When it comes to God

[jonb]

And yet the missionaries beat it into my ancestors, when they weren't busy boinking Indian children. Ye will know them by their fruit, Javier.

 

[GottaBigOne]

Madam, I stand corrected. It was wrong of me to equate "Love thy neighbor as thyself" with the golden rule, the two are different, again I'm sorry. I hate to make mistakes as much as other people hate to be misunderstood.
This still did not start with jesus however, you can find it as well in The Old Testament: "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord." (Leviticus 19:18)
But think about what the former means. Shouldn't love be earned? Wouldn't it be bad for it to be automatic? Certainly there are people who are not deserving of our love, why reward them when they are not worthy. When you reward bad behaviour you encourage it. I know what is trying to be accomplished is a more harmonious society, but this can be achieved with tolerance, not just love.
From "Atheism: The case against God" By George H. Smith:

His second commandment, the Bible tells us, is that we should "love" our neighbors as ourselves. Aside from the content of this pronouncement, which is rather difficult to make sense of, the entire notion of commanding feelings in and out of existence is ludicrous. Love is an emotional response to values, and if we do not percieve the necessary values in many people, how are we to force the emoition of love? Jesus does not say. He simply threatens damnation for those who disobey.
(italics added)

 

[madame_zora]

Gottabigone, (I love writing that, lol) I find it easier to take a humanistic approach on loving my neighbor. We all share the same race (human), the planet, the air. I want the same good things for others as I want for myself- I want their children to be happy and healthy, for their lives to go well, etc. I call this "love" and I feel it for everyone, the human mass as a whole, until I have a reason to retract it from a certain individual based on an individual reason. For me, I would rather love wrecklessly and frivolously because I experience more joy that way. When I am stingy with my love, I do not experience life in the same abundant way. It's a personal preference, not something I can argue for in terms of logic- love is not a logical emotion! In many ways, I feel emotions in general defy logic, and that is one amoung many of the inconsistancies in life as a human being. I have not taken this stance because god said so, it is just how I've always felt, even before I knew about any Biblical teachings (I was raised Agnostic, I never saw a Bible until I was 17).

I have no answers to the questions that haunt mankind, I only know what works for me, and since even that changes consistantly I can confidantly state that I know very little. Socrates would love me!

 

[13788]

Javierdude22:

Originally posted by jonb@Jul 30 2004, 09:13 PM
And yet the missionaries beat it into my ancestors, when they weren't busy boinking Indian children. Ye will know them by their fruit, Javier.

Very understandable, but not all trees grow the same fruit. I feel as distant from those missionaries as I do from a Muslim.

 

[GottaBigOne]

Javier, tell me you did not just make a derogatory statement toward all Muslims. It looks like you did, but then again maybe you didn't. Clear it up please?

Madam, I understand what you mean.

 

[13788]

Javierdude22:

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jul 31 2004, 08:48 AM
I have no answers to the questions that haunt mankind, I only know what works for me, and since even that changes consistantly I can confidantly state that I know very little. Socrates would love me!

That is what sums me up basically as well...I wouldn't even wánt to know everything I think...might be unpleasant.

 

[GottaBigOne]

Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything.

 

[jonb]

Originally posted by Javierdude22+Jul 31 2004, 03:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Javierdude22 @ Jul 31 2004, 03:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jonb@Jul 30 2004, 09:13 PM
And yet the missionaries beat it into my ancestors, when they weren&#39;t busy boinking Indian children. Ye will know them by their fruit, Javier.

Very understandable, but not all trees grow the same fruit. I feel as distant from those missionaries as I do from a Muslim. [/b][/quote]
But all trees of the same variety grow the same fruit, unless they&#39;ve been grafted. The fact remains that these missionaries, along with those who actually slaughtered Indians, were given religious sponsorship. It&#39;s good to see you didn&#39;t do the "No True Christian" nonsense which Protestants typically claim when asked.

 

[madame_zora]

You know, this is the primary thing that drew me away from the church. I had (have) a pastor who is in my estimation truly an incredible man. He is outspoken yet humble, intelligent to a fault but not arrogant, sensitive but not wimpy, progressive in his thinking without being untrue to traditonal values. He is, to me, tha best the Christian world has to offer&#33; He has been personally a great source of inspiration because of his near-obsession with serving others, it has made me want to follow his example. But even this brilliant, well-rounded man has never been able to answer "What happens to the members of other religions?". He shrinks at the question, I know he doesn&#39;t want to believe in condemning them&#33; But the Bible leaves little room for doubt that it is the one and only way. This very often gives Christians a very self-righteous attitude and enables them to treat others in a contemptible manner that was never suggested in the bible. What about humility? If you are not there for others, what is your life really about? Why would anyone care so much about gay marriage when they are themselves in need of attention? Since "all sin and fall short of the glory of God", why is any one man&#39;s "sin" more important than our own? How can anyone call someone&#39;s lifestyle "sin" to begin with??????? If "Judgement is mine alone, sayeth the lord", then why do so many Christians feel the need for hate rhetoric, and to lesser degrees just being judgemental in the first place, when being judgemental is also a sin&#33; These are the questions I can&#39;t answer, and I can&#39;t remain in the church with the glaring inconsistancies. I know there are several gay members here who are devout members of various churches, and I would be interested to hear what their experiences are there. How does your Pastor/Priest view the gay issue, is it considered "sin"?

I don&#39;t know. Gottabigone, you say that just because we don&#39;t know everything doesn&#39;t mean we know nothing, and I guess that&#39;s true. It&#39;s just that the more questions I ask, the less confident I feel in my own answers. I have said it before, even things we view as absolute facts are subject to change with new information, so I just don&#39;t know how important it is (to me) to claim to know much, only to have to backtrack as I learn more. I heard once that a good formula for increasing knowledge is to listen as least twice as much as you talk. Since I talk so damned much, you can believe I listen to everything&#33; I hope to never stop learning, never stop questioning everything, including my own opinions. The lack of this perspective in Christianity -as I have experienced it- is what I find most unnerving.

Jonb, yes we do know a tree by the fruit it produces&#33; "Holy wars" and hate crimes are contemptible nomatter the reasoning behind them, how anyone can call this "Christian" behavior is beyond me. On the other hand, I can&#39;t go around feeling guilty about Hitler just because I am half German. I don&#39;t subscribe to his beliefs or condone his behavior. I think this must be what Javier meant by saying he felt distant from that, and using the example of "Muslims" as something he doesn&#39;t consider himself as being.

 

[prepstudinsc]

Originally posted by jonb+Jul 31 2004, 08:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jonb @ Jul 31 2004, 08:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by Javierdude22@Jul 31 2004, 03:04 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-jonb

@Jul 30 2004, 09:13 PM
And yet the missionaries beat it into my ancestors, when they weren&#39;t busy boinking Indian children. Ye will know them by their fruit, Javier.

Very understandable, but not all trees grow the same fruit. I feel as distant from those missionaries as I do from a Muslim.

But all trees of the same variety grow the same fruit, unless they&#39;ve been grafted. The fact remains that these missionaries, along with those who actually slaughtered Indians, were given religious sponsorship. It&#39;s good to see you didn&#39;t do the "No True Christian" nonsense which Protestants typically claim when asked. [/b][/quote]
Jon-
But those missionaries were as misguided as the televangelists that we see on TV today. Once they were away from their leaders (wherever they were from) they did whatever they felt like doing. It&#39;s a shame that Christians can&#39;t be more genuine sometimes, but they are human, and unfortunately, that gets many of us branded as being two faced. Well, some of us (like a former board member with a screen name beginning with "T") are that way, waffling opinions with the breeze, doing whatever they are told to do, never holding an opinion, etc. I doubt that she would have ever done anything wrong, but just her presence here flies in the face of the beliefs she espoused. I am a Christian and make no bones about it. I would die for my faith, too. However, I would never kill someone or rape or pillage in the name of my faith, because that goes against everything that Jesus did. The kind of Christians who just give blanket responses for everything when asked don&#39;t have a good knowledge or understanding of their faith or don&#39;t want to be challenged on their faith, like someone that we used to know on this board. Christian faith does have moral absolutes, but at the same time, there are things that do require us to use our heads and question things. God gave us brains to think, to debate, and to actually use them to figure out things for ourselves and not just blindly follow those who lead us. After all, clergy are just humans, and they can be wrong...

@ Gottabigone--As to Javier&#39;s comment, I don&#39;t think he was making a derogatory comment against Muslims, he was just saying that he feels just as removed from Muslims as he does from the Christian missionaries who raped and beat people in order to "convert".

 

[headbang8]

Originally posted by Javierdude22@Jul 28 2004, 09:25 PM


Yes, maybe you are right, or maybe you are not (Referring to every point made in above paragraphs)

sorry so long, but this is something I;m rather passionate about.

Good...me too

Jav, in one fell click of the "add reply" button, you&#39;ve turned yourself into an agnostic. Well done&#33;

headbang8

 

[madame_zora]

I think it takes a bit more than a misplaced keystroke, but funny nonetheless&#33;

 

[13788]

Javierdude22:

Originally posted by headbang8@Aug 1 2004, 06:00 PM

Jav, in one fell click of the "add reply" button, you&#39;ve turned yourself into an agnostic. Well done&#33;

headbang8

Almost&#33; Yet not quite...

 

[headbang8]

Originally posted by Pecker+Jul 23 2004, 02:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pecker @ Jul 23 2004, 02:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-headbang8@Jul 22 2004, 09:21 PM
P.S. I&#39;m getting on a plane this afternoon.  Do you think this post might have been a bad move?

Your post reminds me of the agnostic who tries to light up a cigarette and realizes he&#39;s out of matches. But he has an idea.

He holds the cigarette over his head, pointing it to the heavens and yells,

"God sucks&#33;" [/b][/quote]
...and nothing happens&#33; So the joke&#39;s on him, right?


May God (or whatever) bless you, Pecker&#33;

hb8

 

[Pappy]

Born and raised Baptist. Dad was a Baptist minister and yes that would be Southern Baptist although I do not agree with those teachings. To me most organized religions are just a bunch of hypocrites. I do believe in God and feel that I do not have to attend services to worship Him. To me church, anymore, is just a place where people congregate to show off their new clothes, cars and what not, it&#39;s long forgotten it&#39;s original purpose. Well I don&#39;t want to get started so I&#39;ll shut up now.

 

[KinkGuy]

And don&#39;t forget gathering together to decide who to hate, ostracize and condemn. Grew up in the Church of Christ (and I&#39;m long gone from there) and it makes Southern Baptists look down right liberal.

 

[jonb]

Originally posted by KinkGuy@Aug 8 2004, 02:37 PM
And don&#39;t forget gathering together to decide who to hate, ostracize and condemn. Grew up in the Church of Christ (and I&#39;m long gone from there) and it makes Southern Baptists look down right liberal.

Hey, have you seen South Park? In one episode, Chef protests the South Park flag. (It shows a black man getting lynched.) Anyway, there&#39;s a scene from a Klan rally. Anyway, a guy reads the minutes: "Last week we decided we hate blacks and Jews. A lot&#33;" Then they have a raffle and play "Who has the silliest thing on under his robe?"

 

[madame_zora]

Just had to bump this thread, I was re-reading it and had to laugh when I realized the town I live in is called South Park&#33;

 

[LuckyLuke]

Well, once again one of these religious polls doesn&#39;t have the one seemingly most common view represented.

I&#39;m an adeist. I am not an atheist or agnostic. Adeist, clean and simple.

Quite simply put, adeism means I don&#39;t believe in the existance of God. Period.

 

[AllHazzardi]

Luke:

Atheism=No God

A= No

Theo= God

Ism= Act or being
-



I myself, am Taoist, it seems a lot of people confuse it with being an Atheist religion, but it is not.