Who are the real patriots?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ledroit, Nov 10, 2008.

  1. ledroit

    ledroit New Member

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    I'm amazed at the number of members who want to keep the old anti-american rants alive on this site. I mean those who want to attack anyone who does not subscribe to the old, discredited beliefs about "liberals" or "democrats" or "Obama" himself, and keep things "personal" instead of focusing on the country's problems.

    I'm thinking of those who show a weird desire to attack Pelosi and "democrats" for realizing that the US auto industry itself, the biggest manufactoring sector in the US, is in trouble when it comes to international competition.

    What do you say? Is it in the best interests of the United States right now for bitter losers in the election to attack fellow Americans who propose reversing the disastrous anti-government, pro-rich policies that got us into this economic and financial mess?

    Do you think it is in the US' best interests now to attack the winners of this election, who are fellow americans? Is it patriotic to keep up these personal attacks on the president-elect, or the party that supports the policies he proposes? What about respecting the voice of the people who chose him as President? Is it patriotic to attack them?

    Or do you think it is a wiser choice to focus on the problems themselves, instead of engaging in the old targets that fuel GOP vitriol?

    Where should real patriots now in the US address their attention and their efforts?
     
    #1 ledroit, Nov 10, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  2. Apollo1

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    I've always subscribed to the belief that the real patriots are those who make an effort to better themselves, the communities around them, etc. It's easy to disagree with someone and break things down to faulty policies, and the usual political trappings, but the heart of this country really is with those who educate, provide social and medical services, etc. It's often the people who are around people whose realities are in the worst circumstances who end up making the differences in our society. They champion essential causes because they understand the needs for them, and a lot of times, they are the most staunch advocates for such struggles.

    I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks.

    Blessings
     
  3. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    What is this, a mousetrap? Who is anti-American amongst the losing party? I, for one, don't espouse that liberal or democratic beliefs are discredited. I believe they are wrong, but that's a personal opinion; not a fact.

    Children know that the auto industry is in trouble. Nobody is attacking Pelosi for that reason. People attack her because she's fucked up. Do you endorse her? Please answer.

    When you sing about 'fellow Americans", were you singing the same melody in the Bush Administration, you hypocrite?

    Now we're all fellow Americans singing Kumbaya. You make a fool of yourself.

    What was your sage advice 2 years ago?

    You wouldn't know a patriot if you were in his jock.
     
  4. curious n str8

    curious n str8 New Member

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    The true patriots are the ones who gave the best of themselves for the betterment of the good old US of A. The soldiers, the people who fought for civil liberties, teachers, doctors well you get my point. And to the OP you need to cross your partisan views I know I have. I am willing to give Obama and the Demacratic party a chance before I sound off. So far he seems to be off and running towards a good start. Just have to see how many GOP'ers he appoint to his cabinet.
     
  5. lucky8

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    "Real" America
     
  6. OldPArtner

    OldPArtner New Member

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  7. Phil Ayesho

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    What? so the Dems have to play fair?
    Where are all your posts over the past 8 years decrying the total absence of Democrats in Bush's administration?


    This is the kind of two faced double standard that I ONLY see from republicans... your guys can pursue the most viciously divisive partisan politics imaginable... and no complaints do I hear...
    But you demand the Democrats in power bend over backwards to be inclusive of your needs.

    Bush won on the narrowest margin in US history... and NOT by the popular vote but by act of the supreme court...
    And HE took it as carte blanche to take the nation as far right as was humanly possible... without the slightest consideration of the middle class or poor, without the slightest nod to liberal concerns.


    I don't mind if Obama includes a few republicans... just as long as they are not those nincompoops whoe BELEIVE in unregulated free markets the way other republicans believe in the rapture.

    Only intelligent republicans who believe in evolution and can accept the utter failure of free market economics need apply.

    I am sure there are at least 3 of those.


    Newt Gingrich has come out saying that the worst thing republicans can do right now is aggressively oppose Obama.
    That that will just alienate MORE Americans who, by and large, feel we should be pulling together in this crisis...

    HE also said the republicans need to own up to the failures of GOP rule these past 8 plus years... otherwise they will just make the same mistakes if they ever get in power again.


    Obama has a mandate to UNDO every fucking thing Bush did.

    And he should do exactly that.

    And one of the things Bush did in spades was to radically polarize the nation.

    The left is no longer the radicals....
    The radicals are the ones pushing America into an aggressive military oppressor.

    Its FASCISM.

    True republicans ought to repudiate it in the strongest possible terms.
     
  8. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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  9. curious n str8

    curious n str8 New Member

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    Good lord Phil... Sorry I didn't clarify my post better I meant it as a complement to Obama he is doing something I don't recall any Presidential-elects doing and that is reaching out to be bi-partisan :nutkick:
     
  10. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    well put.

    as always.
     
  11. Biggin'

    Biggin' New Member

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    were the real patriots the ones burning effigys of bush in the streets during a time of war? the ones who called him hitler during a time of war? or is the patriot term just given to any "minority" because they seem to challenge power?

    who knows....i believe the real patriots are the ones who fight for the right for people like us to sit at home taking pics of their wankers and discussing such topics. I too woulld like to see this "change and reaching across party lines" we've heard so much about. So far change seems to be a bunch of x-clinton people and other politicians who have been continually wrong about matters of history. Bring back jocelyn elders and Albright for heavens sake.

    the conservatives will back him in a time of war, thats for damn sure. but in matters of policy and taxes, they will stand up.

    the pop. vote did not give him a mandate by any means. even MSNBC says that.
     
    #11 Biggin', Nov 11, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2008
  12. SCsoccerMom

    SCsoccerMom New Member

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    according to Obama the real patriotic americans are those that pay more taxes to the government in order to give to other people so we can all "spread it around" and be "fair"....ok so all of you real patriots remember the income tax is just a minimum required payment. You are certainly free to give and give and give to the government until you freekin bleed red, white and blue. And I agree the right should not attack and vilify Obama the way the left and the media have done for eight years. We should all treat him and the lefties in congress with respect, pray for their good judgment and then when their ideology drives us all to the brink of destruction replace them as soon as possible with conservatives who will hopefully have the gumption and gonads to put the free back in free market. Parenthetically, it was not the Bush admin or free market that has created the current economic crisis...it was the rentless interference in the free market by do-gooder pinheads in congress republican and democrat alike.
     
  13. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    ...
     

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  14. Phil Ayesho

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    Where did you get that picture of me?
     
  15. Flashy

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    why don't you show the republicans how to properly repudiate that which you disagree with? After all, you voted for Republican Presidents three times in your illustrious voting career. repudiate away Phil, the sometimes fascist republican.
     
  16. Corius

    Corius New Member

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    Let's not play fast and loose with the language. Yes, a patriot is one who loves his country; or more precisely, one who loves the fathers of his country (I do include the ladies here as well although they were not admitted to the "club" for a long time.) I loved my own father but my father was wise enough never to assume that I would agree with him in all things. I love what the Founding Fathers of the country have bequeathed to me in the Founding Documents: the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. I also love them for the institutions which they set up and their acceptance of the value of reason, of deliberation, and of
    compromise in arriving at public policy. I DO NOT, HOWEVER, ACCEPT THE PUBLIC POLICY WHICH THEY FORMULATED. They accepted slavery, limited suffrage, the subordination of women under law, etc. etc. What was good enough (because it was the best possible at that time) for the fathers in the past is inadequate for the present. OUR HERITAGE FROM THE FOUNDING FATHERS INCLUDES WHAT THEY DID RIGHT BUT IT ALSO INCLUDES THE SINS THEY COMMITTED AS WELL.

    Fortunately, for us, what the fathers have done is not a completed work. The lofty goals set forth in the Preamble to the Constituion have not yet been attained. America is a work in progress and we are all invited to have a part in that work. I like to think that all of us accept the idea of working for A MORE PERFECT UNION, to ESTABLISH JUSTICE for all, for real DOMESTIC TRANQUILLITY. an adequate COMMON DEFENSE, the GENERAL WELFARE which includes everyone's welfare, and for a special concern that THE BLESSINGS OF LIBERTY FOR OURSELVES AND OUR POSTERITY shall have real meaning in the present and as a promise for the future.

    We have made progress, but we have also had periods in our history where we have lost ground. The dissenters of the past have kept us at the task; many have kept the dream of America as the sweet land of liberty and justice for all alive and some have paid for their efforts with their lives. Keeping hope alive has not been easy and a great majority of Americans have felt that this country is headed in a wrong direction.

    If the election indicates that we in America are ready to redeem the promise that is America, we must all be ready to do our part. The dissenters in our history have often over time come to be viewed as prophets because they read the signs of the times better than others.
     
  17. Flashy

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    you are forgetting, it is Phil.

    he does not actually read your posts, he just attacks whenever he feels like the world of graphic design is not rewarding enough for him and he needs to go off on a screed, to continue to cleanse himself of having to remember he voted for Reagan, lending his voice to the rise of the religious right.
    He is just mad at himself for starting it all. He voted For Bush1 as well, which is even more ironic, because the likelihood is that if GHWBush had never been elected in 1988, GWBush likely would never have been elected 12 years later...

    so Phil is actually indirectly one of those responsible for the last 8 years, and is obviously angry and experiencing self-loathing and is upset enough to desperately try to distance himself from the truth of where his cast votes have led.


    Nice going Phil.
     
  18. curious n str8

    curious n str8 New Member

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    Very well said SCscoccerMom :You_Rock_Emoticon: would it be sexist of me to compliment you on your :boobies: :flirt: :naughty:
     
  19. Flashy

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    uh oh...no offense here soccer mom, but Phil is likely about to go absolutely crazy on your post. His rage should be appearing in this thread within a few minutes...right now he is likely red in the face, banging away on the keyboard with a sneer on his face, wishing that each keystroke was a poison dart he fired at you which would cause you to fall into paralysis and a well-deserved death, since he does not agree with you and you will probably get called a fascist too.

    Just a warning...Phil hates everyone who does not agree with him...especially conservatives...(unless you are Ronald Reagan, who he voted for in 1980)

    good luck...you're in for a long night :biggrin1:
     
  20. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    Let's clear this up. It was Biden and Not Obama who made the remark regarding Patriotic and Taxes. And he didn't say it was Patriotic to pay MORE taxes. As many times as the Mccain/Palin ticket repeated it , it is simply NOT true. He said it was Patriotic to pay YOUR taxes.........there's a difference.
     
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