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Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by earllogjam, Feb 25, 2011.
What is the consensus on this issue considering you don't own any of the house?
I don't have an easy answer... when I moved in with my first lover we agreed that I would contribute to the household based on my income....
When my current lover moved in with me we developed the same equation. When we bought our new home I paid for it but at that point we were a team and we don't keep track of each dollar earned and spent. After a while every thing works out in the wash if you are in a committed relationship.
When you are starting a relationship it's probably best to set some perimeters... but I think it's important for a relationship especially in the beginning that one not feel like an innkeeper and the other not feel like a guest.
Hmmmm... Now that I think about it, there isn't a rule about it with me. I don't think about money in regards to my relationships much, so I've never considered it before. It seems to depend on who lived there first and the difference between our salaries.
I've only lived with 4 men as lovers, as opposed to living with them as just roommates. When TheBF moved in with me, I paid the rent, but when we got an apartment together, he insisted on paying the rent because he made a lot more money than me, and now we both pay the mortgage on a house. When a previous boyfriend moved in with me, I paid all the rent but he was also having money problems, and when I moved in with a different boyfriend in the past, he paid all the rent but he made a lot more money than me. Getting an apartment together with a another boyfriend, and we split the rent, but we made almost the same amount of money.
Well when my one-time partner moved in with me, the landlord insisted he go on the lease. Oh wait that's not quite the question you asked...but it's relevant because it was a good thing to have some sort of legal document to refer to, when things went south and, uh, he moved.
Later, a partner and I found a place together, but he had the funds so he bought it, he owned it, but we moved into it at the same time, and I paid an amount into our joint account each month (as did he) which went towards all shared expenses. Not sure if this was really "right." If we'd tried to get a mortgage together it might have worked better...or it might have not worked at all. It was weird not getting any equity in the place myself, but then I wouldn't have had the downpayment for it either.
Bottom line: each person has to work it out with each lover at the time. I would think it would be a little weird to move in with the lover and not expect to pay something. But then, it's also a little weird to pay something for x period of time and at the end of that time, not have anything to show for it in terms of equity.
Yes, this is definitely a tricky question as it is a lover rather than a partner but looking at things in black and white - I wouldn't feel comfortable if someone was paying for me, whether it be food, electricity or rent. I think I would have to pay my own way and hope that they aren't offended. At the very least I would insist on doing all the cooking, chores and cleaning. Although, my food would be more of a punishment!
What they said....
Just don't let money come between you.
Just on principal I do not think that a full grown adult should live anywhere for free. If someone moves in with a lover, even if they do not pay the full rent they should make some sort of financial contribution to the household.
Of course there are always exceptions to any rule but that is my general feeling about things.
Since I was 21 I've always owned the apartment building or home. The one time I did co-own the house, being responsible for half of the mortgage, I paid it off and let my other half continue to making what would have been his half of the mortgage payment to a joint account. He very -- as in VERY -- unexpectedly died and I went through 2 years of vicious litigation because my partner's name was on the title to our home. His mormon family (and the fact that his family was mormon is an important one) came after me as if I was their personal gold mine. However, they had disowned their gay son and never spoke to him while he was alive. I ended up losing about half of the effects of our lives together.
I have never made that mistake again. I OWN the home. The Squeeze is on a strict budget to help pay for his house expenses (food, utilities, etc.) and to put money in a savings account so he can buy his own home some day if and when he wishes. When things went sour (never really, really bad) with other relationships I owned rental property that my ex partners could rent if they wanted to. But they never got a break in the rent. I'm not into subsidizing ex lovers.
In relation to another thread about karma, my partner's mormon family who dragged me through Ewetaw's Fourth Disctrict Court trying to attach my entire life (because, of course, gay men and women are evil and deserve to be punished) had to pay their own legal fees. Still, they came into "our" home and, wielding a court order, arbitrarily attached anything and everything they wanted that was mine as well as those things my partner had purchased or that we had purchased together. I had to sell our home, giving them half. As for karma? This clan of "sweet spirits" from Burley, Idaho depended upon another mormon they trusted to do their taxes. Two years later I wrote to the IRS and asked them to audit my dead partner's family. Their "trusted mormon CPA" had fucked things up for them, as well as overcharged them for his valuable services. They incurred hefty fines in back taxes that they could not pay and eventually lost their few acres and drab little ranch house. But I'm sure they still have a ravingly strong testimony of their gospel that they are still righteous and the government has done them wrong.
So, if you don't believe in karma, you can certainly believe in me. While my parents were still alive my mother had convinced my father they needed to sell their home. She'd already convinced him to sell our family farm 10 or 12 years earlier. Local mormon businessmen took advantage of my father by presenting low-ball comps for similar properties. He probably lost about $200,000 of what our farm/ranch was actually worth. But these were "good" mormon church leaders giving him their sage advice. How could he go wrong?
When I discovered that my mother had enlisted her bishop (the lay pastor of her local church) to list my parent's home I came down on her shit so hard she never questioned anything I ever did again. I insisted she let the listing expire (which, fortunately it did because no one was buying homes at the time). I then had all of their property appraised and when my dear, devout mormon mother discovered her home was worth three times what her bishop had it listed for, she finally admitted that maybe I wasn't such a bad person as she had been told I was by her church. Dad dragged me off to a non mormon attorney who specialized in Senior Law and insisted that I be made executor of their Living Trust and Estate, and Wills. Good thing, too. They owned 50 acres in common with a step-sister, half-sister, a niece and a nephew. I found out which one of them (it was my step-aunt) who had decided to represent the family with selling that 50 acres. It took little convincing to get my aunt on board. She had let a development company keep her on 30-day extensions at $5,000 a month, until they decided to buy the property. And, of course, once they bought the property they would deduct all of those extension fees from the final sale. Once everything was handed over to me I patiently waited for the next "extension" signing. Imagine the mormon elders' surprise when they discovered they had to deal with an evil old, deviant, child-molesting, equal to a murderer homosexual if they really wanted to buy the property. Within less than six months I'd worked with another Realtor who specialized in commercial property and we sold off the remaining parcel of my grandparent's "family farm" for several million dollars than the $450,000 offered by the warm, humble, and caring mormon elders who -- unknown to my family or the local community leaders -- had formed the "devlopement" company stringing along my family.
Same thing happened upon the deaths of my parents. Their long-time best neighbors filed a notice of interest against my parent's property preventing a pending sale my father had signed and authorized to go through. That rodeo only cost $900,000+ in court fees, which the neighbors ended up having to pay out of the eventual sale of their adjoining property to a COSTCO. And again, two years later I wrote a letter to the IRS asking them to investigate the long-time "loving" mormon neighbors for tax evasion. And once again, if not karma, my actions came back to help them get bitten in the ass. After all, my parent's estate had to pay a fuck load of taxes upon the sale of their property after their deaths. What ever made the "sweet spirits" feel they didn't have to pay their fair share of taxes is beyond me. But that's Ewetaw.
The long and short of all of this is: 1. If you and your partner are serious, and one of you isn't just taking advantage of the other, draw up papers with the assistance of a reliable attorney who understands your specific needs. Create a document that outlines who pays what and who will stay in the home or apartment if you split up. Make certain you both write separate notarized directives that state your intentions, including what to do if things go sour. You can also write up an agreement that enforces you both to be nice to one another and work at remaining friends in the event your relationship doesn't work out. This protects you in several ways you might not expect.
If any gay or common-law married LPSG-er would like to ask me more about how to protect themselves from "the man" please PM me.
And you all be sure to have a good day; especially all of you who believe not all mormons are as duplicitous as those I've grown up among and known for 65 years. :biggrin1:
I have no intentions of EVER living with someone I date, screw or am romantically involved with. So if it happens that by some miracle that I was to totally lose my mind and live with someone you better believe that I am not paying a dime towards the rent or mortgage.
If you are moving in with a partner, lover, girlfriend, boyfriend, friend, etc, I think there should be some kind of agreement drawn up regarding who pays what, how things are going to work with bill paying. Even if you or your SO don't pay "rent" per se, you both should at least contribute to bills, whether it's telephone, Internet, cable, groceries, Gas and Electric or even cleaning supplies.
Because otherwise, that's not a partnership, that's freeloading and sugar daddy (or mamma) territory.
Money shouldn't come between people but if you are moving in w/someone then you are part of that household. Unless your SO is very rich and doesn't ask for a contribution you should have a talk about who does what and who pays for what. At the very least it would make you feel like you're pulling your weight around the place.
I work on a tried and trusted oral sex exchange system.
I didn't contribute financially at all when I moved in with my ex because I was on an extremely low income. However, I did do most of the cooking and cleaning.
I don't feel like there was a "freeloading" situation in my previous relationships because of things like this, even though there were a lot of different monetary arrangements. The bf who didn't pay rent or the bills, he cooked and did all the cleaning. The apartment was spotless, and he was trying to find work, too. When TheBF moved in with me, he still owned property far away, so even though we were living together, it was still like he was just staying over for the night but he just didn't leave. He lived with me, but he didn't move any of his belongings in with me, and then he more than made up for that time period when we got an apartment together and he took over all the bills. The previous bf that I moved in with who paid for the rent, we actually had an agreement whereupon we each paid the percentage of the combined rent/bills that was equal to each percent of our combined salaries, which seemed very fair since we worked the same number of hours and splitting things half/half would have meant that all my money was spent on the rent and bills, leaving me penniless and him with plenty of spare cash. It just worked out that he paid the rent, but I contributed to the utilities.
Yes, of course I would pay rent. Quite logical.
My Partner and I are lucky. His dad is a lawyer and drew up all of our documents. Pro Bono! First & Foremost was the power of attorney documents and wills. Neither of our families has ANY issue with us being a couple, hell after 16 years they better not! Still, we now live in the South and want to make sure that in the event something happens to one of us, we know that the person we want, will be making the decisions for us. Also, we do 50 - 50 on items like mortgage, bills, trips and such. We also have a hell of a joint account! That is the reason for the wils. Even though right now no family member has any issues we made sure neither one of us would get screwed out what we BOTH diligently worked TOGETHER for if the "God Forbid" incident should happen.
Currently I make 2.5 times what my partner makes and I do pay more for a lot of things. In the past it was him. We do not keep score either.... whats the point? If we did, to me that would make us roommates not partners. In a relationship, one is always going to make more than the other so why make an issue about it? We do not get hung up or worry about the financial bs. We have a plan in place so we are both protected in case of a split or something happens. That's my $ .02
It was rather like this with my ex and I. Technically, I still lived elsewhere, I just never left his house.
Midlife bear wrote:"The Squeeze is on a strict budget to help pay for his house expenses (food, utilities, etc.) and to put money in a savings account so he can buy his own home some day if and when he wishes."
Wow, that sounds like a super great solution...the owner of the place pays the mortgage, and the lover who moves in shares equally in all other expenses and puts money away to buy their own place someday. That's really smart. This eliminates the weirdness for the lover of "if you own it, and were paying it before, why do I pay now" and the weirdness for the owner of "you live here but don't pay anything" while also allowing the lover something to show for the financial contributions at the end.
Yes. If they refused to accept the money then try to pay for other things such as heating fuel, electricity, cable, food.
My partner and I had a % based on our income. It was not equal but it was fair. Now we make closer to the same amount so we split the bills. Worked for us.