When Gay men put HATE on anything Bisexual

Charles Finn

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I am a bisexual and I prefer guys to girls i am very open about it.
always have been.
in my younger days I fooled around with girls and even had a few girl friends but never went all the way with them.
then one night at a party an ex girlfriend and still friend wanted to go all the way I turned her down 3 times but was still turned on
the 4th time she put a condom on me and rode me for all I was worth
I loved it still prefered guys and caught some good ribbing from all my gay friends.
I also feel I played my part in being very out in the 90's it was cool to have a bf with a girlfriend or if you were a girl for your bf to have a bf or fb
 

biguy2738

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It's not like Biguy2738 has a clue as to what he's talking about and he's not even bisexual. :eek: (I'm soooooooooooo gonna get it for this!! hehe :biggrin1:)
BITCH! :biggrin1: And to add insult to injury, you got it all messed up. I'm a bisexual lesbian in a man's body, remember? :eek: LMAO

Actually, the truth is, Biguy2738 does and is. (with a little help from moi):rolleyes:
Actually....it was more than just a little help from you, you were a big help...in sooooo many ways. And I will always be thankful to you because I don't know where I'd be today, had it not been for you. :smile:

So on the gay, bi, str8 continuum, one dimension is certainly physical sex, but the second is the comfort a person might have in forming a close, emotional relationship with a person of whichever sex. For me the concept of sex with a willing partner is easy. but the concept of having a strong, supportive, exclusive emotional relationship with a guy is much harder to imagine.

Thoughts on this guys?
You've raised a very good point, lgtrmusr.

When it comes to the bi continuum (considering that it's anything from 1% attraction to men & 99% attraction to women, right across to, 99% attraction to men and 1% attraction to women) there's also the reality of bisexuality being experienced in a myriad of ways. Some bisexuals are monogamous and the primary relationship that they're in is not dependent on the gender of their partners while others need to have a primary relationship with each gender for these relationships to run concurrently. Some bisexuals only need sexual release (there's no attraction to men, they're only after a penis and an orgasm) and other bisexuals experience emotionally; there's the need for emotional intimacy to be present ie a deep emotional connection...and to a large degree, the emotional intimacy is of greater importance and a bigger need than the sexual aspect of things.

I experience bisexuality like this and I can say that being bi-affectional feels like a bi-affliction most of the time.

I'm going to develop what I'm talking about in my response to NEWREBA's comment.

This comment fascinates me. I have completely the opposite feeling. How could a person have sex with anyone just because they are willing? And of all things, how could having a strong, supportive emotional relationship with a guy be hard to imagine? Women do it all the time!!! I have to say there really is something basically out of whack with many males in our society. Sorry for the rash judgment. :mad:
The thing is, NEWREBA, I think that it's very clear that there are big differences between men and women. It's not about men being out of whack with society, it's about the differences that there are between genders.

Women tend to be nurturing whilst men tend to be protectors and it means that we operate from places that are different to those that women operate from. It may sound chauvinistic, but it isn't. Within the realm of developmental psychology (a discipline that focuses on the biological, psychologica, sexual and social development of a person, from conception right through to old age and death) we find that the child undergoes psycho-sexual development (along with other areas) between the ages of 2 and 6. This is the most crucial stage of the child's sexual development. It's when the child establishes his/her sexual identity and it starts with the development of gender identity. The child becomes aware of men and women, and their differences. It leads to an awareness of masculinity and femininity. And through all of this awareness along with the child's experiences of men and woman, the child develops his/her gender identity. Consider who the child would experience the most nurturing from and factor in that the child will determine whether or not he/she is of the same gender of that person (the mother). A lot of approaches and behavior is determined during this phase of development.

By the time that the child reaches adulthood, it's a relative norm that women are able to establish emotional attachments with men and women with greater ease and that it takes place much quicker than it does with men. There are instances where men also have a high emotional intelligence but it isn't part of the norm. Men normally are not emotional beings. We do not develop emotional attachments quickly and easily and it takes a lot of work to relate with another person on an emotional level. The reason why men develop close bonds with other men in the military, mountain climbing etc. is because there's a great demand for trust to be present and with trust comes the opportunity to be more open to other men.

This is the reason why heterosexual relationships tend to have a greater survival rate that homosexual relationships (I am now talking about men). Because women compliment men. The nurturing and emotional intelligence of a woman makes it easier for a man to open up and respond to her emotionally. Consider that we are mirrors of each other because of the way that we respond to the approach of the other. So if one guy is stand offish or has emotional walls up around him, the other guy will respond similarly which means that it will take longer and require hard work for the walls on both sides to come down.

As I've mentioned, things are different when one of the partners has a high emotional intelligence, though the experience of relating deeply with a man with walls around him stands to be tough and painful for him. But this isn't a norm. Most times, one of two factors are at play in the male child developing such an intelligence. He is either raised in a household where the father is nurturing and thus this aspect is included in the establishment of the child's gender identity, or else he was abused as a child.


I'm absolutely hideous looking. It's so bad, actually, that I never even go out in public.
....does that mean that I can kidnap you and keep you in my studly chamber? :eek: :biggrin1:
 

biguy2738

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pretty much know, after all these years, how he swings and I wud make an educated guess of him as a 70/30 str8/gay split. He would LIKE to settle down with a lady, picket fence, 2.4 kids.
There are a lot of factors to be considered, Tulsa...and I need to point out that I may be missing some marks because (and this is at the risk of sounding dense LOL :biggrin1:) you aren't very clear in the way that you're expressing yourself at times.

One of the biggest things that every bisexual needs to do, is to invest enough time in understanding oneself and identifying how one's bisexuality is impacting oneself and stands to impact one's future.

One of the biggest reasons why so many relationships go down the tubes is because regardless of whether one is in the gay, straight or bi world, there's the tendency to ascribe to what can be termed as a "hetero-normative model". You expressed it in what you said. There's the belief that in order to be in a relationship, things need to eventually lead to the model of marrying a woman, having 2.4 kids, 2 cats and a dog, a car and a house with a white picket fence. Gay folk tend to alter this slightly...in teh sense of marrying another guy, not having kids but having 2 cats and a dog, a car and a house with a white picket fence. The thing that is overlooked is the high divorce rate that's experienced worldwide...because it's an indication that this model is flawed, and I suspect that it's because it is based on life in the 60's; it isn't aligned with how we experience life today.

Bisexuals are faced with a bigger challenge in this regard, because we're caught in a world with monosexual norms and values...and we tend to trip ourselves up even more by attempting to ascribe to this hetero-normative model. It's impossible to ascribe to monosexual norms and values when our makeup is contrary to that. It would be like expecting a chicken to bark. So it's critical for each and every bisexual to understand how they are experiencing their bisexuality along with how it impacts them; how they forsee it impacting their relationships and future in light of the kind of needs that need to be met. And from their, it's important to establish one's own personal normals, values and beliefs system. As we've mentioned in our previous posts, there isn't any black and white any more...it's all layers of grey and with it needs to be the awareness that at times, the best that one can do is to opt for the lesser of all of the evils. Unless your friend starts off by addressing things in this way, I suspect that he's going to encounter a lot of difficulty in having loving relationships.

He DUZ, however, like the every 6mos (give or take) playtime with a guy

*SNIP*

(b) he would like to have a long-term emotional n sexual deal with a man

he duznt care to kiss men, don't think he'l EVER be comfortable suckin on a dude's bone - EVER. [for brevity's sake, lets call these 'limitations']
I take it that you're saying that he has a problem with kissing a guy and performing oral sex on him, am I right? If this is the case, what does he want to do with a guy? What is looking for/what expectations does he have?

From what I'm able to understand from you, I'm getting the feeling that there are issues that he may not be aware of; there's a contradiction of sorts at play. I can tell you that as a norm, bi men who seek out an emotionally intimate relationship with other men don't have problems with emotional intimacy ie they'll thrive on kissing, hugging, holding hands etc. It would almost be the next natural step once the emotional connection has been established.

This tells me that he either hasn't fully accessed how he is experiencing his bisexuality but I think that it's highly probable that there's a level of homo/biphobia that lies beneath the surface. Bear in mind that this plays out in different ways. I can either be completely repulsed or put off by gay/bi folk or certain behaviors like kissing etc. Or I can be open to gay/bi folk and their intimacy....just as long as they don't come anywhere close to me. What I'm trying to say, is that he may be put off by the idea of kissing a guy etc. because "what does it say about me if I do?" Does this make sense to you?

A third option would be that when it comes to the emotional aspect of things, all that he's really after is ordinary male bonding...which something that a lot of straight men want as well...so this has nothing to do with his bisexuality. However, what he experiences is what's called "Hedonistic Bisexuality" where there's no attraction to a guy, there's no need to relate deeply with a guy...all that he wants is to meet, play, orgasm and leave. And there's the possibility that he's got these two very different needs mixed up and they've been lumped under the bi umbrella.

A final option (and I've seen this at play in a lot of bi men) is that he is an Emotional Bisexual. He needs to have a deep emotional bond with a guy and this need is so great that there isn't any need for any kind of physical contact to be present in the relationship. But what about the sexual side of things, then? Well, I've encountered a lot of bi men who would have the occasional hookup. When I shared my suspicion that they're emotional bisexuals, it was met with opposition. In most instances, they later returned and told me that they'd just come to realise that their sexual activity with men had absolutely nothing to do with sex; that they were using sex as a means of feeling emotionally close to a guy...even if it came from a superficial place.

But for a contradiction to be present like this...where he wants an emotional relationship with a guy but he's closed to the idea of physical intimacy....something isn't right. He needs to spend time with himself in an attempt to figure it out. I suspect that he may have drawn conclusions very early in his bi-discovery which has closed him off to realising important things, which is why there are almost holes in his needs/approach. Don't be alarmed because this occurrence is rather normal, he just needs to start examining things again with a mindset of not taking any of his previous conclusions for granted.

I think his present situation is a big cause for things blowing up in his face when he comes out as being bi....that his understanding is affecting his approach....and his approach is the determining factor (in some respects) of how things will play out afterwards.

Bisexuality isn't understood and there are a lot of misconceptions about it. I have no doubt that it will lead to questions....questions that he hasn't been able to answer for himself, let alone for anybody else. This would lead to insecurity and possible mistrust ("is he hiding things from me/too scared to give me the full truth?"). How is he breaking the news? Is he sharing deeply about what being bi is all about, how he experiences it etc?
 

biguy2738

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What he's experiencing with gay guys comes as no surprise to me at all...and once again, it's an indication of where he is at with his bisexuality... Consider a lion coming across a herd of deer....which deer will the lion choose to hunt? If a place has a lot of guys looking for a shag...they don't care about the personality or anything to that effect, they want a "hit and run" experience, who will they opt for? Superficially, yup, always the hotties first, but after that, they know that they'll be more likely to score with the uncertain ones....and believe me, you can smell it from a mile away.

I have no doubt that if he better understands himself, it will lead to him being clear about what it is that he wants and what boundaries are in place...and this will be reflected in his approach which means that he will attract like-minded peeps to him.

His online experiences also don't come as any surprise, and the reactions are justified. I had a profile on ManHunt for over a year. My blurb made it clear that much as I am bi, I am NOT confused and I am very clear about what I am looking for and what kind of person I would like to meet. It tended to keep the "iffy" characters at bay. What one opts to use as a profile pic also has an impact on what kind of crowd one attracts. If I see a dick pic being used, it's very clear that the person is more focused on sex. If I see a bulge pic...it tells me that there's less of a focus but the sexual aspect is still close to the top of the food chain. A fully clothed body pic tells me that the person is looking for something much deeper than a hit and run hookup; that he's interested in the other person as a whole. Then there are the occasional pics of the eye, lips or hands etc. This tells me that the person has a depth to him; that he's a deep thinker and an emotional depth to him as well. Three guesses who I, as a bi-affectional person, am more open to talking to?

With that being said, I've also encountered a lot of gay and bi men in my country who don't REALLY know what they want. I've dealt with a gay guy who, in his profile, spoke about how he doesn't do the copious message deal. Yet, with me, he couldn't stop messaging me and eventually complained about how I'm the only person willing to talk to him and know him as a person ("UUUUH Mary, quit complaining and read your profile" LOL) In the instances where guys with dick etc pics contact me, I'm very blunt and forthcoming. I tell them immediately that I appreciate their taking the time to contact me, I ask them to forgive me for my bluntness but I am loathe to waste their time and I then talk about how I don't do the random/nameless/NSA hookup deal because it's not how I'm wired....that for me, I'd much sooner just talk to someone for the sake of talking to them or for us to be platonic buds than to opt for that kind of approach. In most instances, much as they'll reply and admit that their motivation came from wanting casual sex, they were impressed by my honesty and the fact that I know what I want and am clear about it....and that they'd like to chat if I was up for it. I've made wonderful friends because of this....and it didn't lead to sex either...they have always displayed respect with me.

Not being forthcoming about what he wants...and knowing that he's in an environment that's driven by sex, does to a large degree imply that he'd been leading them on and creates the impression that he doesn't know what he wants. Much as they may be expressing their anger about him not being 100% gay, I suspect that it's displaced. They're angry because they invested time and possibly emotions in him and he wasn't upfront about what he is about and is looking for.

All of the best!
 

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bigguy, I wish you lived nearby. I'd love to have a cup of coffee with you and talk. You are bright and interesting.
 

bek2335

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I agree with you Tulsa. I'd like you to come along for coffee as well. (If we meet halfway it will probably be someplace in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.)
 

EagleCowboy

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Oh, no ya don't!! I gotta be in on that meeting too. And out in the middle of the Atlantic is BERMUDA!! Let's get going!!

Redboy2: Well you've made it clear that you can't handle being wrong by your responses. Ya done lost dude. Give it up. One other thing: Native Americans are NOT "brothas". To suggest otherwise will get you seriously hurt from other Native Americans and vice-versa. Just calling this Cherokee white is feuding words. :mad:

Biguy2738: Did it ever occur to you that you tend to speak in whole encyclopedias? Not that that's a bad thing. :biggrin1:

Tulsa: I keep thinking that we've met before but only briefly. Your pic looks awfully familiar to me.
 

dandelion

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OK.....one case in point: know of a Latino bud.... He would LIKE to settle down with a lady, picket fence, 2.4 kids. He DUZ, however, like the every 6mos (give or take) playtime with a guy...he mentions this, ummm, quirk in his personal preferences; suddenly, she's outta there, not calling or texting back, history.

...he duznt care to kiss men, don't think he'l EVER be comfortable suckin on a dude's bone - EVER.

... every RARE (once/year?) time he ventures to a 'gay' club he seems to think he's going to find a long-term relationship there, and then complains to yurs truly that all the gay dudes at the clubs just seem to want sex.

... he has stated they've actually gotten nasty with the "you're f---ing confused", "you're playing games," etc. the HATE has been more detailed than i've written here, but ya get the gist**

Right then, to consider the case of someone not simply Bi, but not comfortable about it. My reaction to someone like this rather depends. Anyone in a place where people are looking for sex but who doesn't want to play, shouldn't be suprised if they might not appreciate this. People are after all sorts of things, but almost certainly not hassle. I just get that sinking feeling when a guy's hangups are getting in the way. If youre in a place like that, it wasn't because you fancied having a nice philosophical chat.

As to having a steady relationship and then slipping out every six months, it doesn't seem to me it makes a difference which sex the guy is slipping out to. If the permanent partner is expecting fidelity, then either way will be a problem. And telling someone up front that you plan on doing this? However, i do see a difference in a way. If a couple is happy having an open relationship then they may have agreed to invite someone else in or separately play away. As a gay guy, this makes more sense to me if a partner wants to have sex with another guy. Because like as not I would want to too, and I understand the attraction. Whereas, if he wants to go off with a girl, then I might understand abstractly, but not by feeling it. Its a matter of being on the inside of the conspiracy, or excluded on the outside. I don't know quite how this situation works if it is a guy-girl couple, because then they might both appreciate the company. But the other post above,

NEWREBA said:
This comment fascinates me. I have completely the opposite feeling. How could a person have sex with anyone just because they are willing?

maybe suggests that women don't quite get the sex for the fun of it and nothing else-thing.
 

bek2335

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OK, EagleCowboy, I'll make sure there's a place for you at the table. The Bermuda thing is the best idea yet!
 

Tulsa

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ok....I will do my own personal deal with respect to this topic: in the real world, yeah, I am very ok with slurpin on a dude's bone, but if you askd me and I felt you really wanted to know I'd give the truth: given a choice, i'd much rather do the oral bit on a woman (provided it's fresh down there, can't do the funk with either men or women). when it comes to the nastyazz vids out in Webland?: seven times out of 10 I will view M/F sexin clips versus M/M ones - just a preference. (ok some honesty: sometimes I do view these JUST to see if there's that gawdawful music in the background, to see if the participants are truly INTO it, if they took the time to buy some friggin high-wattage lighting LOL

biguy: u just keep doin yur cool posts - we will GET what yur saying. it may take us another cup of coffee TO get it, but we will.


Eagle: CDIB is Muscogee (Creek) - been round here forever - i'm usually the dude crackin jokes and everyone is hangin round laughin til their ribs hurt (the comedy is a defensive mechanism for xtreme shyness in large groups - NOT the topic for here LMAO). feel free to give a personal shout out
 

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As a individual person, I can only speak for myself.

I don't hate bisexual men, I just never consider them a top priority on the list. That however, doesn't mean I won't date one. If he can show me that I'm the only loved and there are no women or men on the side vice-versa, then it's all good.

In the superficial gay world, we already have competition with other gay men for a partner and this type of competition is just dirty. Now if we consider dating bisexual men a top priority, then we have the other 50% population of mankind to deal with. The problem arises by the definition of bisexuality. Bisexual people LOVE BOTH MEN and WOMEN (or certain aspects) otherwise this term doesn't make sense. The worst scenario for a straight or gay person is that their partner actually left them hanging because they want another partner of the opposite sex, which is extremely hard to understand for me. I certainly don't want to insecurely deal with the additional questions, "Will my lover dump me for a girl? Will my lover screw around with women?" I already have to insecurely question that for the men side.

Consider this, when I date a guy and the guy dumps me for another guy, I can understand that easier. I can see the qualities of that guy or that, that guy really treats him better. I can accept that I lost. But when it is for a someone with the opposite sex, then it's "what the fuck," given that the assumption of men and women are different are used. I look at men and women as different types of people that men and women think differently. Maybe in the bisexual world, men and women are similar and held to the same partner standards. I don't know.

Then there is this dreadful question back at ya, "Why don't you prioritize dating bisexual men or women then?" Perhaps, you will ask the same insecure questions I would when I date a bisexual man.
 

biguy2738

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bigguy, I wish you lived nearby. I'd love to have a cup of coffee with you and talk. You are bright and interesting.
Thanks Bek and believe me, the feeling is mutual. You sound like a lovely and intelligent lady, so it would have been AWSUM to meet up for coffee and chats <--- Note: in plural :smile:

Biguy2738: Did it ever occur to you that you tend to speak in whole encyclopedias? Not that that's a bad thing. :biggrin1:
EagleCowboy aka SugahNips :biggrin1: I don't speak in whole encyclopedias, it comes in encyclopedia sets. LOL. And you, of all people, shouldn't be surprised. :rolleyes:

biguy: u just keep doin yur cool posts - we will GET what yur saying. it may take us another cup of coffee TO get it, but we will.
Thanks Tulsa. You're very brave LOL but I'm happy if my posts are helpful.

...and be careful of EagleCowboy: He may charm the clothes off from you :biggrin1::eek::biggrin1:
 

biguy2738

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Consider this, when I date a guy and the guy dumps me for another guy, I can understand that easier. I can see the qualities of that guy or that, that guy really treats him better. I can accept that I lost. But when it is for a someone with the opposite sex, then it's "what the fuck," given that the assumption of men and women are different are used. I look at men and women as different types of people that men and women think differently. Maybe in the bisexual world, men and women are similar and held to the same partner standards. I don't know.

Then there is this dreadful question back at ya, "Why don't you prioritize dating bisexual men or women then?" Perhaps, you will ask the same insecure questions I would when I date a bisexual man.
You raised very valid points Plumbr. :smile: I don't see anything wrong with the questions that you're asking; they're good and they ARE necessary.

I met a really amazing gay guy just over a month ago and there was an attraction. We've connected very deeply and he's a lovely human being.
At one point, he told me that he's been asking himself if he'd be willing and able to share me with somebody else (because of me being married). He told me that he didn't think that he'd have the emotional maturity to deal with a situation like that. I told him that in instances like mine, where I'm married, the most important question that he ought to be asking himself is: "If I'm a self respecting gay man, why should I invest all of myself into someone who's able to give me parts of himself in return?" After all, when one removes them rose tinted lenses from one's eyes, it's not a fair situation for him to be in. Period.

I think that the one important thing that needs to be remembered is that not all bisexuals are polyamorous...and that there are some who are stable in their relationships in the sense that they won't be in one and then feel a pull to move to the other side. A lot hinges on how well the individual knows himself and his openness to the other person.
 

hud01

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Consider this, when I date a guy and the guy dumps me for another guy, I can understand that easier. I can see the qualities of that guy or that, that guy really treats him better. I can accept that I lost. But when it is for a someone with the opposite sex, then it's "what the fuck," given that the assumption of men and women are different are used. I look at men and women as different types of people that men and women think differently. Maybe in the bisexual world, men and women are similar and held to the same partner standards. I don't know.
I actually look at it the opposite. If I were dumped by a woman for another woman, there really wasn't much I could do because she went for a set of equipment and chromosones that I don't have.
 

Tulsa

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hud: raise a good point - if yur relationship ends, and the other person leaves to be with someone of the same sex, it's (maybe) easier to accept n deal with? the 'new' person has qualities the "ex" now enjoys?

so...ummm, it's more difficult when woman leaves a woman to be with a man? or more difficult when a man leaves another man to be with a woman? (short- or long-term; ya never kno IF it's "long term" til it IS lol) sorry, i just dont get that....but that may be where a lot of the HATE lies. maybe.
 

fortiesfun

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I think a lot about Marjorie Garber's assertion that "bisexual" isn't a category, it is a category buster. It renders the gay/straight dichotomy, if not invalid, then at least very questionable. I'd say the short answer to the OP's question might well be that all people who are heavily invested in dipolar world view (and that can be either "gay" or "straight" people) might be very threatened by the existence of a group of folks challenging the paradigm.

Here is one more reason: Research shows that most bisexuals are not involved simultaneously with both sexes. There are a few menage-a-trios types out there, but they are a very small minority. The rest of us alternate between sexes, or primarily identify with one orientation but occasional experiment elsewhere. That can make us seem inconsistent (and therefore untrustworthy) to those who steadfastly maintain a singular orientation. Of course, they made an unspoken bargain with us to which we did not agree, but it doesn't make it any less powerful in their heads.
 

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Points
163
Location
midwest
Sexuality
100% Gay, 0% Straight
Gender
Male
i don't hate bi guys. i just don't want to have sex with or get involved with them. way too much work.

being friends is fine with me, however.