Where is possible the gay marriage?

Lex

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The number one threat to marriage is divorce. Period. Divorce is the only thing that can undo a marriage,

No one else's marriage, to my knowledge, has ever threatened MY marriage.

Things like Britney Spear's 55 hour annulled marriage and subsequent second marriage and divorce threaten marriage more than enything else.

How seriously are we supposed to take the self-professed righteous about the sanctity of marriage when so many of them can't even get it right themselves?

This national debate is really an economic issue (companies don't want to have to extend benefits and incur additional costs) that has been carefully disguised as a moral and religious issue. They know how far they'd get if they said "We don't want to insure fags and lesbians." Nowhere.

Gay is the new (old) Black.
 

madame_zora

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Discrimination of all kinds is supported by the same stupid arguments. One kind is as easy to refute as the next.

Sadly, we need laws to make people just do the right thing, I wish people were more interested in being human beings than elevating themselves as judges of each other's worth. This is particularly disturbing to me among the supposedly religious- isn't their god big enough to do his own job?
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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You can never legislate morality or peoples behavior. If that were possible, we wouldn't have all the alcoholism, drug abuse, children born out of wedlock, and crime. Society has to hold people accountable and stop making excuses for them. I am a firm believer in neutering irresponsible human beings that continually litter. Sheesh one woman here has over 20 children.
 

madame_zora

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You can never legislate morality or peoples behavior. If that were possible, we wouldn't have all the alcoholism, drug abuse, children born out of wedlock, and crime. Society has to hold people accountable and stop making excuses for them. I am a firm believer in neutering irresponsible human beings that continually litter. Sheesh one woman here has over 20 children.

Sadly, the statement I bolded is just not true. While I agree that you can't legislate "morality", you can legislate people's behavior. We passed enough laws that it's now illegal to discriminate against blacks, at least institutionally. I don't hold out much hope for human beings to actually treat each other as equals, but as long as they're forced to coexist on the workforce, eventually the experience of knowing some black people will cause some people to rethink their previously held views.

The same will be true of gays. Until people get to interact with some people that they know to be gay, they will continue to think of this as "not my problem" and feel that our current institutionalised discrimination is acceptable. It isn't, it never is. Nor is dicrimination against any other race, women, religion or lack thereof, handicap, or whatever group you care to insert.

As for having billions of kids, that one is tough to legislate. Conception is a biological function of hetersexual sex. As long as our society takes no responsibility for educating our youth on ways to avoid pregnancy (because of course as religious people, "just say no" is all the advice anyone should ever need) we condemn ourselves to always having a class of self-selected societal untouchables, which is a horrible situation. People in abject poverty are always the ones who produce the most children- this has always been the case. Without a way out of poverty, these children grow up facing less that average opportunities and are forced to make decisions that the majority of us will never understand. To say this is sad doesn't even scratch the surface.

My inclination is to stop rewarding people for having more kids, and offer food stamps and assistance to the working poor. This is not how it works though. There is no way for those in true poverty to work their way out, because unless they are in a position to land a good paying job (which most are not or they wouldn't be poor to begin with), the kinds of jobs they can get don't pay enough for them to survive without some degree of assistance. I would like people to get the true hand up that's needed to complete job training, and continue to receive the benefits they need until they actually ARE able to make it on their own. The likelihood that someone who had gone through such a life-changing ordeal would raise children who value education and honest work is far stronger than those who are raised on the system and see no way out.

But what about the lazy fuckers who have no desire to work, but keep having kids anyway? Cutting off funding penalises the children, and I can't see that as wholesome or fair. I'll admit I don't have the answer.

What I do know is that gay couples marrying certainly would not be adding to the unwanted child crisis, and many of them are willing to adopt other people's uinwanted children. If people are willing to provide a stable environment for kids, and they actually want them (which they'd have to really want them- they sure aren't going to be happening by accident), that just seems like a good solution to two problems.
 

GoneA

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How seriously are we supposed to take the self-professed righteous about the sanctity of marriage when so many of them can't even get it right themselves?

EXACT-FUCKIN'-LY ... that's why anytime I see dumbass motha'fuckas come on this forum with "the government shouldn't allow same-sex marriage because..." it makes me wanna snuff them out. How the hell can you blabber on about what's right and what's wrong or what's valuable and what's insubstantial, in term of marriage, when you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO GAUGE IT BY!
 

titan1968

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What about childless couples? Should they be treated differently? Legally or socially? What about couples from different ethnic or socioeconomic backgrounds? Would you treat them differently? On what grounds?

If the man is sterile or the woman is barren, should he/she lose some of his/her rights? Does this mean that he/she should have less rights because he/she is unable to produce children? If only the man is sterile, there is the indirect route-- the 'jumping through several hoops' (e.g. in vitro fertilisation)-- which is costly.

To my knowledge, polygamy is illegal in most of our societies. I must emphasise that my feelings on that subject have little to do with it being illegal or not. The law has a logic to it-- it also has no emotions.



Socially I agree that same sex couples shouldn't be treated differently. But legally why shouldn't they be treated differently? Just because YOU say so? That's kind of funny logic, don't you think? One couple can have children directly creating them the other couple can't without jumping through several hoops. Is that not a significant difference that requires different treatment?
Exactly! Gay love was illegal too, now it isn't. Why shouldn't polygamy be made legal? Who are you to decide whether what three or more consenting adults choose to do is legal or not? Isn't that your logic?


Is that what you have heard or is that what you believe? I guess we haven't been watching the same news reports or reading the same newspapers. :confused:
[/quote]And for better or worse 'The People' are choosing not to recognize gay marriage.

Of course it is acceptable. The Mormons are doing it today even though its illegal.

Answer me only this: I'm Mormon and have two wives who love me and each other dearly. Why can't our polygamous/bigamous marriage be recognized?:cool:[/quote]
 

NCbear

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NC I want to poke that bear in the belly, he's just so darn cute!

:hands on hips:

I am NOT that bear from the 1980s fabric softener commercials!


:biggrin1:

NCbear (who remembers that a college dorm mate in the ROTC had only one pic on his door: of Snuggle with a rifle sight superimposed over it :tongue: )
 

NCbear

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BTW Nobody can make you feel inferior unless you let them do it. I may not be treated right but I am not inferior.

hmmm where is marshmallow man. I wanna show him I'm umm superior. :naughty:

Hootie -- love your new avatar. The guy with the little fin really proves your point (above).

NCbear (who really liked "Finding Nemo" because of what it says about men who are good fathers)
 

titan1968

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Lex, you are absolutely right. You have a point.

Mrs Kotchanski, thanks for keeping the debate on track. I applaud your efforts. :wink:

The number one threat to marriage is divorce. Period. Divorce is the only thing that can undo a marriage,
No one else's marriage, to my knowledge, has ever threatened MY marriage.

Things like Britney Spear's 55 hour annulled marriage and subsequent second marriage and divorce threaten marriage more than enything else.

How seriously are we supposed to take the self-professed righteous about the sanctity of marriage when so many of them can't even get it right themselves?

This national debate is really an economic issue (companies don't want to have to extend benefits and incur additional costs) that has been carefully disguised as a moral and religious issue. They know how far they'd get if they said "We don't want to insure fags and lesbians." Nowhere.

Gay is the new (old) Black.