves and not as a normalized-participant group), that we find the practices unattractive; we wouldn't scorn them for what they do to their own bodies, but still, we shudder and cringe.

Now, backtrack... that we find the practices unattractive; we wouldn't scorn them for what they do to their own bodies...

Well, it's most certainly not an issue of psychopathology, as in the labellist's self-ascertained right to call what these guys do to their bodies, "freakish."  Favazza sees such name-calling as a tradition founded in ignorance[sup]2[/sup] -- literally -- and Meyers finds the medical-septic reaction[sup]3[/sup] to practices as an effective component in delegitimizing the importance and the investment in one's "body projects."[sup]4[/sup]  In other words, these people participate in such extreme forms of modification as Longhornjok cited in his past for "many, many reasons."  My essay connected several narratives on the theme of control:  In a rapidly growing society marked by techno-industrial power and a depersonalized relationship with our work, our lives, and each other, body modification is a means by which people make sense of their own limits, enduring experiences, and revitalizating personal order with an increasingly disorderly world[sup]5[/sup].  The BMEs find solidarity and strength, personal triumph, [sup]6[/sup] in their simultaneous isolation and scrutinization by the "norms" and in sharing the depth and richness of their particular symbolic efforts.  




Works Referenced
[sup]1[/sup]  Camphausen, Rufus C.  Return of the Tribal:  A Celebration of Body Adornment.  Park Street Press:  Rochester, 1997.
[sup]2[/sup]  Favazza, Armando R.  Bodies Under Siege:  Self-Mutilation and Body Modification in Culture
and Psychiatry.
 2nd ed.  Johns Hopkins University Press:  Baltimore, 1996.
[sup]3[/sup]  Myers, James.  "Nonmainstream Body Modification:  Genital Piercing, Branding, Burning, and
Cutting."  Journal of Contemporary Ethnography.  vol. 21, issue 3.  (267+).
[sup]4[/sup]  Featherstone, Mike.  "Body Modification:  An Introduction."  Body and Society.  Sage Publications:  London, 1999.
[sup]5[/sup]  Feminism and Philosophy:  Essential Readings in Theory, Reinterpretation, and Application.  Eds. Nancy Tuana and Rosemarie Tong.  Westview Press:  Boulder, 1995.
[sup]6[/sup]  Gans, Eric.  "The Body Sacrificial."  The Body Aesthetic:  From Fine Art to Body Modification.  Ed. Tobin Siebers.  University of Michigan Press:  Ann Arbor, 2000.

(If you want to read my report to learn more about the phenomenon, just let me know.  I'll e-mail it to you.)
 
1

13788

Guest
busterj: Body modifiaction and the reason to achieve the desired results are as numerous as there are methods. For some, and I include myself , it's about taking control of ones body.
As a man living with H.I.V. and its seemingly limitless ability to control of my body, I have begun to take back some of that control by modifying aspects of my body.
From one of the most acceptible forms, weight training, to something a little less conventional, ball stretching, I feel that I have little more say as to what direction my body will take.
I agree totally that it's about aesthetics. I have to admit, my reaction at first was " I don't get it". But I kept looking and then started to see the appeal. Big dick, big balls, what's not to like!!! It's all in the way you look at it and more importantly, how the person doing the pumping sees themselves.
I have to say it's one of the great things about the internet. Being able to expose one self to different ideas, sub-cultures, sexual practices, support groups etc.
Even if you have a negitive response to something, at least now you know of it's existance. And thankfully there are forums, such as this, which will allow for a range of opinions.
 
1

13788

Guest
7x6andchg: Ok - someone is taking Gigantikok's and Mindseye's request for "sources" in some of the Et Cetera threads a little too far here... :D

That said, Dee, you have a valid point. We do it, most simply, to set ourselves apart from the social mores expected of us...anyone who modifies their body does it for that reason....even if only on a very base level.

I have two tattoos. Yes, they are in places not often seen in normal "business" attire, but, they are there. I chose them, I know what they mean, and some people ask me "Why did you EVER get those?"

My answer: "if nothing else, they can hopefully identify me by them if I am shot by strangers". :D

(Sorry - had to bring a little levity to the thread)
 
1

13788

Guest
fraggie: some people always go tooo far.... don't touch my balls.. they might explode... i only object as i'm sure it is bad for the general well being of your bits :eek:

that aside i have to say a bit of light pumping of the cock is damn nice... so just like my grandmother always said "everything in moderation" :p
 
1

13788

Guest
aj2181: All I have to say is Ouch! Some of those pics looked painful.