Where's all the liberal defense of illegal immigration

[B_starinvestor]

the irony is Olberman and maddow are NOT on the air 24 hours a day so me thinks someone is projecting. another one of the brain dead (can the brain dead be brainwashed?) who suckle on the teats of Fox News

Really? I thought they just went straight through with no sleep or food.

Thanks for the inside tip.

 

[maxcok]

Already a pool table down there. The fact that you want to hustle makes me want to pull serious dollars out for that game.

Excellent. Finally, an economic model we can agree on.

FYI i don't watch Hannity

Let me fix that for you:

FYI i don't watch Hannity anymore

There. I'm glad I've had a positive influence. There's hope for you yet, doll.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Excellent. Finally, an economic model we can agree on.


Let me fix that for you:
There. I'm glad I've had a positive influence. There's hope for you yet, doll.

LOL, okay thanks for your guidance...:biggrin1:

 

[maxcok]

LOL, okay thanks for your guidance...:biggrin1:

You are my best student. Would that others would follow your shining example. I'll give you a blue star.

Sorry, I'm all out of gold, and you haven't earned that yet anyway.

 

[tripod]

Hmmm... let's see.

Mexico used to own Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California. Spanish people and Native people have all lived there for many years with the Natives having lived there for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

As far as the illegal immigrants coming across the border, these folks have a high percentage of native blood and are ultimately the descendants of people that have been living in AZ, NM, CA and Texas for thousands of years. God forbid they want to live and work in the same land that their forefathers did.

Let's lock em all up.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Hmmm... let's see.

Mexico used to own Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California. Spanish people and Native people have all lived there for many years with the Natives having lived there for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

As far as the illegal immigrants coming across the border, these folks have a high percentage of native blood and are ultimately the descendants of people that have been living in AZ, NM, CA and Texas for thousands of years. God forbid they want to live and work in the same land that their forefathers did.

You are right, Tri.

Thing is, the Mexican gov't allowed American settlers to farm the land since they weren't able to utilize it; then they began taxing the settlers more and more, without providing any services for the tax - no law enforcement, organization, etc. It was prototype 'taxation without representation' and the settlers fought for and won the land.

Is that right or wrong? Hard to say potentially, but it was theirs to lose in my opinion. They were sucking tax dollars out of those farmers and not providing anything in return, and had the settlers not farmed the land, it would have sat there barron and unused.

 

[maxcok]

^ It's a moot point. Right or wrong, political borders are constantly changing throughout history. We can try to be equitable, but no one has a "right" to the land, just because their forefathers occupied it. So the United States 'took' the land from Mexico, the Spanish 'took' the land from native peoples, who likely fought over it themselves. How far back do you go? We have to deal with present day realities.

 

[FRE]

The illegals should all move into Nancy Pelosi's house - she can feed, cloth, bathe them all and pay their taxes. It's the right thing to do.

Why should Nancy pay their taxes when they are already paying their taxes?

If they rent a residence, they are paying property taxes through their rent.

Whenever they buy anything, they are paying a sales tax.

Unless they are hired by an employer who does not follow the IRS rules, they have income taxes and FICA withheld.

Exactly what taxes aren't they paying?

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

The other problem that SB 1070 supporters don't want to deal with or address is the reality that proper legalization of would-be or want-to-be American citizens is incredibly difficult to do. My stepfather married my mother and moved to the United States a few years ago, and we spent much of the time since he's been here to get him legal. The United States Citizenship and Immigration Service is a bureaucratic nightmare. We tried following the directions online (and I'm a pretty bright guy) and we couldn't get it.

You need this form, this form, and this new form that just came out. Oh? You're from here? You need this form. Don't fill out this one. Or that one. Send it to this distribution center nearest your address except, no, they don't do that form; you have to send it here. No, there. No, THERE, like I told you the first time.

We just scraped up enough money to get an immigration lawyer to do it. It took just two forms, a signature, and BAM! it was done. I could only imagine how much more complicated that process would be for (1) non-English speaking persons who (2) come here so heavily dependent on getting correct, accurate information that it would take next to nothing to swindle these folks.

We'd rather build the danged fence, though.

Not that faceking ever deserves fuller explanation (but I'll give it anyway): I don't think there's anyone out there defending illegal immigration. I just take issue with the incredibly strong connotation between Mexican person (or anyone appearing Mexican) and "they're taking our jobs!" "let's get rid of 'em!" "socialist Mexican scum!" papers please. I also take issue with law enforcement being asked to do a job that they're destined to fail, i.e. determining reasonable suspicion to stop or detain someone who's illegal while failing to acknowledge that we all but put ILLEGAL in bold print under anyone's a bit too brown face. Finally, I take issue that in an effort to blast the federal government for not doing anything about immigration, that Arizona decides a draconian measure was absolutely necessary.

Never mind that we don't complain when illegals and legals of Mexican descent prop up our southwestern economy by the millions. We'd just rather take your money and talk shit.

 

[TomCat84]

You are right, Tri.

Thing is, the Mexican gov't allowed American settlers to farm the land since they weren't able to utilize it; then they began taxing the settlers more and more, without providing any services for the tax - no law enforcement, organization, etc. It was prototype 'taxation without representation' and the settlers fought for and won the land.

Is that right or wrong? Hard to say potentially, but it was theirs to lose in my opinion. They were sucking tax dollars out of those farmers and not providing anything in return, and had the settlers not farmed the land, it would have sat there barron and unused.

This is a very concise and accurate analysis, actually. I'd also add that the Mexican government was unwilling (not just unable) to utilize the land and resources of the (now) American Southwest. Any American could come in, get a plot of land, etc- in exchange for converting to Catholicism and pledging allegiance to Mexico. ANd besides tripod- dont romaticize the Spaniards OR the Natives. They were both plenty brutal to each other in their own right.

 

[B_hijack]

especially from all the fucking New England/New Yorkers/English folk who fucking know little, nor feel any impact thereof.... jus' askin...

Your patriotism is astonishing.

 

[TomCat84]

Why should Nancy pay their taxes when they are already paying their taxes?

If they rent a residence, they are paying property taxes through their rent.

Whenever they buy anything, they are paying a sales tax.

Unless they are hired by an employer who does not follow the IRS rules, they have income taxes and FICA withheld.

Exactly what taxes aren't they paying?

Actually, I knew an illegal immigrant from Brazil who was paid cash "under the table."- didnt ever pay a dime in income taxes, I'm sure.

 

[B_Nick8]

I already told you yes - and I'll have 24-hour feeds of Olbermann and Maddow streaming on two plasmas for your constant entertainment and comfort.:biggrin1:

Oh, c'mon, star. You know you secretly lust for Rachel if only because she's one woman you could still respect in the morning. :tongue:

I know you don't live in a basement (and I'm just a little bored with that tired old chestnut) but I do wish you'd stop hanging out with trolls like Face.

Come into the light, Sally Ann. :wink:

 

[B_OtterJoq]

Shocked at the absence of defense of lawbreaking illegal immigration vis-a-via SB1070.. via throwing out the racism card, human rights, the existing Federal law is bigotry... Obama/Holder never reading the law, yet again jumping to conclusions.... especially from all the fucking New England/New Yorkers/English folk who fucking know little, nor feel any impact thereof.... jus' askin...

Wow.

What a dick.

And I'm not referring to his penis.

A cock is only as hot as the guy it's connected to.

I'd rather fuck Abe Vigoda.

 

[maxcok]

Actually, I knew an illegal immigrant from Brazil who was paid cash "under the table."- didnt ever pay a dime in income taxes, I'm sure.

Living in San Diego, surely you're aware of the tens of thousands of Mexican workers who cross the border daily to work as housekeepers, gardeners, etc., many of them paid cash under the table. In my business there I frequently provided services to the uber wealthy, and many of them had foreign born, non-English speaking staff, nannies, maids and the like, living on their properties. One could reasonably assume most were not citizens, had no papers, no income deductions, and in many cases I knew that for a fact. I also had occasion to hire subcontractors, and it was not uncommon for them to offer me a discount if I paid them or their employees in cash, wink nod.

It's a dirty little secret that many of the folks who give lip service to cracking down on illegal immigration, benefit from employing workers illegally at lower wages - while avoiding deductions, employee contributions and those pesky laws governing employment practices. Like so many things, when it comes right down to it, it's plain old greed and the desire to maximize profits. The supply of illegal workers meets the demand for cheap labor, and these practices drive down wages and benefits for the legal working class.

"But Americans don't want to do those jobs", is a common argument. Well yes, they would, if you paid them a decent living wage with benefits. No, most Americans don't want to pick tomatoes for $10-12 an hour; it's hard, hot, back-breaking work. But I bet plenty would if you paid $20-24 an hour with benefits. If you're a worker with virtually no living expenses in a trailer with 10 other guys, who's sending all the money back to his family in Mexico - where it's worth many times what it is here - it's a no brainer. "But that would drive up the cost of groceries", you say. Pffftt! I say. Americans are too fat already, we have the cheapest food in the world, and we throw half of it away. Plus I'd rather pay a few cents more for a tomato than live in a country where workers are exploited, whether they're legal or illegal.

Despite all the posturing, the truth is that Mexican nationals, the Mexican government, individual Americans, and especially American business all benefit from the status quo. After oil exports, remittances sent from workers in the U.S. are the second largest source of foreign revenue for the Mexican economy!

 

[FRE]

Living in San Diego, surely you're aware of the tens of thousands of Mexican workers who cross the border daily to work as housekeepers, gardeners, etc., many of them paid cash under the table. In my business there I frequently provided services to the uber wealthy, and many of them had foreign born, non-English speaking staff, nannies, maids and the like, living on their properties. One could reasonably assume most were not citizens, had no papers, no income deductions, and in many cases I knew that for a fact. I also had occasion to hire subcontractors, and it was not uncommon for them to offer me a discount if I paid them or their employees in cash, wink nod.

It's a dirty little secret that many of the folks who give lip service to cracking down on illegal immigration, benefit from employing workers illegally at lower wages - while avoiding deductions, employee contributions and those pesky laws governing employment practices. Like so many things, when it comes right down to it, it's plain old greed and the desire to maximize profits. The supply of illegal workers meets the demand for cheap labor, and these practices drive down wages and benefits for the legal working class.

"But Americans don't want to do those jobs", is a common argument. Well yes, they would, if you paid them a decent living wage with benefits. No, most Americans don't want to pick tomatoes for $10-12 an hour; it's hard, hot, back-breaking work. But I bet plenty would if you paid $20-24 an hour with benefits. If you're a worker with virtually no living expenses in a trailer with 10 other guys, who's sending all the money back to his family in Mexico - where it's worth many times what it is here - it's a no brainer. "But that would drive up the cost of groceries", you say. Pffftt! I say. Americans are too fat already, we have the cheapest food in the world, and we throw half of it away. Plus I'd rather pay a few cents more for a tomato than live in a country where workers are exploited, whether they're legal or illegal.

Despite all the posturing, the truth is that Mexican nationals, the Mexican government, individual Americans, and especially American business all benefit from the status quo. After oil exports, remittances sent from workers in the U.S. are the second largest source of foreign revenue for the Mexican economy!

You're right. I used to live in San Diego and knew people who had illegal household help. The same thing happens here in Albuquerque.

Many of those illegal are horribly exploited. Some of the agricultural workers actually live in holes in the ground; the San Diego Union printed an article about it. They are so desperate to send $$ home to their poor families that they will tolerate conditions that others would not accept. On the other hand, some do work for wages from which taxes and FICA are withheld.

It's a very bad situation. The ultimate solution would be for Mexico to clean up their corruption so that the country would become prosperous and their citizens would not feel compelled to enter the U.S. illegally to support their families. But, most of the countries south of the border have always been corrupt and poor, a situation which is unlikely to end soon.

 

[maxcok]

. . . The ultimate solution would be for Mexico to clean up their corruption so that the country would become prosperous and their citizens would not feel compelled to enter the U.S. illegally to support their families. But, most of the countries south of the border have always been corrupt and poor, a situation which is unlikely to end soon.

You're right, that will be a long time coming. Alternatively, we could have a 'guest worker' program, where foreign workers could enter the country legally, say six months on, six months off, properly registered and supervised by the Dept. of Labor and INS. Guest workers would be subject to the same laws governing labor practices as U.S. citizens, which would benefit all workers, regardless of their citizenship.

 

[flame boy]

Genuine discussion = fine
Trolling and pointless obviously inflammatory stuff = not fine.

This thread mostly falls into the second category. The mods are keeping a close eye on the politics forum and pending some on going discussions actions will start to be implemented in due course.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Genuine discussion = fine
Trolling and pointless obviously inflammatory stuff = not fine.

This thread mostly falls into the second category. The mods are keeping a close eye on the politics forum and pending some on going discussions actions will start to be implemented in due course.

Despite the fact that the word 'fucking' appears twice, there is nothing in the OP that isn't true. Since the message condemns certain members of the current administration, I suspect that is why you and others categorize it as 'trolling' and 'inflammatory' but the fact remains that the information presented is accurate.

In the 4 years that I have been a member of LPSG, it still baffles me that the very people that plead and protest about the constitution and due process, etc., are the same people that attempt to squelch free speech - particularly when it doesn't align perfectly with their liberal ideology.

Of course, i don't expect anything to change - but it is the truth. The claims and wails of 'trolling' ricochet about this forum from the same 3 or 4 suspects who, coincidently, are diehard liberals. And true to form, those who are ultimately banned are by and large, not liberal.

 

[Thedrewbert]

There is no defense of illegal immigrants. It's a defense of the rest us and of our civil liberties. The new AZ law is just asking to be abused. Do you look brown? Papers please. Is that a Canadian accent I hear, eh? You're going to have to come downtown while we sort out your status. Oh you have a driver's license? Well that doesn't count as proof of citizenship. Oh you were out jogging and didn't bring your wallet? We'll let you call your wife from jail and she can bring your passport down. What? You're one of the 4 out of 5 Americans that doesn't have a passport? Well I hope that you have access to an original long form birth certificate then. Oh that got destroyed in a fire?........ etc.

On any given day I travel freely around my state without carrying any proof of citizenship.