When a woman initiates a conversation with you...

rtg

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When a woman initiates a conversation with me...

I don't presume anything. I do watch for signals that she may be interested in more than just having a conversation.

Here are the ones I look for:

-lots of smiling
-lots of eye contact
-lots of conversation
-she touches or adjusts her hair, jewelry or clothes
-incidental touching of my hand, arm, shoulder, side
-her eyes running down my body
-persistent lingering presence--she does not want our encounter to end and lingers or re-initiates contact

The last is the most obvious. Women who are really interested insert themselves into my life over and over. This is especially true of introverted women who have trouble maintaining a conversation. They're not big talkers, which is fine, but end up hanging out a lot and finding excuses to do so.

"I was wondering if you were ever going to ask me out" is a phrase I've heard many times.



This is the saddest part of your post: the expectation that men pursue women not the other way round.

My advice is to ask for a guy's number, especially in situations like a party or social gathering where you've just met and are not likely to meet ever again. If he becomes a pest you can always block his number.
Thanks for your post and advice. I'm a little offended that you said it's sad about me wanting for a guy to ask for my number. It's not because I expect it to be the mans jobs, but because I'm painfully shy as I alluded to. It's a massive step for me to even initiate a conversation with a guy and I'm not quite at the point where I could request a number.
 
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Thanks for your post and advice. I'm a little offended that you said it's sad about me wanting for a guy to ask for my number. It's not because I expect it to be the mans jobs, but because I'm painfully shy as I alluded to. It's a massive step for me to even initiate a conversation with a guy and I'm not quite at the point where I could request a number.

@rtg - with all of this advice - and maybe with help at therapy - have you come up with some baby step ways for you to address your shyness? You have so much to offer based on what I know about you from here. I hope you find your way through.
 
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rtg

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@rtg - with all of this advice - and maybe with help at therapy - have you come up with some baby step ways for you to address your shyness? You have so much to offer based on what I know about you from here. I hope you find your way through.
Yeah I've been talking to my psychologist about it... why does every one keep ignoring the fact that I'm actually approaching men in the first place? That's more than a baby step to me. The rest I'm working on but I only approached a guy for the first time a bit over a month ago and have done it a few times since.. so those are big deals to me. But im getting involved in more sport and stuff to try and meet ppl (both men and women). Thanks for the compliment too :)
 

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Yeah I've been talking to my psychologist about it... why does every one keep ignoring the fact that I'm actually approaching men in the first place? That's more than a baby step to me. The rest I'm working on but I only approached a guy for the first time a bit over a month ago and have done it a few times since.. so those are big deals to me. But im getting involved in more sport and stuff to try and meet ppl (both men and women). Thanks for the compliment too :)

@rtg - you deserve a lot of credit for approaching men and it is a significant step - I think it is hard for people who are not very shy to step into your shoes in a virtual context and forum.
 
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@rtg - you deserve a lot of credit for approaching men and it is a significant step - I think it is hard for people who are not very shy to step into your shoes in a virtual context and forum.
Yeah I think you're right. From talking to ppl I know who are very outgoing they literally can't understand how hard it is for a shy person to talk to ppl. And on top of that I do have social anxiety. So it's not that I just find it hard approaching ppl... I struggle to keep a conversation going and probably send out awkward cues. Unless I know someone and am comfortable around them I literally can't think of things to talk about with ppl unless it's work related or the weather haha.
 
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Thanks for your post and advice. I'm a little offended that you said it's sad about me wanting for a guy to ask for my number. It's not because I expect it to be the mans jobs, but because I'm painfully shy as I alluded to. It's a massive step for me to even initiate a conversation with a guy and I'm not quite at the point where I could request a number.

I apologize. It was not my intention to offend. I wasn't singling you out. I meant I'm sad that women are restricted by social norms to ask men out.
 
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rtg

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I apologize. It was not my intention to offend. I wasn't singling you out. I meant I'm sad that women are restricted by social norms to ask men out.
Ah ok gotcha, all good. Yeah I'm all for women doing it! I admire women who have the guts / confidence to do it! Hopefully it'll be me someday!
 
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Ah ok gotcha, all good. Yeah I'm all for women doing it! I admire women who have the guts / confidence to do it! Hopefully it'll be me someday!

It will! Believe in yourself and don't forget you're awesome!! All the guys where you started conversation are damn lucky that such a lovely lady is talking to them! And always keep in the back of your mind that they also might be a little shy to ask for your number because such a sexy lady is standing in front of them...

I had it with my girlfriend, she was the one that initiated the first conversation and I was the one that asked for her number. But it took a while (we work at the same place) as I kept thinking "no way that this sexy lady is interested in more than talking, she is just being nice".. when I told her about it she was laughing and said "I was obviously making moves and waiting for you to make the next one"

Long story short, you never know from the outside what the other is thinking, you're doing great so far, let's see if you can take it to the next level by asking at least one telephone number ;-)
 
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I think men are just happy when a woman initiates a conversation regardless of the topic or the nature of her intentions. Whether or not it will develop into anything depends on the chemistry between the two people. Men are just grateful that women are willing to take the lead sometimes. It doesn't have to be anything more than platonic in nature...just that you are making the first move.

Now, on to your question about attraction, I don't think it's that complicated. There'll be telltale signs and different men, like women, will have varying degree of expression. The basic goes both ways I think -- if he tries to carry on the conversation and/or introduce a new subject when the previous one is finished then chances are he's enjoying the conversation with you. That is a good sign. If you begin to feel like time is flying and you're losing track of how long you've been chatting, that's a good thing. If the feeling is right, just ask him. We appreciate the straightforwardness as much as women do really. And if it turns out that he's not interested, don't be discouraged. These things happen. If it's not meant to be it's not meant to be.

I don't know if I've answered your question or not but I hope it's something.
 
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rtg

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I think men are just happy when a woman initiates a conversation regardless of the topic or the nature of her intentions. Whether or not it will develop into anything depends on the chemistry between the two people. Men are just grateful that women are willing to take the lead sometimes. It doesn't have to be anything more than platonic in nature...just that you are making the first move.

Now, on to your question about attraction, I don't think it's that complicated. There'll be telltale signs and different men, like women, will have varying degree of expression. The basic goes both ways I think -- if he tries to carry on the conversation and/or introduce a new subject when the previous one is finished then chances are he's enjoying the conversation with you. That is a good sign. If you begin to feel like time is flying and you're losing track of how long you've been chatting, that's a good thing. If the feeling is right, just ask him. We appreciate the straightforwardness as much as women do really. And if it turns out that he's not interested, don't be discouraged. These things happen. If it's not meant to be it's not meant to be.

I don't know if I've answered your question or not but I hope it's something.
Thanks for taking the time to reply, that definitely helps :) most of the comments, if not all, have really just gone to show me that thinking a guy doesn't want to talk to me is probably just all in my head. As I said earlier, the guys all seemed happy enough to talk to me... I guess my over thinking probably gets in the way of making the conversation last or go in a different direction.
 
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Thanks for taking the time to reply, that definitely helps :) most of the comments, if not all, have really just gone to show me that thinking a guy doesn't want to talk to me is probably just all in my head. As I said earlier, the guys all seemed happy enough to talk to me... I guess my over thinking probably gets in the way of making the conversation last or go in a different direction.

I think you're right that it's more in your head. We're not as complex a creature as you make us out to be really. Just enjoy the interaction you get and if the guy turns out to be a dick then ignore him and move on. It's probably just him.
 
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Hey guys... so I'm very shy and have trouble talking to men in real life. Lately I've been trying to push myself out of my comfort zone and talk to men when the opportunity seems to present itself. I'd like your opinion on what you think when a woman initiates a conversation with you... do you think she's desperate?

Also the guys I've spoken to have seemed happy enough to speak to me. But I don't know if they are just being polite so I don't know how long to make the conversation go for... I'll generally just exit the conversation as I don't know what to do next.

If a guys interested, how do I know? And how do I go to the next step of getting him to ask me for his number or vice versa?

Without some context (i.e. the situations in which you are approaching/talking to men) its difficult to offer specific guidance so the below is some general commentary.

I don't think that a woman initiating a conversation is a sign of desperation, though it can be received differently. Typically the primal part of a man's brain leads them to think that you're showing a sexual interest in them whilst the logical part of a man's brain tries to refute this by convince you that the interest is platonic (some men are better at this than others). As such if your interest is of a romantic/physical nature then some men will pick up on this better than others (especially depending upon the various signals that you maybe unconciously sending out).

If you are wanting to evidence a real interest then you are going to have to try and make an effort to keep the conversation going. I know it sounds like a salesmans pitch but use open questions instead of closed, get a pre-prepared list of questions set in your head, perhaps read up on some body language cues (some folk are quite good at controlling their instinctual responses but I would assume that you could, fairly accurately, read the body language of 7 out of every 10 people in a one on one or somesuch setting). Analysing the responses is really dependent about environmental context, for example is this a discussion in the workplace (where someone is more likely to be polite for the sake of professionalism) is it in a bar (where someone is less likely to be polite for appearances sake).

In terms of your own fear of rejection this is understandable. Urging someone, who perhaps maybe low on confidence/self-esteem, to "get over themselves" and get on with is clearly a counter-productive solution! Putting yourself out their for people to reject is exceptionally daunting, and ths fear can really only be overcome by developing a positive self image of yourself (if you are already speaking to a professional to assist you on this then you are on the right track). This doesn't mean that you need to become the life and soul of the party it just means that you learn accept this form of rejection for what it is - very minor. When someone refuses your offer of a drink/date etc. then it is, usually, purely a consideration based upon base aesthetic principles, this person doesn't know the quality of person that you are, this opinion that someone else has of you is of no value and in no way is reflective of you as a person and what qualities you would bring to a relationship.

I would like to know a bit more about how you get on, good luck.
 
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Thanks, it never occurred to me that all those things might be going through a guys head. Thank you for your advice and for giving me another perspective :)

No problem. Yeah, we guys can be a nervous lot, we just put on a good show.
Yeah I think you're right. From talking to ppl I know who are very outgoing they literally can't understand how hard it is for a shy person to talk to ppl. And on top of that I do have social anxiety. So it's not that I just find it hard approaching ppl... I struggle to keep a conversation going and probably send out awkward cues. Unless I know someone and am comfortable around them I literally can't think of things to talk about with ppl unless it's work related or the weather haha.


Hey, no worries. Slow and steady wins this race. For example, I was painfully awkward in high school and could barely talk to girls. I even had to trick myself into asking a girl out once, true story. But, by small important steps I could talk to women like they were actual people and not these frightening machines that cause embarrassment. Now, I can mostly talk to women and have them not think I am awkward or shy at all! Crazy! Past Me would have never expected this! I have even given presentations to a crowd of almost 100 people! what! no fucking way, says Past Me!

The trick is just keep trying to talk to people, and you will get there eventually. Most people like to talk. Talk to everyone. Cashiers, the lady walking her dog, a guy line to get coffee, the person with a cool book, etc. Just talk and you will eventually get to a point where you realize nothing to incredibly terrible will happen.

You are doing awesome! Keep up the awkward and uncomfortable!
 
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Thanks for taking the time to reply, that definitely helps :) most of the comments, if not all, have really just gone to show me that thinking a guy doesn't want to talk to me is probably just all in my head. As I said earlier, the guys all seemed happy enough to talk to me... I guess my over thinking probably gets in the way of making the conversation last or go in a different direction.

I've had similar issues most of my life. Thinking someone won't want to talk to me, won't like me, etc. It's helped to ask myself, "what's the worst thing that can happen?" when approaching these scenes. It's also helped to not worry so much about keeping a conversation going...you don't know each other, so why expect anything at all? There's nothing wrong with it not going much past a few words exchanged. But I know all too well that it is far easier to write this than it is to be in that situation. We mostly jjust get in our own way, eh?
 
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Re: keeping a conversation going. Have you tried making a mental list of general questions to ask? Stuff that's not too personal of course. Folks love to talk about themselves and most are flattered by anyone showing interest in them. Having such a short list...maybe two or three ?s...."ready to go" so-to-speak, might help bridge any awkward pauses. It also might be worth noting that a sure sign of interest is them asking you questions about yourself. Or maybe they're just shy and made a list too..... ;-/
 
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I don't feel as though it's desperate for a woman to start a conversation with me, as a guy who's quite shy myself I wish it would happen more but I've usually got to be the one to initiate things. The times women have gone out of their way to talk to me first have been pleasant experiences.

Some guys are more confident and straightforward than others so they'll have no problems in expressing how they feel about you it's very easy to pick up on. If you want a man's number or social media page I suppose it would be totally cool to just casually ask for it and I doubt he'll say no.
 
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I feel the OP's pain. I'm introverted and pick-up lines make me cringe. Hence, not yet married. Have you tried dating apps? I can't say I love them, but I use them. Meeting in real life is always better of course, but who's to say you couldn't explore both avenues? For someone shy (I prefer "reserved") like me it definitely offers an advantage.
 

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Desperate? No. Not at all.

I can be utterly clueless as to flirting, though. I'm told I need to be hit with a 40-pound sledgehammer, to recognize I'm being flirted with.

Surprisingly enough, though, I do tend to get hit upon, reasonably often, even though I'm not so young as I once was. I must be doing something right. Dammed if I know what it is.
 

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Hey guys... so I'm very shy and have trouble talking to men in real life. Lately I've been trying to push myself out of my comfort zone and talk to men when the opportunity seems to present itself. I'd like your opinion on what you think when a woman initiates a conversation with you... do you think she's desperate?

Also the guys I've spoken to have seemed happy enough to speak to me. But I don't know if they are just being polite so I don't know how long to make the conversation go for... I'll generally just exit the conversation as I don't know what to do next.

If a guys interested, how do I know? And how do I go to the next step of getting him to ask me for his number or vice versa?

I really don't know how to answer the second bit, i'm really bad at maintaining conversations with the opposite sex usually beyond what is relevant to a given situation (i.e meeting at a bar, talk about drinking, um now what? lol)

I don't think it makes the girl seem desperate though, not unless you come on really heavy and deep and its obvious you want a relationship etc. If a guy is interested I think he will obviously keep talking (find the time for you, not just blow you off) and then if he turns the conversation to what he is doing (i'm in town just for... i'm just hanging out...) then maybe you can move towards asking for his number. I'd say keep chatting for a little while and make it very laid back, then ask for his details so you can continue the conversation??
 
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I am going to be specific here.

Learning to be a good conversationalist is somewhat art, but mostly just a skill. that can be learned.

Take a course in public speaking, there are likely ones in your area that won't be expensive. Talk about getting out of your comfort zone! This will move you faster than any other solution.

Get a video camera or your phone and vid yourself reading a book, the morning newspaper, or anything that gets you to speak.

Strike up conversations with ANYONE that interests you. Other women, the bartender, the sakeswoman, a waitress, person in line at the grocery store. Not easy, but in talking to other women, or non sexual circumstances with men, you will get better.

Be truly interested in learning something about the other person. Truly. Guys screw this up in chatting up girls a lot by talking about themselves way too much. Not to be too boastful but I can chat up attractive women with ease and get to phone numbers or bed quick mostly because i never talk about myself. I know me, I want to know YOU, and that extends to everyone, my mechanic, the plumber, the bartender, the guy having a beer next to me in a sports bar, and eventually the hot girl looking to dance in the club to whom I am attracted. However faked interest is easy to detect, be genuine, if the woman next to you has a cool haircut or really well done nails, ask her to whom she goes.

Talk to your mailman/woman. Force yourself. Work out at gym? Ask people about their workout plans and goals, particularly other women.

I was the geek in high school with the zits, no game, awkwardness and shyness you could cut with a knife. I did most of the above and now talking to people is just plain easy.
 
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