White man obtains Holder's ballot

dandelion

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Hardship? Give me a break. An ID is $10 where I live.

what's the argument here? People that don't drive don't have a DL? People that don't drive can obtain an ID through the DMV.

Well wait until it becomes necessary and watch the price rise. A relative of mine here in the UK was complaining the cost of a provisional driving license was more like $100. The official reason it is so high now is because of all the security checking they must do...because it is used as a form of identification.

. IMO, ID doesn't necessarily need to be a DL either. We could use credit cards with your name on it, a piece of stamped mail (has your name and address on it), SS cards, passports, draft registration cards, student ID's, military ID's, library cards etc. There are plenty of free alternatives out there
Ah but most of them are fast ceasing to be acceptable as people require higher standards of proof. Sure, just ask someone to bring in a bill with their name on it but very quick authorities start insisting that isnt enough. Especially if the POINT is to discourage voting amongst the less well off.

In the UK the government introduced a tax on everyone registered at an address. In no time the voting register shrank 10% and although the tax is now gone the register has never recovered. (although, in fact, in UK property taxation you still pay more if more than one person lives at an address) Its the poor who will not pay these taxes required for voting.
 

lucky8

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Especially if the POINT is to discourage voting amongst the less well off.

That isn't the point though. Democrats try to spin it as I'd like to discourage the poor from voting, but really, I just think you should have to show you are who you say you are before being given a ballot. I couldn't care less who anyone votes for as long as it's legal
 

lucky8

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And for fux sake, I'm unemployed. I'm poor as shit right now because of it. Would I, one of the poor that the libs allegedly want to protect, consider it a hardship to save up $10 and take a trip to the DMV? Absolutely NOT. This whole "discourage the poor from voting" is absolutely the only argument for not having a voter ID system, and there is no evidence whatsoever that it's a hardship for people like me to go out and obtain a legal form of identification. If I didn't have ID and really wanted to vote, I would get off my ass and find a way to make it happen.
 

matt19

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Nobody really knows if an election was turned by voter fraud because the system currently has no way to police it. It would be so easy for me to vote twice and here is an example:

I know my neighbors fairly well. Say one of them has told me they would be out of town or just not interested in voting that day. I go and vote as myself that morning, then later in the evening come back dressed a little different, wear a hat and vote under my neighbor's name. Odds are there is not the same staff on hand anymore anyways. Its just too easy to cheat.
 
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deleted15807

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Voting is free, and should remain that way. Everyone has an ID somewhere. If you don't, you're probably not doing a darn thing in your life accept for sitting at home on your couch, and you'll need to at some point get an ID so you can go out into the world and actually live.

Yes a 77 year old with diabetes confined to a wheelchair it's very easy for them to get down to the DMV. In fact all the elderly should get off their lazy asses right? Lucky 8 says it so that's how we knows. [/QUOTE]




When FoxFauxFixed News becomes a real news outlet I might watch. Meanwhile I wouldn't turn them on to get the fucking weather forecast. It's run by the Roger Ailes former and still is by-any-other-name a Republican strategist. The fact that you watch them explains a whole lof of your disinformation.
[URL="http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-uninformed-npr-listeners-not-poll-suggests/"]
Fox News Viewers Uninformed, NPR Listeners Not, Poll Suggests


 

tamati

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Have any of you been to the dmv lately? That in of itself is a hardship let alone the $40... And lost day of work for those working check to check. (or worse...)
.

I still have no clue what restrictionists think having an id will actually prevent from happening at the polls.... They wasn't to make everyone"show zee paperz!" Like under the gestapo....Then in the next breath complain the current prez is a fascist commie.




I can't wait till ted nugent shows up to vote and forgets his id, and shoots up the polling place in a fit of rage
 

lucky8

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Yes a 77 year old with diabetes confined to a wheelchair it's very easy for them to get down to the DMV. In fact all the elderly should get off their lazy asses right? Lucky 8 says it so that's how we knows.





When FoxFauxFixed News becomes a real news outlet I might watch. Meanwhile I wouldn't turn them on to get the fucking weather forecast. It's run by the Roger Ailes former and still is by-any-other-name a Republican strategist. The fact that you watch them explains a whole lof of your disinformation.

Fox News Viewers Uninformed, NPR Listeners Not, Poll Suggests


[/QUOTE]

Are you drunk right now? First off, I listen to NPR waaay more than I watch Fox News. Actually, I don't even watch Fox News, so your little tidbit of Fox vs NPR doesn't apply here, and you're obviously scrambling to divert attention away from the fact that you're wrong and voter fraud does exist and it does affect outcomes of elections. I'm sorry that the CNN/MSNBC propaganda machine intentionally ignores the issue, but unfortunately for you, other news outlets out there do cover these types of things. It doesn't matter who reports it, it still happened. An election was stolen, I'm sorry your pathetic ego won't let you explore things outside your own little bubble.

Why don't you address the actual story rather than the media outlet? Oh ya, because you can't refute that the election in the story actually was stolen, so you try to side step the issue and turn it into "I'm smarter than you because I listen to NPR," (what? seriously, are you drunk right now?) even though you're wrong, you know it, and can't present any actual facts pertaining to the OP. You have presented absolutely no facts in this thread, you're just babbling your opinions and pissed because you have no other arguments, you just have opinions. Facts always trump opinions.

That 77 year old with diabetes in a wheelchair has some form of ID somewhere. He's undoubtedly on SS and maybe even disability, so he's had to prove who he was at some point. Your hypothetical situations are meaningless in a world dominated by facts
 
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deleted15807

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Are you drunk right now?

I'm actually wondering if the Justice Department is drunk?

DOJ Official Calls O’Keefe Voter ID Stunt ‘Manufactured’

So your first link wasn't real fraud but manufactured fraud and your second one involved a sheriff in a small West Virginia town and 100 ballots? Is that correct? Yep sounds like enough evidence to crack down on voter fraud to me and I'm drunk.:rolleyes:


So it's 'easy' right?

The Justice Department letter said that cost, travel distance and limited hours of operation for state offices will make it difficult for people to get state-issued photo ID cards. The letter said that if an applicant does not have the correct document to get a state-issued photo ID, the least expensive option would be to spend $22 on a copy of the voter's birth certificate.

Justice Department bars Texas voter ID law

Justice Dept.: S.C. voter ID law violates Voting Rights Act
 

AtomicMouse1950

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Can anyone show me a single case where "voter fraud" actually changed the outcome of an election?
Wow... you must live in a hole in the wall??? You don't remember hanging chads in the 2000 Election Bush Vs. Gore? You don't remember how in 2004 how Kerry was projected to win the election against Bush, but Bush won? You don't remember the computerized voting, where, votes cast for Kerry, went to Bush? Wow... :sleeping::lame:
 

Calboner

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Wow... you must live in a hole in the wall??? You don't remember hanging chads in the 2000 Election Bush Vs. Gore? You don't remember how in 2004 how Kerry was projected to win the election against Bush, but Bush won? You don't remember the computerized voting, where, votes cast for Kerry, went to Bush? Wow... :sleeping::lame:
Voter fraud means fraud by voters, not the defrauding of voters by vote counters. The controversy in Florida in 2000 over how or whether to count ballots does not constitute voter fraud. The discrepancy between exit-polling results and actual vote is not evidence of voter fraud. You make a lot of noise without understanding what is being talked about. Lame, indeed.
 

gymfresh

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This point the video attempts to make is a non-issue. In this country we vote on the honor system; your signature is your word that you are who you say you are, and that's been good enough for Uncle Sam for most of our history.

The culprit in voter fraud is not the government, it's the voter. Faulting the poll workers for offering a ballot to someone who confirms their name and address places the burden incorrectly. A signature is still required, and forgery is a crime.

It is a separate issue whether it makes sense (financially and democratically) to implement more stringent identification procedures. IMO most of the proposals to do so have disenfranchisement at their core; reducing voter turnout favors certain factions.

I still think voter fraud would be less of an issue if we went to obligatory voting.
 

lucky8

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I'm actually wondering if the Justice Department is drunk?

DOJ Official Calls O’Keefe Voter ID Stunt ‘Manufactured’

So your first link wasn't real fraud but manufactured fraud and your second one involved a sheriff in a small West Virginia town and 100 ballots? Is that correct? Yep sounds like enough evidence to crack down on voter fraud to me and I'm drunk.:rolleyes:


So it's 'easy' right?

The Justice Department letter said that cost, travel distance and limited hours of operation for state offices will make it difficult for people to get state-issued photo ID cards. The letter said that if an applicant does not have the correct document to get a state-issued photo ID, the least expensive option would be to spend $22 on a copy of the voter's birth certificate.

Justice Department bars Texas voter ID law

Justice Dept.: S.C. voter ID law violates Voting Rights Act

Oh, so Eric Holder says it's a hardship, it must be a hardship then. His opinion isn't politically driven at all. :rolleyes: What do they mean manufactured? Someone devised a plan to go into a polling office and ask for Holder's ballot? Yawn. It blatantly demonstrates just how easy it is to commit fraud when voting. Like I said earlier, EVERY single instance where fraud is this easy to commit, government has created regulation to minimize it. But not here. They want the fraud to continue

My story about the Sheriff was in response to Indy asking someone to show him a single case where voter fraud affected the outcome of the election. I obliged.
 
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redneckgymrat

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The culprit in voter fraud is not the government, it's the voter.

Actually, the "culprit" is the interaction between the voter and the government. And, it could be handled at either end.

Proposing that the *institution* be held to slightly higher standards, to ensure that the individual finds it harder to commit fraud, is not unreasonable.

I may not be a fan of government involvement...but in this case, it's the interaction with a government institution that needs fixing.

Oh, so Eric Holder says it's a hardship, it must be a hardship then. His opinion isn't politically driven at all.
...
EVERY single instance where fraud is this easy to commit, government has created regulation to minimize it. But not here. They want the fraud to continue

Sorry Lucky8, but it's funny when it's not happening to me. I don't envy you the responses you're about to get.
 
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AtomicMouse1950

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Once again you miss the concept of "voter Fraud" ... voter fraud consists, yes... of people trying to vote using a dead person's i.d. But vote fraud extends to those methods that are used to collect one's rightful and private vote. One person, one vote. It extends to the computer machines which are still in place in many states, that the way those votes are collected, are suspect. Uncovering supposed missing votes after the polls close, or the next day, and having it favor one particular party, is suspect. And it's happened several times. It's not the voter and their one vote that is the problem. It's multiple votes, where in that particular precinct, where those particular numbers don't actually exist, suddenly going to a particular party. Voter fraud is a myth. Fraudulent voting recorded by computer is a very serious problem. And most Right Wing Governments refuse to correct or address it. Hanging chads, and Supreme Court decisions on who won an election(which is not in their authority) not withstanding. The Right Wing wants to get government out of our lives, but when it comes to issue they're concerned about most... namely what a woman does with her own body, or more paperwork for voters to have to come up with at the polls, then Government intervention is perfectly alright. I hope the Justice Dept., gets involved and shuts down those laws that make it more difficult for voters to vote. And yes, your i.d. and signature is exactly enough in order to vote. It's the RW that wants to chop that down, so less people vote, and only Repugnantcan votes get counted. Because the RW knows... they're outnumbered at the polls, when it comes time for the critical votes to take place. They know they'll use. And Voter suppression is one of the ways the RW is trying to jigger the vote. SO please spare me the tripe.


Voter fraud means fraud by voters, not the defrauding of voters by vote counters. The controversy in Florida in 2000 over how or whether to count ballots does not constitute voter fraud. The discrepancy between exit-polling results and actual vote is not evidence of voter fraud. You make a lot of noise without understanding what is being talked about. Lame, indeed.
 

bobbyboyle

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Once again you miss the concept of "voter Fraud" ... voter fraud consists, yes... of people trying to vote using a dead person's i.d. But vote fraud extends to those methods that are used to collect one's rightful and private vote.
Calboner said:
Voter fraud means fraud by voters, not the defrauding of voters by vote counters.
One person, one vote. It extends to the computer machines which are still in place in many states, that the way those votes are collected, are suspect.
Calboner said:
Voter fraud means fraud by voters, not the defrauding of voters by vote counters.
Uncovering supposed missing votes after the polls close, or the next day, and having it favor one particular party, is suspect. And it's happened several times. It's not the voter and their one vote that is the problem. It's multiple votes, where in that particular precinct, where those particular numbers don't actually exist, suddenly going to a particular party.
Calboner said:
Voter fraud means fraud by voters, not the defrauding of voters by vote counters.
You get the idea (well, maybe you don't, but everyone else does).
 
D

deleted15807

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Oh, so Eric Holder says it's a hardship,

Nope a lot of people understand.

State photo ID restrictions disproportionately affect African Americans, Latinos, young voters, people over 65 and people with disabilities. Advancement Project studies show that 11 percent of eligible voters, or about 21 million people, don’t have updated, state-issued photo IDs: 25 percent of African Americans, 15 percent of those earning less than $35,000, 18 percent of citizens age 65 or older and 20 percent of voters age 18 to 29.​

And guess what all the above groups don't do? Yes vote Republican. So lets get RID of them. Banish them. Check!



My story about the Sheriff was in response to Indy asking someone to show him a single case where voter fraud affected the outcome of the election. I obliged.

A cherry picked story that means nothing. I can show you a story about meth moms and still-born babies. Is it so widespread we need laws? No.


You get the idea (well, maybe you don't, but everyone else does).

And never will.

Five myths about voter fraud

1. We need state voter ID laws to prevent fraud.
2. Requiring identification at the polls affects all voters equally.
3. The new laws are cheap for states and voters.
4. There’s no way to fight photo ID restrictions.
5. Perpetrators of voting fraud don’t face serious legal consequences.
 
D

deleted15807

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And another discussion point:

Q.
PHOTO ID
I am curious. It seems that you see nothing wrong with noncitizens voting. Voter ID is a quick and simple method of preventing illegal voting. I had to show my voter ID recently before I could vote in a primary election and I am a Caucasian.
· –
May 01, 2012 7:14 AM
· Permalink
A.
Eugene Robinson :

Of course I don't want noncitizens to vote. But they wouldn't be on the voter rolls, would they? They would have to vote in the names of registered citizens, and if this were happening we'd know about it, because those citizens would show up to vote and be told that they'd already cast ballots. That would be voter fraud. Tell me where it's happening.​