What's your view on Gordon Brown?

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I don't think he ever was. One of the first things that he did was to abdicate responsibility for the Bank Of England. They then actually did a very good job, for which he was quick to take the credit. However he failed to give them regulatory power which came back to haunt us in a very big way.

Governments everywhere were bitten in the arse.
(Canada's did a lot better than most, for the record.)

The hidden inflation I referred to above was house prices increasing every year by three times the rate of inflation, fuelled by cheap money from the Far and Middle East.

Isn't that just the market at work?
What could, or should, Brown have done about that?

He seemed to lose the plot after several years though and went berserk with spending, even before the recession when he was still Chancellor.

I don't know how independent the Chancellor is, but wouldn't fiscal policy be broadly under Blair's control?
In Canada, if a finance minister and PM disagreed about spending, I think the PM would prevail, pretty much without question.

I don't think he has what it takes to do the top job really - he only functions in a number 2 role.

That's my impression, but I'm not much in touch.

 

[Drifterwood]

Isn't that just the market at work?
What could, or should, Brown have done about that?

Regulated the mortgage market, stopped loan to value loans over 90%, stopped the banks lending people eight times their pre tax salary, ensured the Banks were not over leveraged themselves, not been complicit in maintaining the appearance of demand outstripping supply. Just your usual prudent stuff.

But then why would he? he was making a fortune as chancellor and spending the money on things that have delivered no perceivable improvement.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Regulated the mortgage market, stopped loan to value loans over 90%, stopped the banks lending people eight times their pre tax salary, ensured the Banks were not over leveraged themselves, not been complicit in maintaining the appearance of demand outstripping supply. Just your usual prudent stuff.

You probably think I didn't know that.
Hehe. Late day for me, Drifter.

Now, please help me:

"Stopped loan to value loans over 90%" ... can you translate into Canadian?

"...not been complicit in maintaining the appearance of demand outstripping supply..."
Was this merely an appearance?

Serious questions. I am an artist and an anchorite, y'know.
I realize that key to your online charisma is your arch refusal* to overexplain. ;-]

*indubitably British

 

[Drifterwood]

You probably think I didn't know that.
Hehe. Late day for me, Drifter.

Now, please help me:

"Stopped loan to value loans over 90%" ... can you translate into Canadian?

"...not been complicit in maintaining the appearance of demand outstripping supply..."
Was this merely an appearance?

Serious questions. I am an artist and an anchorite, y'know.
I realize that key to your online charisma is your arch refusal* to overexplain. ;-]

*indubitably British

Loan to Value is the loan amount as a percentage of the purchase price. People were being lent £250K to buy a house overvalued at £200K. Don't start me on the fueling of consumerist aspiration. We now have just shy of one million households who owe more on their property than it is worth and according to one property company, Savills, this will not be rectified until 2014 to 2017 depending on where you live.

They bandied around a statistic that we had two million too few homes, but I feel that this was a manipulation. It would be a big debate in itself, but it is largely based upon aspiration rather than necessity. We don't see two million households or young people on the street. You could say that they were responsible for people not being able to afford a home. I always felt it was bad news for an economy if a family with the average income could not afford the average home. It being your major cost in life, it creates a serious imbalance between the ability to save and have disposable income to live.

Am I speaking Canadian now?

If so, I want a Canadian flag badge that I will wear with pride. :smile:

 

[798686]

Rubes - I think Gordon pretty much ruled the roost when it came to Government spending...he was supposedly the expert, and it seemed that Blair listened to him on economic issues (that was the impression I got, anyway).

I think the Chancellor was unusually powerful during the Blair years - maybe as a result of the Blair-Brown deal on who would be PM, etc... I think he had influence over other areas of policy too, and was basically Blair's #2.

I think Brown is maybe realising now that it's a lot easier to see things clearly and advise as a deputy, as the buck doesn't ultimately stop with you. That's what I'd always opt for anyway, haha - being the leader is rubbish.

[*Puts maple-leaf tracky-top on, in honour of Rubes].

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Am I speaking Canadian now?

If so, I want a Canadian flag badge that I will wear with pride. :smile:

Exemplary job. (And beautiful Canadian.)
Your badge is in the male.

It all was the sort of thing that was wonderful for some, as long as it was wonderful.
But then, as Dr. Hemingstein used to say, the bill always comes ...

Rubes - I think Gordon pretty much ruled the roost when it came to Government spending...he was supposedly the expert, and it seemed that Blair listened to him on economic issues (that was the impression I got, anyway).

I think the Chancellor was unusually powerful during the Blair years - maybe as a result of the Blair-Brown deal on who would be PM, etc... I think he had influence over other areas of policy too, and was basically Blair's #2.

Gotcha, joll.

I think Brown is maybe realising now that it's a lot easier to see things clearly and advise as a deputy, as the buck doesn't ultimately stop with you. That's what I'd always opt for anyway, haha - being the leader is rubbish.

My sentiments exactly, joll.

[*Puts maple-leaf tracky-top on, in honour of Rubes].

Rubi builds a vegetable casserole, starting with leeks, in joll's fine honour.

 

[Drifterwood]

Rubi builds a vegetable casserole, starting with leeks, in joll's fine honour.

Or better still BBC - Mid Wales Food and Drink - Cawl Cennin Recipe

I'll start tenderising the lamb

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Or better still BBC - Mid Wales Food and Drink - Cawl Cennin Recipe

I'll start tenderising the lamb

I'll bring over your badge in the early evening.
7 PM?

Seriously, Drifter, this looks good. I have saved it.

 

[798686]

Or better still BBC - Mid Wales Food and Drink - Cawl Cennin Recipe

I'll start tenderising the lamb

Looks nice Drifter! I'll get Kotch to rustle up a bit of Bara Brith, too.

 

[mitchymo]

I'm Labour usually - but thinking a vote for Cameron might be wiser for Britain at the moment...

Hmm, so you truly DO swing both ways! :tongue:

 

[jason_els]

I think he needs a decent tailor.

God yes! And would someone please get a gay man to style his hair??

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

Hmm, so you truly DO swing both ways!

sorry guys, im a political homophobe then. Whatever Brown does, i have to think, not who will do more for me, but who will do me less damage? Brown or Cameron? Id rather have a bullying oath rather than a snide twat anyday. the best descriptions i ever heard about some politicians was

"Blair is the sort of bully that will get his friends to get you, brown will just beat you up and Cameron is the sort to go running to the teacher making up lies" no idea where i heard it but IMO not too far off.

 

[Jason]

I don't see how anyone can vote for the party Gordon Brown represents.

The last leader Blair should be facing a war crimes trial and after the guilty verdict be found a prison cell to consider the error of his ways. Brown is not untainted by this. Nor are any senior Labour politicians untainted. If they were in any line of business other than politics they would all be facing trials. This is beyond a political issue - they are criminals. Remeber the cash for peerage scandal? We all know they took money in return for knighthoods. Remeber the advisor in Brown's personal office caught inventing lies to tell about the personal lives of senior Conservatives? Remember David Abrahams and the laundered cash for Labour? Remember the strange death of David Kelly? Remember the efforts to erode civil liberties by extending detention without charge? Remeber the use of anti-terrorist legislation to arrest a Conservative MP (and search his Westminster office and home) because he embarrased Brown? Remember the betrayal of the Lisbon referendum, promised but not given? Remember the "prudent" chancellor has got us into a recession which all other G20 nations save us have come out of.

I just don't see how anyone can support Gordon Brown. On top of it all he's a rude bully that the civil servants hate working for, and he has a problem working with women.

At the European election Labour got 25% of the vote. I'm shocked. What does it take for people to realise that Labour is beyond the pale? Vote Con, LibDem, SNP, PC, SDLP, UUP, DUP, UKIP, just about anyone, but not for these oiks.