When Gay men put HATE on anything Bisexual

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by Tulsa, Nov 7, 2009.

  1. Tulsa

    Tulsa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NE OKlahoma - get 2 NWArk, SWMo, SWKs n OKC regula
    Too many times, I've gotten the ewwww or the ickkkk when I state outloud (or online) ANY kind of like for anything having to do with male/female sexin.
    Knew I wasn't 'str8' long before I'd ever heard the word 'gay' - growin up country is a true trip - but I will always check out the fine ladies; some even will turn my head. Can't see this ever ending (but, no, not dippin my stick back in there ladies - don't even try - that was when Ronnie was prez and it aint happenin again LOL)

    So......why is it a dude can't like anything at all bisexual without someone gay putting out some serious HATE. I can understand completely when str8 folks - includes you women - put HATE on 'gay men'> we goin to Hell; we trying to 'convert' you/ your b/f, yada, yada. What I don't understand is the minority "1 in 10" group slamming others that don't quite fit what they see as the "proper" (translated: 100%) mold for gay men.

    Have always wanted to know the reason for this - and this is the VERY first site that actually asks you to think about your sexuality......and ask yourself what percentage of each team applies to you personally. Figured if there was ONE place I could get some honest replies, it was here.

    Peace!
     
  2. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Since you say you can understand why straight people hate gay people, your question is undoubtedly the stupidest I have ever seen on this site.
     
  3. Tulsa

    Tulsa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NE OKlahoma - get 2 NWArk, SWMo, SWKs n OKC regula
    hey RedBoy2: coming from a queer dude that (a) obviously has NO life so he spends his time posting 600+ HATEthreads; (b) must be TOO dam fuggleeee to post any kind of picture of himself; and (c) is too dang cheap to donate to this site, I will give your tired viewpoint all the consideration it deserves. Your opinion has ALWAYS meant so much to me LMAO

    fyi: not only have you reinforced my position that totally gay men HATE other men who are NOT 100% gay (your 99% gayness is TOO lame btw), here's a clue: knowing WHY str8 folks can do and will HATE on gay men does not mean I condone agree or support that directed HATE; just means I understand the reasons behind it

    am wondering how many thousands of folks on here have slapped an ignore on you...
     
    #3 Tulsa, Nov 7, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2009
  4. biguy2738

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,356
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    Now now, play nicely or I'll be forced to take out my whips and pink feather boas :biggrin1:.

    I think that there's breakdown in communication that's taking place between the two of you.
    *looks at Redboy*
    Redboy, I think that Tulsa didn't express himself properly. I suspect that what he's trying to say is that he is able to understand where the homophobic behavior etc is coming from...BUT, he isn't implying that he condones or supports it in any way. In my instance and much as I'm bi, I can understand why a lot of gay folk have issues with bisexuals, but it doesn't mean that I am supportive of this approach, truth be told, I challenge it.

    *looks at Tulsa*
    And since Redboy misunderstood where you were coming from, he responded to what you had to say in the way that he did.

    Moving on...

    Tulsa, I think that you're asking good questions and I respect you for the way that you're taking the time to consider your sexuality and to better understand yourself. It says a lot about the kind of person that you are and I respect you for it.

    You're asking a very complex question because there are so many things that need to be factored into the mix...so this may be long and I will most probably overlook a lot of points. My response is based on a lot of discussions that I've had with gay guys, my own experiences of bi men and some of my own personal observations and opinions.

    I think that part of the reason why homosexuals have the kind of approach that they do is because of history. They were out there taking risks and facing all sorts of discrimination, victimization and abuse because of their fight for gay rights while we were in hiding...and now that gay rights is becoming more and more prevalent around the world, there's the feeling that we want to claim some of the rights for ourselves even though they weren't part of the "struggle". A therapist at an LGBT organisation in this country who does a lot of work with bisexual women and educates therapists about bisexuality, told me that it will take about another 50 years before bisexuality is accepted and acknowledged completely in this country...and it's not because of opposition but because we're in hiding...save for wanting to hookup for sex. This leads to all sorts of issues for us because the other side of the coin is that we're in hiding because of the misconception and discrimination that we experience. A lot of the misconception etc. is because of lack of education and understanding but that can't be attained because we're in hiding. And so the cycle becomes more and more vicious...

    There's the belief that we're greedy and undecided or in denial. I am able to identify where I think a lot of this comes from. I'm blown away by the amount of gay men that there are in my country who tried to ignore their homosexuality and opted to embrace the hetero-normative model of marrying a woman, having 2.4 kids, 2 cats and a dog, a car and a house with a white picket fence. However, their realities caught up with them and they just couldn't continue to live the lie...and it led to them coming out to their wives and getting divorced. I have no doubt that they endured soooooo much pain and angst in the process...and now they are forced to look on and bear witness to the kind of lives that we live where we cheat on our spouses and get to have our cake and eat it. I can understand why they look on and think, "That's just not right!!!!" However, there is the other side of the coin. A lot of us opted to get married etc. with the hope that we'd be able to push away our attraction to men; that we'd be able to rely on our attraction to women to get us out of our pickle. However, things can only be repressed for so long...and when they do, things have intensified a hundred fold. But the situation is very different because a gay guy being in a straight relationship would be unfulfilled on a lot of deep levels, but this isn't the case with us. There are areas where we are fulfilled and happy. There are attractions that we have for our wives. So we opt to come out and get divorced and then what? We opt to be in relationships with men? But what about our straight attraction? We end up in a mirror image of the situation that we were in before we got divorced. So it's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. The difficulty is that with monosexual orientations, things are relatively black and white but things are all sorts of layers of grey when it comes to bisexuality and sometimes there are situations where one can only opt for the lesser of all of the evils.

    Then of course, there's history... A lot of gay folk have had bad experiences with us. There's the situation where a bi guy shacks up with a gay guy and then ditches him for a woman. There are situations where we don't fully understand ourselves as bisexuals and gay guys are dragged into our issues. There are situations where gay guys are led on and when things become uncomfortable, we bail on them without so much as an explanation let alone, an apology. There's the closeted married bi guy who thinks that since he's closeted and the gay guy isn't, that he's entitled to screw the gay guy around whilst using his situation as a means of justifying the kind of treatment that he'd meted out. It's not that I'm trying to imply that we're bad (after all, I do bat for both teams) but I do think that we also need to face up to how we get things very wrong and people are getting hurt in the process.

    I do not see the biphobia of gay folk as being altogether bad. It serves as a challenge for us to pull up our socks. Because ultimately, before we complain about how we're being perceived and treated, we need to stop and look at how we conduct ourselves and hold it against what we're accused of etc....and see if there's any truth behind what we're accused of doing. After all, people are mirrors and the easiest way of identifying how we treat others, is to observe how they respond to us and our behavior.
     
  5. biguy2738

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,356
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    Okay, so you beat me to it. Serves me right after going all encyclopedia on you LMAO :biggrin1:
     
  6. NCbear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,433
    Likes Received:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Back in NC
    I agree with what biguy2738 said about the envy gay gays feel toward bi guys who are able to muster better "camouflage" in a heterosexist world by simply living an outwardly heterosexual life.

    But also I agree with the broken hearts many gay guys feel when bi guys ditch them for women. There's the same level of mistrust among straight women toward bi guys, and for much the same reason.

    I think, though, a third factor working as well: our culture's dichotomizing tendencies. We want to have everything expressed in terms of black and white (or gay and straight); we tend to be much less comfortable with shades of gray (or the spectrum of sexuality). As a culture, we want to be like little children, particularly with gender roles and sexuality--"Boys [or girls] don't do that!"--instead of like adults who recognize and appreciate difference--"No, some boys [or some girls] do enjoy doing that."

    Basically, I think it's ultimately a result of our immature culture.

    NCbear (who sees some changes occurring: for instance, some evidence of people's growing understanding that complex social problems are indeed complex and will require transformative, innovative, and/or entrepreneurial thinking to solve them)
     
  7. EagleCowboy

    EagleCowboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,031
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    137
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    TEXAS
    Oh, c'mon, NCBear!! It's not like Biguy2738 has a clue as to what he's talking about and he's not even bisexual. :eek: (I'm soooooooooooo gonna get it for this!! hehe :biggrin1:) I agree with you about everyone wanting everything to be black/white. It would make things *SO* much easier to deal with. But knowing human nature, we would probably find fault with everything being black/white if everything really WAS black/white.

    Actually, the truth is, Biguy2738 does and is. (with a little help from moi):rolleyes:

    I'm one of those true rare 50/50. I'm as gray as it gets. Right smack in the middle. I'm "centered", yeah, that's it. LOL. If I'm seeing someone exclusively, then all others can suffer, 'cause I just won't cheat. I am an exclusive!! :tongue:


    Tulsa, when I was living in Tulsa (the actual town, mind you) I ran into that a lot there. Seems most gay men had a problem with it and immediately assumed you were lowlife because of it and would cheat on someone at the drop of a hat. ANY hat. And there was no convincing them otherwise. They would continue to hate even when you were out of their sight. And it didn't matter if they didn't know you and had never met you. In their beady little hating minds, they knew you extremely well, which was justification enough to hate on you. While all this was going on, I had observed that the more aggressive the hater, the less formal education they seem to have and almost no common sense.

    On another site elsewhere a few years ago, I tried to start a discussion thread solely for us bisexuals to have some fellowship and discuss anything bisexual with each other and politely asked the gay men not to comment to say they didn't like bisexuals, that we were all cheaters, etc. And asked in the nicest way possible. I knew that was a mistake the minute I posted as I got immediately hit with a flamethrower by the gay haters. It's not like they couldn't start their own thread to say how they didn't like it. They just had to pollute mine.

    Well, the thread almost took off. But there was too many gay haters posting despite my efforts to make them go away, and they wound up scaring all the fish away. Unfortunately, I had to give up on it.
     
  8. rob_just_rob

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,037
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Nowhere near you
    I used to think that homosexuals would be more accepting of different sexual iterations than straight people were. I reasoned that because many gay people had experienced discrimination, they therefore would empathize with or relate to other groups that had also experienced discrimination due to sexual orientation or preference.

    Experience has disabused me of that notion. Sure, there are accepting and openminded gay people out there. And there are others who have a pathological dislike for any or all of women, bisexuals, transgendered folk, gays (if lesbian) and lesbians (if gay). Overall, I don't think homosexuals are any more tolerant of sexualities other than their own than heterosexuals are.

    In the same way, I've read and heard racist statements from people of African and Asian descent that are as bad as or worse than anything I've heard from white racists.

    I suspect that it relates to some kind of social pecking order. Lots of people don't want equality for all, they just want some other group they can look down on.
     
  9. invisibleman

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    9,976
    Likes Received:
    39
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Carolina

    I don't have any issues at all with bisexual men at all. I would have more issues with gay guys leaving me for another man. I have met more bisexuals and sometimes wish I were...but I am totally not bisexual.

    I don't have the urge to be with straight guys. Some gay guys HAVE TO have a straight guy. :rolleyes: I don't understand that. THAT is not me. I have had many handsome straight guys as friends in real life. I haven't had the jones to touch them or ravish them.

    I have met one bisexual guy who did break my heart...but it wasn't because he dated women. He had to leave because he lost his job. And he didn't want to be stranded in a tourist season town. He left for Minnesota for a better job.
     
  10. Tulsa

    Tulsa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NE OKlahoma - get 2 NWArk, SWMo, SWKs n OKC regula
    Wow - these on-topic VALID points of view have impressed me...and my happyazz duznt get impressed easily LOL

    Never really thought about the 'bad experiences' biguy wrote of, ncbear's 'shades of gray,' or the possible 'pecking order' from rob. Eagle gets mucho bonus points for just KNOWING what covered-wagon land is like...

    thanks yall

     
  11. Stephenmass

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,886
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    73
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston
    I think homosexuals are the least tolerant of others within their same community to be honest. I am not saying all whatsoever. What I am saying is I'm gay; I don't care if someone else is str8 or bi or whatever and don't expect to understand me anymore than I expect to understand them. That's how they are.

    Within the gay world itself, age is definitely discriminated against, sometimes race, and even how effeminate or non effeminate someone may or may not be. I love people of all walks of life regardless of their sexual desires and for what sex they may have those desires for. If they treat me well, I treat them well. Their sexuality is secondary to me; I could care less.
     
  12. dandelion

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    7,887
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    599
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Verified:
    Photo
    Curious question which surprised me. I'm gay. I don't hate bisexuals, or any other group. Perhaps that's just me, I don't go round hating people. Don't hate guys I know who have moved on to someone else, either. I think mostly when meeting someone bi I have been curious about sex with women. Though not interested in trying it, which is perhaps why I am curious to find out from someone who has. Mostly they have been unwilling to discuss it.

    If you are asking me to think up reasons for being annoyed with bi guys, well perhaps there is a certain tendency for those attached to women to be making a mad dash into gay territory and then running for cover again. If you are interested in someone for more than one time sex, then playing the part of the secret mistress can be trying. Though this may also happen with one half of a gay couple who is playing away. I take people as they come, but I do perhaps think bi guys see sex and their role in the proceedings differently. Gay sex is a meeting of equals: from what I hear men and women negotiating sex and relationships regard each other as a different species.

    One thing I don't like is hypocrisy. The sort of guy who becomes a respectable MP and passes anti-gay legislation despite sneaking away from his wife and kids once in a while for a romp with a guy. Anyone who falls into that category deserves everything he gets. This of course includes anyone gay who is doing the same. Perhaps this is the core of the problem, people perceived to happily play either side of the divide but who adopt sterotypical anti-gay attitudes in public. It is an easy thing to fall into even if you are (not obviously) gay just for an easy life in social situations.

    The id here invites you to state how gay or straight you are. I wasn't quite sure what to put. I think a guy could fuck just about anything if he is feeling horny enough including men, women, pillows, sheep, trees, anything at all. It doesn't mean you are necessarily sexually attracted to it, its just a handy tool. So I reckon I could have led a very unsatisfactory life married to a woman and have had some kids (had I wanted this), but it would not have made me any less gay. Or maybe unsatisfactory is too extreme, many people over the years have had marriages of convenience and good friends of whichever sex they were not lusting after. I don't know if people generally consider not being actively repelled by the thought of sex with one side or the other as defining you as bi.
     
  13. bek2335

    bek2335 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    East Coast
    I too am impressed with the thoughtful and interesting responses in this thread. I don't see any input here from women who identify as bisexual, so I will add my two cents. Although I have an affectional and emotional preference for women, I have a slight physical preference for men. So I have never really fit in easily in the lesbian world and certainly not in the straight world either. I avoid the "lesbian police" at almost any cost! I do agree that there is a specific and miserable pain associated with being dumped by a woman for a man, especially when the motive is purely to gain more social acceptance. Has anyone here ever seen the movie Lost & Delirious?
     
  14. lgtrmusr

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    326
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    432
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Baltimore (MD, US)
    Verified:
    Photo
    can't add much to dandelion's comment. sometimes guys just have sex with the available opportunity. guys who have been propositioned by transvestites don't necessairily feel gay if they respond by fucking the guy in the ass. And it is clear that some people find the image of intimacy with one sex or the other unacceptable.

    Beyone sex, is the issue of emotional closeness. We all know guys bond, and part of the bond is physical closeness, even physical intimacy, but without sex being necessary or desired. Sports team, mountaineering groups, military. Guys get close

    So on the gay, bi, str8 continuum, one dimension is certainly physical sex, but the second is the comfort a person might have in forming a close, emotional relationship with a person of whichever sex. For me the concept of sex with a willing partner is easy. but the concept of having a strong, supportive, exclusive emotional relationship with a guy is much harder to imagine.

    Thoughts on this guys?
     
  15. NEWREBA

    NEWREBA New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    452
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Cali

    This comment fascinates me. I have completely the opposite feeling. How could a person have sex with anyone just because they are willing? And of all things, how could having a strong, supportive emotional relationship with a guy be hard to imagine? Women do it all the time!!! I have to say there really is something basically out of whack with many males in our society. Sorry for the rash judgment. :mad:
     
  16. Tulsa

    Tulsa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NE OKlahoma - get 2 NWArk, SWMo, SWKs n OKC regula
    I don't think that's rash at all.
    It's a valid viewpoint and the ONLY thing I ever asked when posting this topic was THAT.
     
  17. Rowan Ravenseed

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Messages:
    500
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Kilda East, Melbourne, Australia
    Verified:
    Photo
    All right so i get your point Tulsa btw hot damn yumo dude.

    I didn't read all of the posts so this may have all ready been said.

    Personally I find Hetero-phobia as repugnant as Homophobia (and yes there is such a thing as hetero-phobia)

    Hetero-phobia is when gay men or woman makes comments like "eeew pussy yuck" or "im a faggot why do i want to see pussy" or term some gay guys use to describe heterosexuals such as "breeders"

    I think it comes from a misplaced sense of equality...... some gay people think that its acceptable to display prejudice against heterosexuals because we suffer prejudice ourselves.

    Much like you tulsa i don't find any-thing unattractive about a woman's anatomy nor do i find heterosexual act repugnant in any way in fact i enjoy a lot of heterosexual porn.

    I think that "pussy haters" are just a retaliatory response to the prejudice we face as homosexuals.
     
  18. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Fellas, I just checked this guy's profile. Here is a quote from it: "usually hang with brothas only," whatever this means (black guys?, other Native Americans?)

    Might be an indication of someone less than open, i.e. not comfortable hanging with people who don't fit his exact specifications, perhaps exposing the hypocrisy of his entire original question.

    Some little crybabies can't handle it when just everyone in the world doesn't love them.

     
    #18 B_RedDude, Nov 8, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
  19. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    California
    Perhaps I should have just said, more gently, that if you can understand straight hate, you should be able to understand all other forms of hate as well, making your question totally unnecessary. Just use your brain.

    And Tulsa, you're right. I'm absolutely hideous looking. It's so bad, actually, that I never even go out in public.

     
    #19 B_RedDude, Nov 8, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
  20. Tulsa

    Tulsa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NE OKlahoma - get 2 NWArk, SWMo, SWKs n OKC regula
    OK.....one case in point: know of a Latino bud, just back from deployment in that desert hellhole - pretty much know, after all these years, how he swings and I wud make an educated guess of him as a 70/30 str8/gay split. He would LIKE to settle down with a lady, picket fence, 2.4 kids. He DUZ, however, like the every 6mos (give or take) playtime with a guy...and I advised him to come clean with that 411 to any lady he was TRULY going to get serious with BEFORE any marriage and/ or rugrats. The probs he's relayed to me:
    (a) when he starts to get to kno a woman (methinks it's like 10th date, give or take?), he mentions this, ummm, quirk in his personal preferences; suddenly, she's outta there, not calling or texting back, history. I don't know of any sage advice to pass along to him on this issue.
    (b) he would like to have a long-term emotional n sexual deal with a man...with the stuff stated in (a). he duznt care to kiss men, don't think he'l EVER be comfortable suckin on a dude's bone - EVER. [for brevity's sake, lets call these 'limitations'] he's easy on the eyes, an MP with a sort of build like a bull, mid-30s. every RARE (once/year?) time he ventures to a 'gay' club he seems to think he's going to find a long-term relationship there, and then complains to yurs truly that all the gay dudes at the clubs just seem to want sex. [I have kept my trap shut on this point thankuverymuch] his online experiences, at the surface, tend to start out deeper, but have similar results. **To those men he has eventually felt comfortable with to xplain his limitations - going back to pre-Internet days even - he has stated they've actually gotten nasty with the "you're f---ing confused", "you're playing games," etc. the HATE has been more detailed than i've written here, but ya get the gist**

    The women have just gone or faded away when they discovered he wasn't 100% str8. The men, for the most part, have been VERY vocal with their anger when they've discovered he wasn't 100% gay.

    Are his expectations realistic? personally, I don't think so, but i'v chosen not to tell him my viewpoint; his 12yr+ friendship means a lot (he's a helluva pool player and we ALWAYS win at darts LOL).....and I guess it all COULD happen the way he wants it to. some day. maybe. Do I think he's "confused"? Not at all - he's made it clear what he wants. (whether or not I agree with what he wants isnt and wasnt the topic here - it was the HATE from gay men)

    That's one example I know of - just in this area of the world. Yes, I've had my own personal share of the HATE, but nothing compared to what he's been dealing with (I'm guessing) most of his life. Your views, plez.

    THANKu to the ladies who have taken the time to offer their views - never expected that AT ALL. Truly amazing.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted