what's wrong with our society?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by liberalcynic, Jul 5, 2007.

  1. liberalcynic

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    what's wrong with our society?
    what principles do you think need to be implamented for a better liberal society?
    should there be forces in place to stop the church (or any religion) from say theraputic cloning is wrong, it can save many 100,000s of lives!
    politically, what is more important, giveing 2 men or 2 women the right to marry, or being politically correct about religion? (i.e. islam has caused many terrorist attacks, should be be weary of the religion? which is obviously prone to extreamism. if so why do we allow religion at all?)
    why don't we discuss sex openly in public, and why do we sit around our computer at night and pretend that we don't know about this site.
    and the reason it's in discrimation is because discrimination is what may gay and lesbians tend to get still.
    your political thoughts...please
     
  2. Rikter8

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    Big Government.

    Equal rights, and a level playing field, Less corruption, Less Greed, More Heart and Spirit into re-developing the US into a strong country based on trust and hard work ethics, and a government that focuses on the needs of this country, vs. the needs of their sponsored businesses.

    Do you really want another GWB in the world?
    I don't think it will save thousands of lives. I do think it will raise our health insurance costs through the roof, and provide little benefit to those in need.
    There are just some things in this world which are best left alone, and this is one of them.

    Same sex Marriage. It's what affects people in THIS country, RIGHT now, and is a pure form of discrimination based soley on personal views and beliefs rather than a cognative whole society change.

    Religion and Politics don't mix. They never should.
    WE as americans Shouldn't be thinking we can change the ideals of Islam EITHER. It's been that way for THOUSANDS of years, and one monkey faced republican isn't going to "cure" Islam.

    Because sex is generally a private topic, and not everybody wants to hear about your sexual adventures.
    Imagine if Grandpa walked up to you, and told you how loose Grandma's pussy was, and described it to you in detail.


    We do? When does screaming discrimination get ANYTHING productive done?
    Equal rights is what Most gay/lesbian people are after. Nothing more.
    And that's the same for gay/straight/black/White/Hispanic/Purple/Whatever people.
    Keep in Mind, Equal rights doesn't mean special rights.
    The ability to marry a human being you love is not a special right, nor should it be considered a special case. That's why this whole gay marriage and the hangup with the church is a total joke.
     
  3. viking1

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    One word...GREED! It all goes back to that. We call it by many names but it's all amounts to: I want it all for myself and to hell with everyone else.
     
  4. dong20

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    We are.
     
  5. hypolimnas

    hypolimnas Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that the real problem lies with those who don't have, or support, large penises.

    I'm pretty sure we are ok.:wink:
     
  6. dong20

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    Maybe, but of course I meant we in the broadest sense.

    Ultimately, society (however one defines it) is how we, as Humans have created, developed and allow it to be, there is no one else to blame.:smile:
     
  7. sdg475

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    To quote Jimi Hendrix: “When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.”

    With out writiting a wall of text, I think corruption and political policies being formed by the pressure to get re-elected have a lot to do with our problems as a country.
     
  8. wingnut84

    wingnut84 New Member

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    We need to get away from our consumeristic, materialistic, wasteful lifestyle, without a doubt. We could live just as happily on 5% of our GDP.
    I'd even go so far as to suggest that we need to get rid of industrial civilization altogether.

    Check these sites out, PLEASE

    Derrick Jensen

    Derrick Jensen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This guy is one of the most eloquent spokespeople for "anarcho-primitivism" (a word I put in quotes because of the negative connotations it invokes), a belief to which I subscribe. If you don't know a lot about it, don't be surprised, most people are addicted to our planet and life destroying lifestyle and have no interest in talking about a philosophy that would deny them their beloved bio-rape.
     
  9. viking1

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    If anyone else wants to go back 200 years in lifestyle, than have at it.
    I don't want to, and have no intention of doing so.
    Jensen is just another radical.
     
  10. wingnut84

    wingnut84 New Member

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    Only in times of mass deception/stupidity is a man who speaks the truth a "radical." It's an undisputable fact: Our lifestyle is absurdly unsustainable and extremely damaging to the earth and the human population is at least 10 times over what the earth can sustainably hold. We've already reached peak oil. Man is destroying the oceans, by the end of the century less than 10% of fish supplies will be left, and we'll be lucky if we have 10% of our rainforests. The poles are melting at an alarming rate- due to mankind Thousands of species go extinct each year- due to mankind. All of this is due to our "expand, conquer, exploit, kill, consume, enslave" mentality. You can bury your head in the sand and ignore what we're saying, but don't say I didn't warn you. Just hope that I'm feeling compassionate enough to help you out when this shit comes crumbling down.

    "If anyone else wants to go back 200 years in lifestyle, than have at it."

    This comment shows that either you obviously do not know anything about the philosophy, you know nothing about history or both. 200 years ago man was fucking up the world (at least the white man; indigineous Americans were <sarcasm>remarkably</s> able to live in harmony with nature for millenia) just as happily as he does today, there were just fewer of us and fewer tools with which to do so.
     
  11. viking1

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    You are entitled to your opinion. As am I to mine.

    I was talking about the lifestyle. We can't have out modern lifestyle and not destroy the earth. I have heard the peak oil crap for 30 years now.
    I still don't believe it anymore that I did in '74.

    I will be long dead before the end of this century, so it won't bother me.

    I personally don't want to live as the American Indians did. I work too much now. Spending nearly every minute in life working just to survive is not my idea of living.
     
  12. Rikter8

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    Imagine if these large corporations had the same rules and regulations as consumers.

    Id bet you would cut the pollution problem in half, if not 3/4.

    For a buck books can be cooked, for bottom line numbers. Its as simple as that.
    WHen the rules and regulations start being placed on the real polluters of this world, then the rest of us can follow through and do our part.

    But, I agree, its a "ME ME ME" society.
     
  13. viking1

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    Amen, Rikter8!

    It's all about greed. The rich, who happen to be in control politically, and the poor who work for them at their mercy. We can change it but we won't.
     
  14. Freddie53

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    Concerning principles that need to be implements for a better liberal society. First we need to have a strong civics education in our schools that teaches what our constitutional goals were and also educate our citizens. Sadly many people in America would not vote in favor of most of the Bill of Rights that we so treasure.

    People don't understand that the freedom of religion amendment was about keeping the government out of church first and keeping the church from running the government second.

    Both institutions should respect each other. They can co-exist peacefully. The church should not be making government decisions about abortion, end of life situations, adult lifestyle choices that don't interfere with other people etc. The government should respect people's right to make those decisions without interference. If a family believes that it is morally wrong to give blood transfusions to keep an adult from dying, the government shouldn't interfere. For minors, it is a difficult line and I won't go there on this post.

    Same with abortion. The government shouldn't require an abortion for any reason. Neither should the government prevent an abortion because some people's religion believe it to be wrong. This is an example of the church trying to run the government.

    The poster commenting that the government can't change the face of Islam is correct. However, Muslims in this country have to live under our laws. Muslim organizations here in America may not have their own judicial system and the ability to punish Muslims as in cutting of a man's arm for certain crimes etc. All Americans are under the same judicial system and consequences whether religious or not.

    So the above addresses the state and religion issue or at least addresses some of the issues.

    To some of the other issues. Humans aren't perfect so we will never have a perfect society. BUT.................

    We spend upwards of $50,000 to house prison inmates. If we would spend just a fraction of that in improving our school system, we could reduce the number of adults with major problems dramatically. We could have only 10 students per teacher in elementary. We could hire counselors to help troubled kids while in elementary and not wait until they are in their late teens and have a pattern of crime set for life.

    We could provide a free college education or technical education for EVERY person in America, which would give job skills to help those in poverty. We could provide universal health coverage and childcare for parent who need it while they are working.

    All of this would cost less that what our prisons are costing. We could be spending our prison dollars on educating the prisoners and helping those who are willing to find a way to fit in society as a beneficial person.

    I realize we won't save them all from trouble. But I firmly believe that a majority of troubled people can be helped if only we made a a real honest to goodness effort to do so.

    But until we as a society learn to respect our sacred Bill of Rights and our country is willing to fix children before they become deviates, our society is not going to get better.
     
  15. wingnut84

    wingnut84 New Member

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    As to your first point, that's exactly my point. We can't have our modern lifestyle, period. It's inherently unsustainable. The sooner we realize that and say piss off to our SUVs, TVs and jet aeroplanes the better off we'll be.

    Your second point kind of disturbs me... you have no concern for anyone who will be alive after you're dead?

    And I had to laugh when I read your last paragraph... that's the thing... they didn't work nearly as hard as us! "Primitive" societies have tended to consist of far less work and far more time to spend doing things you want to do with people with whom you want to do them (VERY unlike our "advanced" society).
     
  16. Nrets

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    I want to say to Wingnut84: Amen brother. You said everything I could consider saying. I was going to put something down about the effects of materialism and consumerism on society and the repercussions such as unsusainability and incredible superficiality leading to feelings of aliention from our true nature.
    I still want to point out to all the people who aren't willing to give up the BS most people slave for at work: All that shit doesn't actually make you happy. It just makes you want more shit. Consumerism is an addiction. It helps us cope with the emptiness of modern life. I try to avoid falling in those traps personally. It can be an uphill battle. But I have learned to aquire things in less than conventional ways for fun. And in doing so, I work less.
    I go for walks when life makes me anxious. I usually walk or ride a bike to work. I quit my corporate job. I work minimally at a library. That said I fall into some traps. I love old cars. I own one and occasionally drive frivolously. I spend too much time online. I like LPSG because the openness can be liberating. Like I said, too much time online.
    If everyone chucked all the BS society sells us starting the day we are born, we would be physically healthier and our days would be more fulfilling. Instead of being exhausted everyday because we busted ass to impress a boss or land an account or whatever most people spend their days doing, we would have nothing but time to survive and do what we do best, be human.
    Sure, there would be days where you might run all day and not get any food, but when you finally get that food, it would be so much better than just sitting aorund all day and then picking up a ready made chicken at the local grocery store. It isn't natural to get food that easily. That is why so many people are out of shape.
    We are so detached from nature. No wonder they call us prozac nation. It is depressing, and people need pills to cope. Consumerism created the problem of making life borong by removing immediate danger, and then it solves the problem with anti-depressants.
    There is no end to the problems that consumerism and materialism cause and then under that system comes up with cock a mamy ways to alleviate the problems with more consumerism and materialism. Bigger houses. Bigger cars. Bigger genetically modified chickens to feed the ever growing population. Starving people could probably live a lot more comfortably if we shared all the grain that was used to feed these Frankensteined animals. But no, we want genetically engineered chicken breasts and legs with no beaks or feet so that we can eat as much as possible.
    Using more consumerism to solve the problems of the world is like taking a handful of Somas because you snorted too much cocaine. It WILL even things out for a bit...but eventually you rupture an artery or something just fucking terrible.
    If we gave up all the consumerism, materialism, capitalism in general, we would have time to really live the human experience. Life is short. We would have time to really live it. Music would be more beautiful. The sky would be bluer... literally and figuratively, and the people you decide to hook up with as a mate would be more important to you. Imagine an earthquake happening. You are reminded of your mortality..well the person you are with would be all that mattered in that moment, and maybe you would passionatley embrace, as Borat would say "make sexy time." Your orgasm would be amazing because you wouldn't be worried about whether or not you are going to be able to pay your insurance dedectible on your damaged house or any other thought that people ruin perfectly awesome oppurtunities to embrace such as a natural disaster.
    Consumerism is an addiction...it's like fucking crack. It will be the death of us all unless we break free. And oh how it is going to be a struggle for some to break free.
    It's cool to see that someone else here feels similarly. Either LPSG attracts some interesting viewpoints, or the whole world situation has come to such a boiling point that these realizations are going to start popping up in the least likely of places. Maybe a little of both. Very possibly the latter.
     
  17. viking1

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    There is no way the Earth can support it's current population without modern technology. Do you mean just shut down everything and let two thirds of the people die from starvation, thirst, and disease? Then those who remain can live the Indians lifestyle, and commune with nature. Sounds pretty radical to me. If that's not what you are saying, then explain how this can work.

    There is no way I believe ancient societies worked less. When you have to grow food, hunt, build shelter, and provide heat...all by hand with no modern tools. They may have been closer to nature and to other people, but there was more work.
     
  18. hot-rod

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    I think the biggest problem with our society is caffein. It is making people crazy. People are strung-out on caffein and don't know it until you get off of it. Caffein is in just about evrything we ingest as humans. Children are being fed all kinds of drugs for this and that and society is now and will be a long time, paying a huge price. It is making people violent.
     
  19. Shelby

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  20. wingnut84

    wingnut84 New Member

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    Well, many people are already dying from starvation, thirst and disease as we speak, largely due to the rape of the earth we've already inflicted. I suppose what would probably be best is (preferably) voluntary population control. Meaning: Adopt. If you HAVE to, have A child, not 5 or 12. What disturbs me is the common notion that world population growth is a good thing and countries with low birth rates (Spain, Italy, Japan, etc) are the screwed up ones.

    Look, there's not going to be easy solutions. I'm not claiming to have all the answers, I'm just putting the problems out there.

    As to your second paragraph, while some societies worked less than others due to circumstances, pretty much all of them spent less than 40+ hours a week cooped up in a box doing shit they didn't want to do (like us in our "civilized" societies).
     
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