What would you have done?

[DaveyR]

This is an incident going back around 5 years but it has been on my mind a bit the last week wondering if I could have handled this differently.

We went to Vegas with two good pals for four days en route to LA. We chatted and agreed a policy for sharing wins. The agreement was a win less then $200 was kept by the winner anything over went into a pot to share out between the four of us.

We didn't spend a lot of time on the machines just the odd hour here and there going in and out of the hotel. Paul and I were lucky the first 2 days and won over $2000 between us which we duly shared out. Coming back into the hotel on the 3rd day we had a little go on the machines again. One of my pals won €500 but didn't collect it. He kept gambling with it and lost the lot. This happened again a short while later with $400.

I was furious and discussed it with Paul back in the room. We decided to bring the matter up later at dinner which I did. Their answer was that it wasn't a win until it was collected from the machine. Paul and I saw it very differently and said so. We agreed not to fall out about it but Paul and I said there was no more sharing and that agreement was finished.

We spent a nice time in LA with them and finished off the holiday with a short cruise to Mexico. On the last night on board we decided to have a last shot in the casino before bed. I won just under $1000 which I duly collected and kept. Our pals were really angry that I did not give them half.

What would you have done?

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I would never have made the agreement in the first place. It seems like it would be fun, a bit all for one and one for all, but it was bound to cause problems. Money brings out the ugliest sides to people, even people you think you know incredibly well can show a side of them you've never seen before if you wave cash in their faces.

 

[DaveyR]

I would never have made the agreement in the first place. It seems like it would be fun, a bit all for one and one for all, but it was bound to cause problems. Money brings out the ugliest sides to people, even people you think you know incredibly well can show a side of them you've never seen before if you wave cash in their faces.

I totaly agree and would never do it again.

Should I have just bitten the bullet and given them half of the last win for the sake of friendship?

 

[Enid]

They didn't play by the rules agreed upon, why should you? I would have kept it too.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I totaly agree and would never do it again.

Should I have just bitten the bullet and given them half of the last win for the sake of friendship?

I don't know I might have given them their half but purely to shame them, sort of saying "Oh if the money means that much to you then here have it!". I might also have thought better of it and realised that there was no reason for me to be out of pocket for people I couldn't trust to stick to their side of a bargain.

 

[DaveyR]

They didn't play by the rules agreed upon, why should you? I would have kept it too.

They argued that they did. To be fair to them we didn't discuss at what point it became a win. Collection from the machine or hitting the reels? I would not expect to have to go into that much detail on an agreement with pals but you live and learn. :wink:

What worried me more was gambling away $500 as these folks were not particularly well off.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

We decided to bring the matter up later at dinner which I did. Their answer was that it wasn't a win until it was collected from the machine. Paul and I saw it very differently and said so. We agreed not to fall out about it but Paul and I said there was no more sharing and that agreement was finished.

In some ways, I sympathize with your friends' claim that there was no win until money was collected from the machine. (Mind you, I don't doubt that a good case could be made on either side.)
However, once you and Paul said the agreement was finished, it was finished.
In a way, it seems absurd that your friends felt entitled beyond that point.

 

[Northland]

You placed more importance on won (found) money than you did on friendship. If you can't deal with how another spends money-or wastes it- then don't give it over, which was the manner in which you handled the second winnings. The friend who had 'won' the 500 still hadn't completely won it since he hadn't cashed in. It's not a win until then. Yeah it sucks that he hadn't cashed in and instead continued gambling and ultimately lost.

Similar to any gambling venture-poker, roulette, blackjack, it's not a full win until the cash is in hand. You had cash in hand the first time and shared. What if you had continued gambling at that time and lost the money? Would you have then reached in your pocket and handed the money over which you would have had, had you cashed in earlier?

As to your second set of winnings, which was over the agreement to share amount, I think you should have split it as agreed. An agreement is an agreement, and I cannot blame them for being angry.

It's only money and if you had the funds to vacation, and the money which you shared with them was winnings which were not in your pocket prior to the gambling, then why attach so much merit to it? Once you're dead, the money will be useless; but, decent relations with those you've met here might have value in the afterworld.

 

[D_Jared Padalicki]

I wouldn't agree with something like money-issues with friends. Always risky. Each have theor own money and decide what to spend.

 

[DaveyR]

In some ways, I sympathize with your friends' claim that there was no win until money was collected from the machine.
However, once you and Paul said the agreement was finished, it was finished.
In a way, it seems absurd that your friends felt entitled beyond that point.

You placed more importance on won (found) money than you did on friendship. If you can't deal with how another spends money-or wastes it- then don't give it over, which was the manner in which you handled the second winnings. The friend who had 'won' the 500 still hadn't completely won it since he hadn't cashed in. It's not a win until then. Yeah it sucks that he hadn't cashed in and instead continued gambling and ultimately lost.

Similar to any gambling venture-poker, roulette, blackjack, it's not a full win until the cash is in hand. You had cash in hand the first time and shared. What if you had continued gambling at that time and lost the money? Would you have then reached in your pocket and handed the money over which you would have had, had you cashed in earlier?

As to your second set of winnings, which was over the agreement to share amount, I think you should have split it as agreed. An agreement is an agreement, and I cannot blame them for being angry.

It's only money and if you had the funds to vacation, and the money which you shared with them was winnings which were not in your pocket prior to the gambling, then why attach so much merit to it? Once you're dead, the money will be useless; but, decent relations with those you've met here might have value in the afterworld.

Just bear in mind on the last win the agreement was finished.

To be honest being a little older and wiser if it were now I would have given them half of the last win for precisely the reason you've stated Northland. In fact if it were now there would be no agreement to share in the first place. Money breaks friendships if you let it .

 

[eddyabs]

Money is the only reason I have fallen out with friends....it really is the root of all evil. I would have done exactly the same thing Davey, out of principle. Don't hit yourself over the head about it.....you did good IMO.

 

[D_Pubert Stabbingpain]

This is an incident going back around 5 years but it has been on my mind a bit the last week wondering if I could have handled this differently.

We went to Vegas with two good pals for four days en route to LA. We chatted and agreed a policy for sharing wins. The agreement was a win less then $200 was kept by the winner anything over went into a pot to share out between the four of us.

We didn't spend a lot of time on the machines just the odd hour here and there going in and out of the hotel. Paul and I were lucky the first 2 days and won over $2000 between us which we duly shared out. Coming back into the hotel on the 3rd day we had a little go on the machines again. One of my pals won €500 but didn't collect it. He kept gambling with it and lost the lot. This happened again a short while later with $400.

I was furious and discussed it with Paul back in the room. We decided to bring the matter up later at dinner which I did. Their answer was that it wasn't a win until it was collected from the machine. Paul and I saw it very differently and said so. We agreed not to fall out about it but Paul and I said there was no more sharing and that agreement was finished.

We spent a nice time in LA with them and finished off the holiday with a short cruise to Mexico. On the last night on board we decided to have a last shot in the casino before bed. I won just under $1000 which I duly collected and kept. Our pals were really angry that I did not give them half.

What would you have done?

The main problem here is you don't say 1 thing about the "buy in!" Did you each start with the same amount of cash? If you start from a "pool" of cash and then end with a "pool" of cash, it is a lot easier to divide the spoils among each other. The other problem is that any such agreement must contain rules and it appears that no rules were made. For example, what do you do when someone completely looses their share, goes to the cage to cash a check and then with their own, non-pooled, money wins big? Most likely, that person would tell you all to go take a flying leap. If not, they would regret it the rest of their life but there would still be hostility all the way around.

When it comes to slots (that I prefer to call sluts), there is no way to calculate what is or is not a "winning." Before the days of automatic machines, you could simply scoop up whatever dropped in the tray and keep it in one cup while keeping your play money in another. Can't do that with the machines now and that is why most people will keep pushing the play button until all is lost. You would have to establish a time limit and whatever is left after that limit would go back into the cash pool.

Finally, there was no way to enforce the 1 agreement you had unless you had cameras trained on everyone that you could veiw later.

Best advice, if you want to keep your friends, do not ever enter into any kind of financial arrangement or they won't be your friends for long.
As with most people that think they can beat the house, the fool's folly is the only winner. They don't build those huge pretty buildings by giving away lots of winners and even when people do win, seldom do they get out of town with it.

Oh, BTW, does Vegas pay in Euros now?

[Now standing back waiting for the "I paid for all my food and hotel and broke even" stories. Yea, right!]

 

[Countryguy63]

Good Morning Davey,

For me, it's a 2 part question. With the first scenerio, that's hard because you are "gambling". It's the whole lure that the $500 and then the $400 could turn into more. Would there have been agreement of a minimum maximum type thing, then you have a basis to follow. I would have to say that based on what you info you shared, I don't think there were any infractions.

With the second scenerio, you guys had a greed and made it clear that the agreement had been cancelled, and therefore your winnings were yours to keep. However, "should you have shared to save the friendship", depends on how deep this friendship is (was). I personally don't think so, but like hilaire said, money deals like that will always run the risk of producing misunderstandings and poor behavior. So, if it's causing more hurt feelings than it's worth, maybe.

Again, I feel that if these are true friends, y'all can agree to put this behind you and learn from it, and continue with the friendship.

And again, all my rambling could be utter BS, lol :tongue:

 

[DaveyR]

Money is the only reason I have fallen out with friends....it really is the root of all evil. I would have done exactly the same thing Davey, out of principle. Don't hit yourself over the head about it.....you did good IMO.

I'm certainly not beating myself up about it Eddy :wink: The incident just made me realise how you change over time. I thought I was bang to rights at the time and still do but I would handle it very differently that's all.

 

[earllogjam]

If they were truly good friends that you enjoy and would like to keep as friends I would have shared my winnings. Who is to say your friend wouldn't have shared his $500 plus winnings with all of you instead of blowing it all?

Since I had made the winnings sharing agreement prior to the trip I would have shared the winnings from the last night at the casino but would not have divided up the cash but rather spend and treat everyone on something that ALL 4 of you could enjoy, dinner out together at a fancy restaurant, spa treatments together, theater or opera tickets, another trip somewhere...etc.

I wouldn't agree to sharing any wins for the next trip. That is if this sore patch hasn't ruined the friendship.

 

[Enid]

They argued that they did. To be fair to them we didn't discuss at what point it became a win. Collection from the machine or hitting the reels? I would not expect to have to go into that much detail on an agreement with pals but you live and learn.

...The agreement was a win less then $200 was kept by the winner anything over went into a pot to share out between the four of us...

...One of my pals won €500 but didn't collect it. He kept gambling with it and lost the lot. This happened again a short while later with $400...

I also would not have expected the need to go into detail. It's pretty simple isn't it? They won 500 at one point, and 400 at another. The agreement was if more than 200 was won then it would be shared. I just cannot see the reasoning behind "Oh well it doesn't count because I kept the win in the machine to play on".

 

[invisibleman]

This is an incident going back around 5 years but it has been on my mind a bit the last week wondering if I could have handled this differently.

We went to Vegas with two good pals for four days en route to LA. We chatted and agreed a policy for sharing wins.

The agreement was a win less then $200 was kept by the winner anything over went into a pot to share out between the four of us.

We didn't spend a lot of time on the machines just the odd hour here and there going in and out of the hotel. Paul and I were lucky the first 2 days and won over $2000 between us which we duly shared out.

Coming back into the hotel on the 3rd day we had a little go on the machines again. One of my pals won €500 but didn't collect it. He kept gambling with it and lost the lot. This happened again a short while later with $400.

He should've collected that money he won. He should've split up the $300 dollars out of $500 winnings as per agreement.

I was furious and discussed it with Paul back in the room. We decided to bring the matter up later at dinner which I did. Their answer was that it wasn't a win until it was collected from the machine. Paul and I saw it very differently and said so. We agreed not to fall out about it but Paul and I said there was no more sharing and that agreement was finished.

We spent a nice time in LA with them and finished off the holiday with a short cruise to Mexico. On the last night on board we decided to have a last shot in the casino before bed.


I won just under $1000 which I duly collected and kept. Our pals were really angry that I did not give them half.

Well, I guess they forgot that when they didn't fulfill the previous agreement in Vegas... and didn't listen to you when they breached and you let them know that all bets were off...you were within your right to keep your winnings. They kept theirs and decided to gamble your winnings and they lost. So...

What would you have done?

Those beyotches would have to deal and sustain on it. They breached. And since they breached, you and your beau called off the deal. That is yo' ch-ching.

 

[DaveyR]

I'm getting very very different views from people just as I would have expected.

 

[Northland]

Just bear in mind on the last win the agreement was finished.

Understood (now-I somehow missed that until after I had hit Submit and then read Senor Rubirosa's post and was too lazy to edit my post)

To be honest being a little older and wiser if it were now I would have given them half of the last win for precisely the reason you've stated Northland. In fact if it were now there would be no agreement to share in the first place. Money breaks friendships if you let it .

We live and learn throughout life. I've certainly made my share of misjudgements on matters and hopefully, as you seem to have, I've learned from the past so I can avoid repeating it.

 

[D_Pubert Stabbingpain]

I'm getting very very different views from people just as I would have expected.

the $1000 from the cruise was yours and yours alone so I don't understand why you have been beating yourself up over this whole mess for a full 5 years.