What's your take on the transgender thing?

[bek2335]

I just had dinner with a friend a little while ago and the topic of Chastity/Chaz Bono came up. I am someone who is quite liberal in sexual and gender matters, but I have trouble with the notion of a person "changing gender". I have no problem with butch women or effeminate men at all. If that is who you are, great. But when it comes to surgery and hormones to change gender, something about that doesn't feel OK to me. Why does it have to be so black & white - a person must be either male or female? What's wrong with being a very butch woman or an effeminate man? Gender reassigment surgery to me is horrific. Some surgeon exploiting this and getting rich!!!

I'm not talking about hermaphrodism, that's a different issue. But C. Bono becoming a MAN??? She isn't a man, she a butch woman. (and just as an aside, as someone who knows something about emotional overeating, perhaps she needs to worry first about her problems with food and weight than about supposedly becoming a man.)

Perhaps in 50 years my attitude will seem narrow and unenlightened, or perhaps it seems that way now. But it is how I feel.

I am interested in hearing what others have to say about it.

 

[BiggerInTexas8]

Being Transgender or Transsexual is a real thing. I've met enough trans people to realize that it is and we have talked about their gender and how they were born the wrong gender and how much happier they are after changing their gender/sex. Your views are pretty transphobic but that's just because you do not understand Trans people. Watch the movies Boys Don't Cry and Trans America and you will understand what Transgender and Transsexual people have to go through. There is also a documentary about changing gender that is good called Middle Sexes that is also quite good. HBO: Middle Sexes: Redefining He and She

 

[bek2335]

Texas, I will do that. I do want to learn if there are things I am ignorant about.

 

[Dave NoCal]

There was a cable TV series called TransGeneration about trans college students. It's pretty good and possible available for rental.
Dave

 

[IntoxicatingToxin]

Someone already said this, essentially, but I'll echo it. People don't do it because they feel like they have to in order to fit into society. They do it because they WANT to. They WANT to be the opposite sex. In most cases, they feel like they were born the wrong gender. It doesn't bother me the slightest bit if the person is prepared for it. I know that they usually undergo lots of psychiatric testing, and I think that's incredibly important.

 

[Xcuze]

(and just as an aside, as someone who knows something about emotional overeating, perhaps she needs to worry first about her problems with food and weight than about supposedly becoming a man.)

.

This is what struck me when I saw the picture of her recently. She can't control her bodyweight and eating habits as it is already. Now she wants to go through an extreme operation to change gender? Seems to me she's piling one issue on top of an other.

Or maybe she thinks changing gender will give her a taste for muesli?

 

[B_Stronzo]

"Transgender THING"??

Um I dunno .. what's you're take on that there "homo thing"?

Yikes people.


It occurs to me that transgender issues are as relevant as Gay, lesbian, and bisexual ones.

For anyone posting here to show such insensitivity to Chastity Bono's dilemma is very short-sighted.

Whatever happened to "LGBT" issues as we discuss them here?

Are we discriminating against transgender ppl now? Not this fella.

I cannot begin to imagine what being trapped in the body of the other gender would be like. Chas Bono is a remarkably bright individual. I applaud her courage and her fortitude in the face of a broadly unsympathetic public.

Someone already said this, essentially, but I'll echo it. People don't do it because they feel like they have to in order to fit into society. They do it because they WANT to. They WANT to be the opposite sex. In most cases, they feel like they were born the wrong gender. It doesn't bother me the slightest bit if the person is prepared for it. I know that they usually undergo lots of psychiatric testing, and I think that's incredibly important.

TMM put it best.

Or maybe she thinks changing gender will give her a taste for muesli?

Unnecessarilly unfeeling and glib

 

[mitchymo]

Personally i could never imagine wanting to change my gender however easier it could make things which is the point i guess, its personal.

I think i would rather see people who feel they are 'in the wrong body' as transgendered than transvestite tho, its just too comical looking and i think unfair that they must live as their new chosen gender fo 1 year (don't know how it works in US or other countries) prior to any surgery.

 

[Xcuze]

Unnecessarilly unfeeling and glib

Haha I knew for certain you'd go back and edit that into your post. Yep, you're that predictable. Your type never miss a chance to snatch some high ground. However slight.

It'll be a cold day in hell when anyone see's you as the voice of reason and sensitive feelings. Personally, I find you about as sincere as Janice Dickinson in a Save the whale t-shirt.

And I pity any fool flattered by your smarmy compliments.

Now, back on topic...

 

[BIGBULL29]

I think i would rather see people who feel they are 'in the wrong body' as transgendered than transvestite tho, its just too comical looking and i think unfair that they must live as their new chosen gender fo 1 year (don't know how it works in US or other countries) prior to any surgery.

I understand your point, but it's not what "we" prefer, but what "they" prefer.:biggrin1: It's just not our business, unless they're being discriminated against. They have a right to live as they want, transgendered or as transvestite. It's up to them.

They are a group of people who society really despises. I've even heard some gays and lesbians deride them in a very hateful way. Totally inacceptable! They say that can't understand how someone could want to change his or her gender. Well, I'm sorry to bust their bubbles, but they are a lot of folks who can't ever imagine engaging in gay sex (probably a little less so with men, though, than women:biggrin1.

 

[B_Stronzo]

I understand your point, but it's not what "we" prefer, but what "they" prefer.:biggrin1: It's just not our business, unless they're being discriminated against. They have a right to live as they want, transgendered or as transvestite. It's up to them.

Exactly so.

They are a group of people who society really despises. I've even heard some gays and lesbians deride them in a very hateful way.

This is the second thread in as many weeks that's done precisely that - and of all places at LPSG. I'm pretty surprised at the lack of compassion and understanding.

Totally inacceptable! They say that can't understand how someone could want to change his or her gender. Well, I'm sorry to bust their bubbles, but they are a lot of folks who can't ever imagine engaging in gay sex (probably a little less so with men, though, than women:biggrin1.

Boy did you ever nail it! Here we (or I as a gay man) demand total acceptance yet witness this intolerance. What gives?

Haha I knew for certain you'd go back and edit that into your post. Yep, you're that predictable. Your type never miss a chance to snatch some high ground. However slight.

Well if nothing else then Xcuze I don't disappoint.

"My type"? What 'type' would that be pray tell?

Could you tell me why it is that in every post I read of yours you're either unkind, snide, or belittling?

Yep. You're that predictable.

I don't need to snatch "high ground". It's there for the taking. High ground exists and is there if you'd only choose to access it.

It doesn't hurt to be supportive and kind from time to time. I can assure you of that.

Personally i could never imagine wanting to change my gender however easier it could make things which is the point i guess, its personal.

I hear that mitchymo. I think one of the problems is that we, as gay men, are afraid of the whole transgender phenomenon because (since as you ponit out) we'd never consider ourselves born into the wrong body.

And yes. I'd say it's entirely personal. Pity Chas Bono has to life her life in the public spotlight through no doing of her own.

It'll be a cold day in hell when anyone see's you as the voice of reason and sensitive feelings. Personally, I find you about as sincere as Janice Dickinson in a Save the whale t-shirt.

And I pity any fool flattered by your smarmy compliments.

I'll ask you this once reasonably.

Lay off the personal assaults. I hope that's crystal clear. I don't know you. I don't care to know you. And you don't know me.

Perhaps there's a stray kitten handy you can kick for personal gratification. But leave me out of your discontent.

 

[mako shark]

I have met and spent time with several transgender persons and much enjoyed the conversation. They have been smart, educated, and quite willing to answer my questions. That being said, I don't think that we will ever know what it is like until we walk in their shoes for a while.

 

[pornographicpoet]

I've been friends with a couple of genderqueer people....none went for the operation to change sex...but I see nothing wrong with it...it's their decision, not anyone else's. Besides, gender dysphoria is quite common....I remember one day after sharing writing with a good friend of mine who is also a straight male we both remarked about how we sometimes felt alienated from other males due to our androgynous tendencies.

 

[chicagosam]

Some info on one of the first trangendered personalities—Christine Jorgensen.
Christine Jorgensen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Christine Jorgensen Website
Christine Jorgensen  |  The Christine Jorgensen Transsexual Story

 

[B_Stronzo]

Thanks Sam.

 

[Drifterwood]

I think that having to deal with a gender dilemma must be one of the hardest things there is in life. Some pre christian cultures are totally cool about it, and imo, so should we.

It is a perfectly natural human condition, so why should we be anything but accepting of it and supportive?

 

[DiscoBoy]

I don't think it's something a non-transgender person can begin to understand or truly accept until they've spoken to a person who has gone through or thought of going through with it. Or at the very least, read first-person accounts about the way they feel and what they experience.

Don't knock it until you've at least put the effort to try to understand it. And even then, I can't begin to imagine why a person would discriminate against these individuals.

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

Obviously transgender and transvestite are two totally different things. The possibility of becoming transgendered only being a very recent option, and thus very new to many people.

As for cross-dressers, some traditional cultures have long been able to openly deal with men who feel, and dress more like females. Females who feel, and act more like men are less common, perhaps because they are less tolerated.

In Samoan culture male cross-dressers are called Fa-fa-fines, and are allowed to openly dress as they like, which is often very colorfully given the South Pacific flora, and Polynesian style. Fa-fa-fines are highly prized for their ability to get things done with a high level of efficiency, and attention to detail. But they are not without ridicule, as some are so affected in their manner, they call too much attention to themselves, or behave like drama queens. Still they are accepted as a valuable part of the community, which is more than can be said in many Western cultures. Samoan culture is a complicated blend of both pre-Christian, and post Missionary cultures.

Personally I can't imagine even contemplate gender change, but I think it takes real courage for someone to go through the process. It seems like such a traumatic change, I would hope a transgenderd person find peace with themselves after it's done.

 

[444099]

Big Bull don't be such a hypocrite.

Ok, but what difference does it make? Even if you had an operation to become female, you're still technically male and always will be.:wink:

 

[nudeyorker]

You know I have really not given it very much thought until the last few weeks. I think that it must take a great deal of courage and likely a painful and heart rending journey to reach. I can only hope that for those who make this decision; have the love and support or their family and friends.