Who does Canada think it is?

[davec94]

I'd like a little feedback on this guys & gals;

Two years ago a twenty something year old man robbed and killed the owner of a local pawn shop. He fled to Canada where he was caught by local authorities. Canada would not turn him over to us unless we promised not to seek the death penealty. Well in todays paper I see where we rolled over to their demands.
My questions is, do you think another country has any right to hold and stipulate the punishment of a fugitive from another country? After all he committed the crime in our country not theirs, we shouldn't have to abide by their laws.

I'm looking forward to reponse.

Canada would be defeating their own moral position on the death penalty if they were to send him back to be executed. Canada does not have the right to dictate what punishment the US levies on its own citizens, but it does have the right, even under their extradition treaty with the US, to not give the person up to the US if the punishment would be grossly beyond the sentence the criminal would recieve in Candada.
So in the end, you don't have to abide by Canada's laws, but Canada wont give this guy to you if you are going execute him. Don't like it? Declare war and take him by force, otherwise this.
The US decided to forego the death penalty, Canada only made it a condition for extradition, a condition which is well known to the Americans because they were there negotiating the treaty.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Don't like it? Declare war.

Please ... until January of next year, there are certain ideas we don't want to export south.
(j/k)

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

What was this guys crime?

It's in the OP, phe.

Two years ago a twenty something year old man robbed and killed the owner of a local pawn shop.

 

[tomthelad91]

This discussion in summary:

Canada 1 - USA 0

I think its ashame that you get these idiots south of the border who get all aggravated because their favourite gun just broke and their house got re-possessed, and they can't afford to pay for a heart transplant cause of their lack of National Health Service and their KFC based diet, that they come on here and use the only thing they've got left; being patriotic.

I know plenty of educated Americans who whole heartedly agree with eradicating the death penalty.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

That kind of rhetoric doesn't really help elevate the discussion, though, does it, Pierre?

 

[marleyisalegend]

wow didn't realise that the USA STILL had the death penalty. Thought they only did that in those backwards countries that america is intent on saving/destroying.

nope, those backwards countries that america is intent on destroying is actually where we get most of our policies, economically, judicially, etc... don't you know that the US has to read their enemies handbook before we destroy them, where else would we get our latest policies from?? i'm not anti-american obviously being one myself but the hypocrisy of my country is so obvious it almost scares me that some don't recognize it.

 

[B_phe1249]

This discussion in summary:

Canada 1 - USA 0

I think its ashame that you get these idiots south of the border who get all aggravated because their favourite gun just broke and their house got re-possessed, and they can't afford to pay for a heart transplant cause of their lack of National Health Service and their KFC based diet, that they come on here and use the only thing they've got left; being patriotic.

I know plenty of educated Americans who whole heartedly agree with eradicating the death penalty.

Pierre.. again. Fuck You. I dont want to see your cheap frog self in Fla this winter complaining about how much the early bird dinner special is either. Also when your seniors have health issues do not send them to our hospitals because your National Health coverage doesnt pay.. sticking those of us who do with the bill.

The fact of the matter is the United States is a soverign Nation. There are borders and laws. How we choose to handle the crimes and punishment of your citizens is our business not yours.

As for KFC diets.. I understand your frustration and how you must throw simple insults.. after all your just a meaningless group of loyalist that chose the wrong side and only has a place in the world playing field because most of your population lives along our border.

 

[B_phe1249]

Can I count NAFTA?


Nafta is so history once our election is over...

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

The fact of the matter is the United States is a soverign Nation. There are borders and laws. How we choose to handle the crimes and punishment of your citizens is our business not yours.

You don't get the point. So is Canada, when holding someone whom another nation wishes to extradite.

As for KFC diets.. I understand your frustration and how you must throw simple insults.. after all your just a meaningless group of loyalist that chose the wrong side and only has a place in the world playing field because most of your population lives along our border.

Debatable and a pretty cheap remark that does your country no honor.
If you deplore 'simple insults,' then don't throw them yourself.
(I'm not really defending Pierre, who's going a little overboard himself.)

Nafta is so history once our election is over...

Not at all, phe. You've just seen a little posturing on that issue on your side of the border.
You'll see.

 

[dong20]

Oh please we are not terrorists.

Well, if one defines terrorism according to the US State Department, terrorism is:

"Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant* targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."

* This includes civilians and crucially, off duty military personnel.

I'd say there's wiggle room for making a case, of a sort.

Countries with the death Penalty:
China, Iran, North Korea, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Belarus, America

Actually that list is far from complete. However the US is also a member of a shrinking but far more despicable club.

Since 2000, only five countries in the world are known to have executed juvenile offenders: China, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Iran, Pakistan, and the United States. Pakistan and China have abolished the juvenile death penalty, but there have been problems in nationwide compliance with the law. - Amnesty International.

I digress.

Pouting aside, the US needs to ask itself how would justice be best served in this case? Dig in its heels and see the man go free (he had committed no crime in Canada, presumably) or accept that US law does not trump Canadian law, see him extradited and punished to the full extent of US law short of execution?

Which scenario do you imagine the relatives of his victim would prefer, and ultimately that's important too, isn't it?

 

[canuck_pa]

Dear phe,

There's an old saying you may wish to consider:

"It's better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and proof it."

On some issues Canadians have a different set of values than Americans. You may not respect some of our values as I might not respect some of your's, but I respect your right to have them. I expect no less from you. I don't believe capital punishment is morally right. Our government has the right to hold a fugitive from a foreign country if they would face possible death in their own country.

In regards to our national health, there are certainly problems which I hope will be corrected but at least in Canada no one has to declare bankruptcy because they can't pay their medical bills. Some Canadians do travel to the US for medical treatment. That's a choice they can make. At times our health system sends people to the US for treatment but their bills are covered by our health plan. There have also been many cases of American citizens moving to Canada, staying until they qualify for our health coverage, get they treatment then move back to the US. And guess who pays the bill?

 

[westy30004]

I haven't read all of the posts...sorry if this has already been mentioned....but I would have no problem if the murderers would go to Canada to do their killing...Heck I'm for emptying death row in most states and sending them all there....along with the molestors and rapists.

Then everything would be ok...right?

They could store them in all the empty halls for Canadian War Heroes...since they are empty.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I haven't read all of the posts...sorry if this has already been mentioned....but I would have no problem if the murderers would go to Canada to do their killing...Heck I'm for emptying death row in most states and sending them all there....along with the molestors and rapists.

Then everything would be ok...right?

Or maybe they would become law-abiding, since our citizenry is so much less violent.

They could store them in all the empty halls for Canadian War Heroes...since they are empty.

No, not empty.
But Americans simply don't know such facts about other nations.
And nothing wrong with that.
You are in a sense a center of the universe ... and that would make almost anyone, Canadians no less than Americans, a bit oblivious of the wider world.

But do we actually have halls for Canadian War heroes? I don't think so. I think our monuments are pretty much all outdoors.
Now, there's the Canadian War Museum ... but it's not all about the heroics of war, westy.
Not sure you would understand that.

 

[westy30004]

My GOD....how have I missed the Garden of Eden north of our border? No wonder murders, sniveling French wannabes, and draft dodgers love it there....

 

[canuck_pa]

Well, well, well.

Dear little Westy, aren't you just precious!

Empty halls for Canadian War Heroes? There so much I could say right now that would prove you wrong, but instead I'll just make one comment.

Read the old saying in post #31.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

My GOD....how have I missed the Garden of Eden north of our border? No wonder murders, sniveling French wannabes, and draft dodgers love it there....

Not nearly as many murders as in your country.
Sniveling French wannabes? If you mean the seven million Canadians who are native speakers of French, I'm not sure there's anything 'wannabe' about them.
Draft dodgers? Sure ... they're all American.
Often very principled and accomplished people.

In no sense a Garden of Eden ... just a civilized Western country with the degree of civility that is normal and expected ... in Europe, say.

 

[DaveyR]

Or maybe they would become law-abiding, since our citizenry is so much less violent.



No, not empty.
But Americans simply don't know such facts about other nations.
And nothing wrong with that.
You are in a sense a center of the universe ... and that would make almost anyone, Canadians no less than Americans, a bit oblivious of the wider world.

But do we actually have halls for Canadian War heroes? I don't think so. I think our monuments are pretty much all outdoors.
Now, there's the Canadian War Museum ... but it's not all about the heroics of war, westy.
Not sure you would understand that.

It's about time we had a thanks button installed for posts on this board :wink:

 

[westy30004]

yes...condescending nature from a french canadian...who would have guessed? that is so unlike them....

 

[westy30004]

How does all canadians walk upright without a backbone?

 

[DaveyR]

How does all canadians walk upright without a backbone?

You see that is where you just totally lost any credibility. Insults are the sure sign of an argument lost.