Who is responsible for the meltdown?

D

deleted15807

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Star, as I'm sure you know, there's a growing body of criticism now that suggests that Iraq has not made us any "safer", so why should I (or anybody) jump onto your soapbox to "appreciate freedom" when the concept of freedom has little or nothing to do the Iraqi adventure?


Has made us less safe, has created more terrorists, has fueled terrorism.

The Iraq war has helped recruit "supporters for the global jihadist movement," the 2006 U.S. National Intelligence Estimate says.

How long did Bush and Cheney go on trying to link 9/11 and Saddam? A mighty mighty long time until finally no one believed it anymore except the 24% that still approved of his performance when he left. So expect 'star' to do the same.
 

B_starinvestor

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YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHIT.
Why don't you put up or shut up......and join the military for a hitch yourself?
Other People you SAY you know had there OWN individual services to their country.
Those services were NOT yours......
Call me an.......Honorably Discharged 4 year veteran of the US NAVY 1980-1984.
YOU BLOWHARD SCHMUCK.

Under the Reagan Administration, eh?

Kudos to you - seriously. Serving under the best president in 150 years must have been an amazing memory. Thank you for your service, and you should be proud of serving in the most prolific and effective military establishment in world history.
 

D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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star: "Look at the animal kingdom. In nature, the wounded deer is prey for the predator. I feel sorry for the deer. You feel sorry for the deer. But the deer will never have a say in nature.

We can mourn for the weak and plea for the rights of the weak, but our society will be dominated by the lion if we submit to those emotions."

--------------------

Star, you inherently seem to be saying that the United States can't be a noble nation. Can't be a nation that rises above torture and propoganda and aggressively pursuing its self-interests. You seem to be comparing great nations to one's who'll give into base animal natures for "survival".
 

B_starinvestor

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YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHIT.
Why don't you put up or shut up......and join the military for a hitch yourself?
Other People you SAY you know had there OWN individual services to their country.
Those services were NOT yours......
Call me an.......Honorably Discharged 4 year veteran of the US NAVY 1980-1984.
YOU BLOWHARD SCHMUCK.

you are right, they served and I didn't. Never claimed to hold myself to that level.

On another note, there are a few usages of the word "there"

They're - they are
Their - possessive
There - I drove over 'there'

You use 'there' for all three. Just sayin.
 

B_24065

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starinvestor (to Guy-jin): "Don't fucking lecture me on sacrifice and imply that I evaluate the war on dollars and cents. I could give two fucks about money, and maybe you ought re-evaluate your fucking perception and appreciation of freedom."

--------------------


Star, as I'm sure you know, there's a growing body of criticism now that suggests that Iraq has not made us any "safer", so why should I (or anybody) jump onto your soapbox to "appreciate freedom" when the concept of freedom has little or nothing to do the Iraqi adventure?


Has made us less safe, has created more terrorists, has fueled terrorism.

The Iraq war has helped recruit "supporters for the global jihadist movement," the 2006 U.S. National Intelligence Estimate says.

Whether we leave Iraq tomorrow or next year or 2011, there is still a reservoir of hatred out there among not just the jihadist extremists, but also among muslim moderates. Remember, pre-emptively invading their country was a mistake, partially owned up to by GWB himself.


From the Associated Press, October, 2004:


Bush, Cheney admit Iraq had no WMD, take new tack

They cite oil-for-food scam as justification for invasion
By Scott Lindlaw

ASSOCIATED PRESS
October 8, 2004

WASHINGTON – President Bush and his vice president conceded yesterday in the clearest terms yet that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, trying to shift the Iraq war debate to a new issue – whether the invasion was justified because Hussein was abusing a U.N. oil-for-food program.

Bush's response was his first reaction to a report released Wednesday by Charles Duelfer, the CIA's top weapons inspector, that contradicted the White House's main argument for invading Iraq.

Ridiculing the Bush administration's evolving rationale for war, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry said, "You don't make up or find reasons to go to war after the fact."

--------------------

Later, Bush would say that it didn't matter if Iraq had WMD or not, because Iraq had now "become the central front on the war on terror". But what good does having a "central front" do -- when you end up creating more terrorists than you destroy?

It never ceases to amaze me how liberals are unable to see the forrest because of the trees. If you truly think that a democratic Iraq is more dangerous to the US then a Saddam or post-saddam regime then you validate every bit of criticism that flies your way about having your head up your ass.

The Iraq was HAS made the US safer not because we found the nukes or because Saddam was gonna bomb us. We are safer because a young democracy now exists in a region that breeds hate against the US and the West. Radical slam is a cancer that has spread throughout europe already (and we are gonna see massive ramifications of this in the next 20 years). The only hope we have to stop this spread is; 1. Nuke'em all and rid the world of these people or 2. allow them to change from within by giving them a taste of something they've never had before...freedom. I've always believed that the Iraq war was a forward seeing (i know liberals dont know what that means) endeavor to attempt to transform the middle east with democracy.
 

B_starinvestor

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star: "Look at the animal kingdom. In nature, the wounded deer is prey for the predator. I feel sorry for the deer. You feel sorry for the deer. But the deer will never have a say in nature.

We can mourn for the weak and plea for the rights of the weak, but our society will be dominated by the lion if we submit to those emotions."

--------------------

Star, you inherently seem to be saying that the United States can't be a noble nation. Can't be a nation that rises above torture and propoganda and aggressively pursuing its self-interests. You seem to be comparing great nations to one's who'll give into base animal natures for "survival".

Never said that. But will present this question, "how many countries exist in the world? .... and why is the U.S. the most powerful economic, political, military, and technologically advanced among those?

Truly? How do you answer that? Particularly given the fact that we have only existed for 233 years? And...in that same virtue...name a nation that has a reputation that is more noble than us...
 

B_24065

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Actually I wrote it and yes I did post it there too, since it was germane to that discussion also. I duly noted in quotations the relevant quotes from a variety of sources. I'm sorry if giving the actual sources irritates you, but I deal with facts not opinion.

And actually it's all easily verifiable history, sorry if the truth does not fit well with your alternate reality. That is not my fault, either you can accept reality or live in denial, the choice is yours. :smile:


3664, i made the exact same case back in october on this site and i learned that truth and facts just seem to irritate the libs. they cant handle them. No matter what you say its Bush's fault. I just cant wait to see how the defend Obama when we have out of control inflation and 12% unemployment next year. It will somehow still be Bush's fault even though Obama won election by promising the country he could fix if we elect him.
 

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you are right, they served and I didn't. Never claimed to hold myself to that level.

On another note, there are a few usages of the word "there"

They're - they are
Their - possessive
There - I drove over 'there'

You use 'there' for all three. Just sayin.

You've never served anything in your life except yourself, the food your MOTHER paid for.
OH PLEASE........lecture me on spelling.
What YOU think of MY service to my country means NOTHING to me. I SERVED.......YEAH thats right.....a fucking LIBERAL who ACTUALLY served.
Lame Ass.
 

B_starinvestor

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2. allow them to change from within by giving them a taste of something they've never had before...freedom. I've always believed that the Iraq war was a forward seeing (i know liberals dont know what that means) endeavor to attempt to transform the middle east with democracy.

Imagine living in a cave, starving, with no means of education or self-advancement. Or being a woman, no chance of learning, showing yourself in public, educating yourself.

I would think that liberals would love the opportunities that are now available for women and children in Iraq...yet their hatred for Bush supercedes any fruitful opportunities for those kids -- whose parents and grandparents had no chance at reading, believing anything, freedom, independence, medical care or choice.

Now - you have books, education, medical services, hospitals with skilled staff, freedom to vote, choices, careers. The liberals will defend Palestinians that fire missiles at women and children, but won't acknowledge an Iraqi child that has a chance at education and choice in life -- only because Bush was involved.

Its so sad. It really is. The pleas for equal rights. The pleas for equality. Yet innocent children of Iraq are dismissed by the entire left, because of their hatred for George Bush.

50 million Iraqis that now have a chance in life. The liberals don't give two shits about a damn one of them, because they can't get beyond their hatred of George Bush.

I guess Iraqi kids, their parents, cousins, aunts, uncles...don't mean a God Damn thing because George Bush tried to save them.

Well, I for one think those kids deserve a chance at life, a chance to make decisions, a chance to elect their own leaders, a chance to get education and medical treatment.

The liberals think it was better off with Hussein in charge.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.
 

B_24065

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Kool-aid drinking liberal? I thought you were the black guy...


What the Fuck is this suppose to mean? Is this another example of how Liberals are far more rascist and stereotypical than those on the right? Well, fuck you asshole. Im Black, conservative, and proud of it. I dont want or need any Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, or Oprah telling me i need a fuckin hand because of something evil whites did to my great great great great great grandparents. Fuck that shit. This is the greatest country God ever gave man. Thats what you liberals dont get. each is responsible for ones self. The only thing holding Black people back is ourselves. If ever i were ashamed to black, this would be why.
 

B_VinylBoy

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What the Fuck is this suppose to mean? Is this another example of how Liberals are far more rascist and stereotypical than those on the right? Well, fuck you asshole. Im Black, conservative, and proud of it. I dont want or need any Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, or Oprah telling me i need a fuckin hand because of something evil whites did to my great great great great great grandparents. Fuck that shit. This is the greatest country God ever gave man. Thats what you liberals dont get. each is responsible for ones self. The only thing holding Black people back is ourselves. If ever i were ashamed to black, this would be why.

Did you paraphrase this from Uncle Ruckus from The Boondocks or something? :rolleyes:
 

lucky8

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Kool-aid drinking liberal? I thought you were the black guy...


What the Fuck is this suppose to mean? Is this another example of how Liberals are far more rascist and stereotypical than those on the right? quote]

Nope, merely demonstrating how redundant it is to characterize someone based on one statement...
 

B_starinvestor

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Did you paraphrase this from Uncle Ruckus from The Boondocks or something? :rolleyes:

Best show of all time. The humor is really well thought out. Remember when Uncle Ruckus's DNA test came back - 102% black with a 2% margin of error? They have some great creativity on that show, esp. the BET bits.

I hope you can laugh at that stuff:smile:
 

pym

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Kool-aid drinking liberal? I thought you were the black guy...


What the Fuck is this suppose to mean? Is this another example of how Liberals are far more rascist and stereotypical than those on the right? Well, fuck you asshole. Im Black, conservative, and proud of it. I dont want or need any Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, or Oprah telling me i need a fuckin hand because of something evil whites did to my great great great great great grandparents. Fuck that shit. This is the greatest country God ever gave man. Thats what you liberals dont get. each is responsible for ones self. The only thing holding Black people back is ourselves. If ever i were ashamed to black, this would be why.
IF YOU ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN..........SO AM I.
 

B_starinvestor

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IF YOU ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN..........SO AM I.

Wow, you're really going out there, PYM. Just because 24065 is patriotic and educated you think its ridiculous and outlandish that he's black?

You should be ashamed of yourself. I work and socialize with many African Americans that are intelligent, well-educated and good friends.

Grow up, dude.
 

pym

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Wow, you're really going out there, PYM. Just because 24065 is patriotic and educated you think its ridiculous and outlandish that he's black?

You should be ashamed of yourself. I work and socialize with many African Americans that are intelligent, well-educated and good friends.

Grow up, dude.
You don't work and you do not socialize.......You live here 24/7 x 365.....all Day all Night.
I have definatively judged You already, by the psycho's you attract and agree with here.
 

B_starinvestor

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You don't work and you do not socialize.......You live here 24/7 x 365.....all Day all Night.
I have definatively judged You already, by the psycho's you attract and agree with here.

You're a 1/4 right. I'm semi-retired, but I do socialize a lil bit. Leave black's alone, dude.