while the republitards scream socialism...

[Ericsson1228d]

"Not everyone demonstrated, dropped out, took drugs, joined in the sexual revolution or dodged the draft"

So you are saying that you regard dropping out of school, taking drugs, being promiscuous and draft dodging to be positive things? Face it, those things happened with regular occurrence in the 60's, and there is no shame in distancing oneself from it, in my opinion.

It's outrageously disingenuous for anyone to not recognize that the conservatives in this country have been beating the drums of the Culture Wars for many, many years. It has always been hypocritical.

But the dems are not beating the Culture drums? NEA, Gay marriage, NPR, etc? Both parties do this. To deny THAT is hypocritical.

 

[deleted15807]

Dan and Marilyn Quayle ran the whole "family values" bullshit into the ground during the 1992 campaign.

Welcome to the United States of Amnesia. How can we forget Dan Qualye taking on Murphy Brown, a fictional character, over her decision to have a child out of wedlock? Republican Party strategists have known from the beginning the coalition needed the religious wingnuts to win.

Dan Quayle vs. Murphy Brown


Vice President dared to argue last week in a San Francisco speech that the Los Angeles riots were caused in part by a "poverty of values" that included the acceptance of unwed motherhood, as celebrated in popular culture by the CBS comedy series Murphy Brown.

And of course how can we forget Reverend Fallwel's gay teletubbie? Yet another fictional character.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Welcome to the United States of Amnesia. How can we forget Dan Qualye taking on Murphy Brown, a fictional character, over her decision to have a child out of wedlock? Republican Party strategists have known from the beginning the coalition needed the religious wingnuts to win.

Dan Quayle vs. Murphy Brown


Vice President dared to argue last week in a San Francisco speech that the Los Angeles riots were caused in part by a "poverty of values" that included the acceptance of unwed motherhood, as celebrated in popular culture by the CBS comedy series Murphy Brown.

And of course how can we forget Reverend Fallwel's gay teletubbie? Yet another fictional character.

Yes, the Dems prefer to relate their fiction to real people and attempt to destroy people's lives with their lies. Murphy Brown and Teletubbies are one thing, but what about Tawana Brawley (who lied about being raped - and Sharpton stuck by her) and what about Crystal Magnum the prostitute who lied about being raped by Duke Lacrosse players and was defended by Sharpton and Jackson?

Yeah, it's one thing to disagree with fictional characters, but another to practice character assassination and slander. I

 

[Bbucko]

So you are saying that you regard dropping out of school, taking drugs, being promiscuous and draft dodging to be positive things? Face it, those things happened with regular occurrence in the 60's, and there is no shame in distancing oneself from it, in my opinion.

But the dems are not beating the Culture drums? NEA, Gay marriage, NPR, etc? Both parties do this. To deny THAT is hypocritical.

I have no idea how old you are, Skippy, or how much life you've seen outside of Michigan, so I'm gonna give you some benefit of the doubt and presume that you have no recollection of the 1960s and 70s when we still had a draft here. It's remarkably easy to say that you'd serve proudly if called no matter where for no matter what when you've never been in such a position. When reality means that you could actually be called upon to sacrifice your life for a worthless cause like Vietnam, you might have tried extraordinary means to keep yourself from being killed. Ask Dick Cheney.

The Vietnam war and its draft weren't over until I was 15, and I was terrified. I honestly have no idea how I would have served if called or what I would have done to avoid it in the name of self-preservation. This was a real-life situation where reasonable people could and did disagree. Scoring cheap political points over what was a time of enormous upheaval is trite and pedantic. And yes, I do think that mindless conformity to prevailing standards is not just dangerous but deeply un-American. The Republican party is supposed to be the party of Individuality, right?

When the drums of war were beating after 9/11, I was one of the very few who was very vocal about reconsidering the volunteer-only armed services and possibly reinstating the draft. If we had actually done so, I seriously doubt that we'd have invaded Iraq.

I don't do drugs any more. I stopped when I was 23 to focus on my career instead of the party. But until then, I'd done every possible thing one can do short of injecting into my bloodstream: snort, smoke, eat, swallow; you name it. I'm neither especially proud of this nor in any way ashamed. It made me part of who I grew to be and informed me via first-hand knowledge of both the joys and dangers of drug use. I have been and will always be a fierce anti-prohibitionist and believe that everyone should have the choice to have had the same experiences I have had.

As to dropping out: I graduated from High School but never went to college. I was obliged to support myself completely from the age of 17 and worked very very hard instead.

I'm a stong believer in live-and-let-live and that experience is the best teacher. I've always said that anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Having lived with HIV/AIDS for 25 years, I know something about that first-hand.

Now, what's this prattle about the Democratic contribution to the Culture Wars? You could have picked better examples, Skippy.

NPR does not get any funding from taxes and relies entirely upon private donations. And although compared to Fox News Channel they may seem skewed left, in reality they are excessively moderate and very comfortably bourgeois: think navy-blue Volvo wagons driven by people with graduate degrees in New Haven, CT. There's nothing revolutionary or shocking about any of that.

The NEA is an old reliable whipping-boy for cultural conservatives and budget hawks, though the actual numbers are paltry by Big Bad Gov't standards. But I found it intriguing in my research that it was most heavily-funded under GHW Bush at over $170,000 and cut in half following the whole Piss Christ brouhaha under Clinton. I'd be tempted to agree with you that we should probably just eliminate it. Americans have never understood the value of the arts in their lives, anyway. The heat generated by the NEA is totally out of proportion with the light it generates.

Gay marriage? You REALLY want to get into gay marriage here at LPSG? Really? Go for it, Skippy. I dare you :biggrin1:

 

[Ericsson1228d]

I don't do drugs any more. I stopped when I was 23 to focus on my career instead of the party. But until then, I'd done every possible thing one can do short of injecting into my bloodstream: snort, smoke, eat, swallow; you name it. I'm neither especially proud of this nor in any way ashamed. It made me part of who I grew to be and informed me via first-hand knowledge of both the joys and dangers of drug use. I have been and will always be a fierce anti-prohibitionist and believe that everyone should have the choice to have had the same experiences I have had.

I'm sure children born as crack-babies appreciate your open-mindedness with regard to their mother's freedom of choice to use crack.

I think the discourse has reached a low point when one can't even admit that illicit drugs are "bad." I think your progressiveness has eclipsed your common sense.

 

[Bbucko]

Yes, the Dems prefer to relate their fiction to real people and attempt to destroy people's lives with their lies. Murphy Brown and Teletubbies are one thing, but what about Tawana Brawley (who lied about being raped - and Sharpton stuck by her) and what about Crystal Magnum the prostitute who lied about being raped by Duke Lacrosse players and was defended by Sharpton and Jackson?

Yeah, it's one thing to disagree with fictional characters, but another to practice character assassination and slander. I

Al Sharpton, far as I know, has never been elected to anything, neither has Jesse Jackson. Much like Glenn Beck, Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh, they can be just as crazy as they like. Sarah Palin's the newest member of that club: watch her for five-flag batshit craziness coming soon.

I doubt you'll find few if any members here actively supporting them, what they say, have said or the causes they feel are important. Despite Jackson's ancient-history associations with Martin Luther King, I think nearly everyone now finds them to be a side-show, and not in any good way.

But when Quayle and Falwell attacked single mothers and gays, they were criticizing millions of tax payers. There is a difference there.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

But when Quayle and Falwell attacked single mothers and gays, they were criticizing millions of tax payers. There is a difference there.

But when Jimmy Carter calls those taxpayers who oppose Obama's policies "racists," that's okay?

 

[Bodaddio]

Not like Mrs. Gore tried to censor the recording industry with the PMRC or anything.
Remember the shocked looks on the faces of the congressional members when Dee Snider spoke. Priceless.

Cheers

 

[Ajacoid]

A dictator?? who speaks of bipartisan agreement?

Then why hasn't he met with the Republican leadership in forever? Bipartisanship does not mean one side rolls over to the other.

Well, excuse the fuck outta us, but yeah, if we're going to bail your asses out then no, you can't give CEO's their million dollar bonuses and continue to make shitty cars, thankee very much.

Obama talked about controlling CEO's compensation beyond companies that received bailouts:

"But he (Obama) also said the new guidelines are “only the beginning of a long-term effort” to realign the way business leaders are paid, beyond the banking industry and other firms getting bailouts." - Some CEO Positions May Be Up For Grabs with $500,000 Pay Cap | West Orlando News On-line

The key word being BEYOND.

Who's terrorizing or censoring anyone? If you talk bullshit be prepared for people answering back, and for corporations making sound decisions as to whether they want their products associated with (said) bullshit.

I guess you're talking about the Glenn Beck's sponsors leaving him? Any company has the right to advertise with whatever program they want.

I can't watch too much Glenn Beck, he's too "the sky is falling" for me. However, your "bullshit" response is one I've heard over and over. I'm yet to hear somebody dispute what he's talked about with facts. I'm sure there are, I just haven't heard anybody present them. (FWIW, Keith Olberman, not a reliable source on this or most issues. He's ok with football and baseball tho.)

Having said that, your statement does not address the fact that this administration is working to at best limit conservative talk radio. The fairness doctrine (anything but) may not be reintroduced, but instead the FCC will push for localism. If I have to explain how that would affect programming, I understand why you are coming from left field. :tongue:

Well maybe that's your problem in a nutshell: your " disagreement" is "with Obama".

Indeed. I disagree with him and his administration and czars (for which he is responsible) on virtually everything. It's sad that the knee-jerk reaction by the left is to shout "racism," which can lead me to believe one of two things: 1) no intellectual honesty or ability exist to debate and discuss the issues, and 2) no desire to hear ideas from the other side exists.

My disagreement is not "with Obama" as you put it. I don't care if he's black, white, yellow, brown, or purple with yellow polka dots (I'd be curious in that case tho, have to admit).

Disagreement with issues and policy is your right, and is the American way when it works toward some kind of accord.

I would encourage you to read what you wrote carefully, and take it to heart! Can you also please forward that sentiment to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid? It sounds nice, but you have to mean it and act on it. By assuming I'm disagreeing "with Obama" instead of with Obama, you've placed a barrier to working to some kind of accord yourself, don't you think?

Especially considering you don't know jack about me (other than the fact I like to stir up the pot). How do you know I'm not black? I'm not but why should it even matter?

I'm sure there are idiots who oppose Obama because he's black. Just like there are idiots who support him because he's black!

Disagreement on a personal level, just for hate's sake, is exactly what it is...you know it, Jimmy C. knows it, and so do we.

I too am all too familiar with hate. When I am labeled a racist, a Nazi, a homophobe, or something along those lines by somebody from the "open-minded, tolerant," liberal side for stating that I believe government run health care is wrong (and I speak from experience on that subject), for stating that I think increasing taxes on the productive is wrong and certainly the wrong approach to grow the economy (yes I know income taxes have not YET been raised), for stating that bailing out failing companies is wrong, for stating that restricting free market forces (which brought color TVs to 97% of America's poor) is wrong, for stating that illegal immigration is a serious issue that should be addressed for the sake of national security, and not with a fence either (I have a unique perspective on immigration as I am an immigrant to this country).

I figure those labels are badges of honor. When a person resorts to name calling, they've ran out of arguments.

Now, I ask you, when was the last time you've actually listened to somebody who holds conservatives ideas and principles? I'm not talking about anybody who is on the radio or TV, but somebody you know, a friend or a family member. There are plenty on both sides of the issue who get so hung up on us vs. them that they can no longer even listen to others. I don't particularly care to lay blame as to "who started it," but I wish it could end. Reason and logic tend to get communicated better that way (naturally reason and logic would lead one to see it my way, but that's besides the point! :biggrin1.

Is Obama Hitler? He's just as much Hitler as George W. Bush. (For the record, I'm no George W. Bush fan whatsoever). There was only one Hitler and that was one too many.

Is Obama socialist? Yes, I think he is. That's not meant as an insult, but merely pointing out a fact. When he made the "share the wealth' comment, that illustrated a belief shared by socialists around the world. The word "Socialist" gets strong reactions in this country, but to me it's not a slur, rather a term that identifies a person's political and social beliefs.

I made my original posting to see what kind of reactions I would get. So thanks for reaction, it wasn't for not

Obama is not a fascist, but the direction his administration has taken do have a cumulative effect. Under the Bush administration it started with the Patriot Act. The name makes it sound so wholesome, but the application of it is anything but. It directly threatens our freedom and liberties.

I believe that government taking over banks and car companies, placing controls over how they function is equally wrong. I believe government controlling our health care and health care insurance as they are today and most certainly as HR3200 proposes is wrong (yes I've read it, I have no life). I believe the government has no business telling individuals what they can or cannot do as it affects their personal lives (this includes such trivial issues as gay marriage and legalization of cannabis), and as long as individuals' actions don't affect others in any undesired manner.

If we allow government to make more and more decisions for us (us being individuals or companies), one day we wake up and realize we don't get to make any decisions at all. And that, in the end, is fascism.

Anyway, take care :redface:

 

[Bodaddio]

What was Falwell elected to? Guess we can bring either Jackson or Sharpton back.

Cheers

 

[Bbucko]

But when Jimmy Carter calls those taxpayers who oppose Obama's policies "racists," that's okay?

Please locate the quote where I've ever written anything about Jimmy Carter. The man's a tool and was a singularly terrible president. Excluding the Camp David Accords, he was a complete failure.

Habitat for Humanity has done much good. He should keep hammering plywood and leave politics for the big boys.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Habitat for Humanity has done much good. He should keep hammering plywood and leave politics for the big boys.

I can agree with both of those points.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

Sarah Palin's the newest member of that club: watch her for five-flag batshit craziness coming soon.

lol

You mean we haven't seen five-flag batshit from Palin already?

 

[b.c.]

So once again, disagreeing with Obama must be *Racism*
I was never in the Klan, and I disagree with Obama. Robert Byrd was in the Klan and agrees with Obama. So who is the racist?

Not necessarily. But even you must admit that much of the disagreement (the hate based rhetoric and references) clearly has roots in "something other" than mere party politics and ideology.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Not necessarily. But even you must admit that much of the disagreement (the hate based rhetoric and references) clearly has roots in "something other" than mere party politics and ideology.

According to his Press Secretary, the President does not think the protests are "about the color of his skin."

That said, two possible scenarios exist:

1.) Obama is lying in his statement and really thinks the opposition are racially motivated.

2.) Obama see the political discourse as democracy in action, not as a racially motivated, mass organized hate crime.

In which scenario is true?

If Obama himself says he feels it is not racially motivated, shouldn't we drop it? Or is he lying?

 

[Bbucko]

lol

You mean we haven't seen five-flag batshit from Palin already?

Something tells we that we've only seen the tip of the batshit iceberg so far.

 

[Qua]

Not necessarily. But even you must admit that much of the disagreement (the hate based rhetoric and references) clearly has roots in "something other" than mere party politics and ideology.

I bolded the broad word with which one might disagree severely with Obama independent of both logical disagreement and race. Ideology is a VERY broad term which can excuse almost any belief. Ideology can even include racism. It can include anything.

 

[HazelGod]

Something tells we that we've only seen the tip of the batshit iceberg so far.

When she gets around to showing more than her "tips," I might tune back in...until then, I'm out.

 

[b.c.]

According to his Press Secretary, the President does not think the protests are "about the color of his skin."

That said, two possible scenarios exist:

1.) Obama is lying in his statement and really thinks the opposition are racially motivated.

2.) Obama see the political discourse as democracy in action, not as a racially motivated, mass organized hate crime.

In which scenario is true?

If Obama himself says he feels it is not racially motivated, shouldn't we drop it? Or is he lying?

No, perhaps he feels that weighing in on the debate would not be in the nation's best interest, nor in the best interests of the goals his administration have set forth.

Perhaps he's a "quick study" and has learned from the last time he gave his frank opinion on an issue.

Or perhaps he holds onto what he called "the audacity of hope"... in this case, hope that people are better than opposition based solely on demagoguery and hate.

I bolded the broad word with which one might disagree severely with Obama independent of both logical disagreement and race. Ideology is a VERY broad term which can excuse almost any belief. Ideology can even include racism. It can include anything.

Of course. My use of the term here pertains to political ideologies, specifically so-called conservatism and so-called liberalism.

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

I kinda hoped I was alone because I know I'll be one of the people they'll come for while my parents will be part of the Fascist movement. God, I'll be just like Sam Lowry in Gilliam's Brazil!

The you'd better get to work on improving your plumbing skills...

Seriously fascism is a real threat, and has been since 9/11. Anytime you curtail everyone's freedoms for the illusion of safety, you allow those in power to define who is good and who is bad, and how they should be treated. There have been many threads on here regarding the treatment of detained "terrorists," and how they need to be categorized, and accorded some clear degree of rights, which go directly to this point.

America has become cowardly since 9/11. In defense of the the 3K who died, we have sacrificed another 4K of our own, upended entire countries, and spent trillions. For what?

Every year we spend as much as "the stimulus" on "the military," and no one says one word about socialism, but just once loan $700B to leverage mad bankers, and unregulated insurance giants, now that's socialism.

Pass me a pipe wrench, would ya...