What's My Age Again?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Percy_Prettywillie, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. D_Percy_Prettywillie

    D_Percy_Prettywillie Account Disabled

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    We're 200 plus years into this thing and we've had some triumphs to be sure. We defeated communism, Hitler, put a man on the moon, invented the air plane and the telephone, came up with McDonalds and are the champions of "relaxed living." America has had a really amazing and improbable run. We've done so well... defeated so many advesaries, but it seems like the fight we're facing at the moment that seems so insurrmountable isn't against Nazi's or Aliens or zombies (that'd be way more interesting) but against ourselves.

    Can the two sides of the isle in the United States (and... let's be honest, there are only two) look at the same damn image of a duck, quacking like a duck and walking like one, and agree that it is a fucking duck?

    I have my philosophical, logistical, theoretical and even esoteric differences with people that lean or are firmly entrenched in on the right side of the spectrum. I've made no secret of that (here or in real life). That's most people I think; we all have our inclinations.

    But at what point does disagreement for the sake of political posturing become absurd to the point the citizenry really should consider governmental overthrow? After the President's last address something solidified in my head; it doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do, the gridlock will never be parsed in the current political atmosphere. The country needs a deep fucking breath and all the people we've elected (on both sides of the fence) seem to be interested in is setting up smoke machines.

    What is it that has to happen for us to set this bullshit aside and actually address these problems in frank, honest, bare bones, no-nonsense terms? Everyone seems to have the answer and while we (the American people) wait, we're expected to fend for ourselves in any number of ways. Political affiliation seems to matter less and less if government is going to equate to inaction dressed up as leadership (both by the White House and by Congress.) If we really want something done, the traditional avenues seem to be congested to the point of obsolescence.

    So... what is it that has to happen to get us moving, beyond "His plan is crap, no their plan is crap?" What is it we're missing about the election process that allows a third grade mentality to conduct the business of the worlds sole remaining super power? At what point do we as a country grow up and decide we deserve better than this? Not from one party or the other but from the system we ourselves put in place?




    JSZ
     
  2. PerfectlySexy

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    You're heart is in the right place, but I'd disagree on some points.

    "We defeated communism"

    People in the US really don't like to hear this but a communist country is arguably the most powerful in the world today (and, if you want to argue not today I might concede that it would be soon, depending on how one measures "powerful").

    "Can the two sides of the isle in the United States (and... let's be honest, there are only two)"

    To paraphrase Vonnegut, only through television has the idea of 2 sides of politics become entrenched in people's minds. The political parties do not represent the multitude of beliefs and ideals that can be found in the citizenry. Furthermore both of the current parties represent their interests, that of the rich, before the interests of anyone else. In this way there is merely the illusion of 2 parties who actually agree on everything that is relevant to them.

    But you are correct that congress is hopelessly corrupt, and polls show that the citizens of the US, often criticized for the political ignorance, are not unaware of this corruption. However, I think people in the US are a long way from doing anything about it. Things will have to get a lot worse. As a wise woman once said, "the people in the US will not revolt as long as they have cable tv."
     
  3. D_Percy_Prettywillie

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    This isn't so much a matter of fact so much as it is a matter of perception. Not unlike we feel we're the only remaining super power, it is ingrained in the popular consciousness that we did vanquish communism. Whether that is accurate or not is certainly a matter for debate but were you to ask the average American of the top five things America has defeated in it's existence, communism would make the list, if not outright top it.

    "Can the two sides of the isle in the United States (and... let's be honest, there are only two)"

    Again, while there are obviously several ideologies, multifaceted and exemplary on first inspection, only two really matter, regardless of how similar they in fact are. We, we, have narrowed this down to two options over the years and perpetually struggle to fool ourselves into thinking one option is the road to ruin while the other is the road to riches. Obviously, when conducting a symphony, the success boils down to more than just the success or failure of two notes. Still, that is the popular consciousness that is all I meant to address. The reality of the situation is, of course, somewhat different.


    It saddens me... but it does force me to ask... what event will be call to action enough to ensure the future of what has been so carelessly handed over to the current generation?



    JSZ
     
  4. dandelion

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    Just so. Congress may be squabbling over how best to make its own class immensely wealthy but the US ( and Uk, much the same applies) is a very comfortable place to live. Why interrupt your fun to go on a demonstration? So long as things are pretty good, most people are content to let those who like running things just do what they want.

    Communism, whats that? A label placed on certain states the US doesnt like? Did the right wing totalitarian dictatorship in the USSR have anything to do with socialism or marxism? The regime in the USSR fell apart because its people saw their lives were much worse than in those countries around them. Not a shot was fired. Not, at least, any which caused the downfall of the regime.

    Oh but the US was well paid for this in coin and prestige!

    I have read SF all my life, did a science degree, interested in technology and making things. Yes, amazing. A pure example of human apotheosis. So much more worthwhile than making weapons. But... in the face of so much which might have made a practical difference to a better world or society, a profligate waste.

    I think the truth is as said. It is not against ourselves. It is more a parallell society which has different values. Sometimes the two interact.

    Nope. It is in the nature of politicians that their existence is defined by diagreeing. But although there are two teams (this being the minimum number necesary to have a diagreement) it does not follow that there is genuine or fundamental disagreement. Or that their view of reality has anything to do with that of the majority.
    .

    An interesting question! My truth is that I have always been interested in politics and never felt either of the two ruling parties represents my views. Yet I have also never considered revolution. The point at which I would consider taking direct action would be where they actually restrict my life. To some extent I have taken direct action. I have chosen to ignore those 'laws' which say gay men are forbidden to have sex, for example. But these have not driven me to try to overthrow the government, perhaps because although various things have been illegal during my lifetime, in practice society was already ahed of law and because that law was frequently ineffectual. So apparently the answer is, the point at which it would make a real difference to me. In theory i might go out and protest of any of the issues which I feel are important, but in reality I never have.


    now we are discussing the economy? We discuss it here but there are two views on what should be done. Borrow and spend or stop borrowing and cut taxation. I honestly do not know which is the correct move and they are opposites. So which one would I go out and demand?
     
  5. umami_tsunami

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    The schism in our political ideologies accurately reflects the tribalism of our society. On the right, a nostalgic, idealized vision of rugged frontier individualism and freedom that rewards self-reliance and free market enterprise has historically been the aspiration. On the left, a more collective, inclusive and egalitarian approach has guided the agenda. There is a continuum and aspects of either ideology crossover at different levels for many people, but the polarization seems to coalesce around these basic tenets.

    The “event” you seek already occurred although from our perspective, it was less like turning a corner and more like coming around a bend. The information technology revolution has allowed the rapid spread of ideas to freely move across historically insurmountable boundaries. Arab spring is a great example of the power to communicate (relatively) unfettered by government regulation even in a totalitarian state.

    The right’s romanticized, outdated ideals will continue to be exposed for what they truly are: a regressive and dogmatic fear of those who are different from them, a childish and socially retarded perspective of individualism that cannot succeed in a world with the kind of challenges we face and a population we now support. They fear that someone (the guvmint) is going to “take away their stuff “and give it to the less deserving, a fear that they are going to be “told what to do”. They don’t want to “work together” with Obama or anyone else (but especially not with Obama). These people are generally older, more isolated, suspicious of cities and other centers of diversity and knowledge, and are beginning to die off or become increasingly marginalized politically and culturally.

    Young people see this and understand. The “circle the wagons around your heavily-armed homestead and keep out the invaders” mentality in the 21st century is radically unproductive and foolish at best. Of course, there are young people that will be right leaning, but who wants to be part of that fearful, warring, ignorant, troglodytic tribe when all the cool kids are on the other side? Some will be born and indoctrinated in to it, and others, perhaps raised in the isolation of rural setting with limited access to technology and social facility may be attracted, but intelligence and reason will prevail and a more cooperative, inclusive, peaceful and egalitarian society will result. It’s just going to take some time.
     
  6. travis1985

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    Much like the current generation of young people born and indoctrinated into the left. Don't act like the right is the only side doing it.
     
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