Who is to blame if you aren't successful?

D_Rosalind Mussell

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Success is achieved through a blend of circumstances. If one of those circumstances suddenly bottoms out from under you then one could easily find themselves on the losing end of things.

Banks played a major part in the economic breakdown in the U.S. (read: mortgage fraud), as are the insurance companies. Plenty of blame to go around and it's time they stepped up to help repair the damage they've done.
 

AlphaMale

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Two words: Wealth Distribution

99% of the wealth is controlled by 1% of the population.

If you're in the 99% of the population who is fighting over the remaining 1% of the wealth out there just to survive, then good luck catching up. They've had centuries worth of time of a head start on you.

Everything bad about this country will remain the same unless the wealth distribution changes.
 

Meniscus

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Not even close! Every member of the Tea Party is a solid individual, most of them work, take time off from work to do what they're doing.

I believe that the Tea Party began as a series of protests against Obama's stimulus bill and the bank bailouts, in the belief that the voices of American citizens were being drowned out by lobbyists and corporate interests. In that respect, they have much in common with the Occupy Wall Street protesters. The key difference is that the Tea Party is heavily funded by big money, informed by conservative think tanks, and promoted by corporate media, particularly Fox News. Hence they may be more "astroturf" than grassroots.

astroturf: a form of propaganda whose techniques usually consist of a few people attempting to give the impression that mass numbers of enthusiasts advocate some specific cause.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturf_(politics)

This is why many of the original participants grew disillusioned with the movement and Tea Party rallies now attract very few people. The ones who do show up seem to be uneducated, not politically or economically savvy, and more than a little bit racist.

They can't answer the question, "What is your agenda? What do you want?" All they can say is, "Well, we hate the banks! Punish the banks!" It's a joke.

I don't think the Tea Party ever really had a clear agenda, either, they've just put out recycled rhetoric about lower taxes and small government.

In contrast, many of the people participating in Occupy Wall St. seem to have a fairly sophisticated understanding of the political and economic issues and want to have those issues addressed, but you won't see them on Fox News, or very many other corporate media outlets, for that matter.

Below is a link to their statement explaining that they stand in opposition to mass injustice by corporate forces.
Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly
 
7

798686

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Success is achieved through a blend of circumstances. If one of those circumstances suddenly bottoms out from under you then one could easily find themselves on the losing end of things.
Good post! :smile:
 
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Thanks. Success isn't as finite as many would like to think.

Unfortunately, the economic downturn kicked the legs out from too many of the circumstances that made my husband and I financially successful so I'm with the OWS people. We don't need handouts, we need change.

Very well said!!!
 

B_nyvin

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"at fault" for being successful is an oxymoron....it's almost sounding as if there's "blame" for being successful.

"responsible for the person's success" would be much more logical.
 

ColonialBoy

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These idiots are out there blaming banks???? banks??? Do you idiots even know what banks do????

From an Australian point of view, the Wall Street banks caused a near collapse of the US economic system, which was only rescued by government intervention.

And no banker was sent to jail for causing a $2 trillion problem.
 

Mensch1351

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rather an irony to accuse the poor of exploiting their position of poverty to extort money from the rich when the rich have been using their position of power to extort money from the poor for centuries.


If you can cut this thought down to bumper sticker size -- I'll buy!!
 

errico

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Two words: Wealth Distribution

99% of the wealth is controlled by 1% of the population.

If you're in the 99% of the population who is fighting over the remaining 1% of the wealth out there just to survive, then good luck catching up. They've had centuries worth of time of a head start on you.

Everything bad about this country will remain the same unless the wealth distribution changes.


I'm not sure if that is quite right.

"In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had...42.7%."

From:
Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

More With Infographics!
It's the Inequality, Stupid | Mother Jones
 

Mensch1351

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I posted this under the Herman Cain section, but decided to post it again here after the this thread got started!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Croix68

If you aren't successful, it is no one's fault but your own. Cain is right on that.

THAT is one of the biggest loads of "bullpuckey" anyone can throw at a person! I went to a potential employer's presentation about 9 years ago. 5 millionaires who pooled their money and were training people how to find & buy under-valued homes that would produce at least a $20-25,000 profit. These homes were from: foreclosures; divorces; elderly etc. For every "closing" you would get a $5,000 commission. In our 2 state Metro area at that time, we were told there were at least 247 foreclosures alone PER MONTH! Great potential. You should at LEAST be able to successfully find and close on a minimum of 8 homes per year netting you $40,000 minimum. IF you paid them (up front) a $1,600 fee -- these guys would assign a personal counselor to you to train you, answer questions and put you on a faster track at finding these "types" of homes, doing minimal "quick" fixes and getting them back on the market within 30 days. If you paid the fee, they promised you 1/2 of whatever you made on the sale!! It wasn't a "scheme" -- all legit and from THEIR end -- having 50 or 60 people putting a minimum of $20K in THEIR pocket with each home found and quickly re-sold, I'm sure the pyramid effect would work out quite well. THEY had the cash to make it happen.

The man started his presentation with these words, "There are the ignorant poor and the lazy poor -- which are you?" I could feel the hair on the back of my neck stand up! I was purely outraged.

FIRST --- not everyone is given the same degree of "smarts." Just think of your high school class. Out of any random 100 students, maybe 20% were in the "upper" echelon of brain power/IQ. The next 50 or so were "average" and the bottom 30 were lucky to graduate! It doesn't mean the "ignorant" are destined to be poor, but in "my" day, those 30 people were destined for the 5 "M's" the Military, the Mines, the Mills, Manufacturing, or "Misc" (like working at roofing, the Grocery Store, bartending, etc. etc). A non-college bound person could actually make a decent living in any of those 5 areas. They were literally more "gunt" work than having a "titled" career, but you could make pretty decent money without the smarts. Depending on your definition of "successful" -- none of those people were destined to become wealthy. They would be lucky to "own" a car, a house or both someday.

But what happens to those people who could not AFFORD college and after 10+ years in their jobs -- their job suddenly goes away? What are they trained to do OTHER than what they have been doing? If they believed their jobs would BE THERE for a long time, perhaps they didn't save for the express purpose of furthering their education. Some hated school to begin with and couldn't see "wanting" to go to night school or vocational school. Ignorant? Lazy? Or just busy living their lives falling in love, having babies, finding small pleasures in hobbies and making just enough to make ends meet. And when your job ends because of "downsizing" or "out-sourcing" -- how do you psychologically handle losing that part of you that helped to define who you were? Not everyone is prepared to just "pick up the pieces" and move on. They were not given those type of emotional survival skills. And if you're left a single mother with 3 kids in a messy divorce and you've been "out" of the workforce for 10 years, how do you start over meeting your new obligations? Waitressing? Typing & Filing? Cleaning Houses? And what do you do with your children while you're out trying to find a job -- or working 2 jobs to make ends meet? Ignorant? Lazy? And what if in any of this life -- either male or female you get a major illness or one of your children gets severely ill. Did your job provide good health insurance? How much does your 20% amount to in a situation of desperate or chronic illness? And if you have little saved -- what do you do with a new obligation of thousands of dollars of medical bills and drug costs? Ignorant? Lazy? Or trapped like a rat in the unfortunate circumstances of life that come at you blind-sided and unanticipated!

And I'm not saying that these people I've mentioned above are not "successful" in some ways: They may be a faithful friend, a really good neighbor, a tremendously competent mother or father. Success in LIFE has to be measured in more ways than simply finances!

Finally -- we live in a nation and at a time in history that severely under-values the skills of many professions. CNA's in nursing homes make horrible salaries. THESE are the people taking care of grandma's and grandpa's whose wealth might be able to BUY the nursing home they live in outright! But the people who SERVE them? Little more than slaves! Lazy? Ignorant? Or just undervalued. And there are too many jobs out there like this. A teacher with a Master's Degree starting out may make $35K a year. Their POTENTIAL, even after 20+ years of service MAY reach $60K a year. They are NOT destined to become wealthy. Successful? Well that depends on 1000+ variables governing their lives.

And Herman Cain ---- had you worked for Enron for 35 years and were told ONE month that you had $700,000 in your retirement account and the NEXT month you were told you had NOTHING --- how can you even dare to say that if you're not successful, it's YOUR fault? How about Companies that declared bankruptcy just so they could get out from under paying out their retirements to faithful employees with years of service??

And finally from my own experience of life. I've watched people close on deals worth $500K -- but on their way home, a little blood vessel in their brain just "snapped" and within weeks someone was wiping drool from their mouth and changing their diapers!

For those of you who think you've really really "made it" on YOUR OWN. Don't be deceived. Your abilities were a gift -- and you were not only to use that gift for your OWN benefit -- but also for the benefit of your neighbor. As I told my son when he was 15: "I'll consider YOU a success in life if there are 1,000 people at your funeral!"

In 2012 I strongly suggest 2 movies that drive home the "stuff" of life:
Scrooge & You can't take it with you!

God Herman -- wake up and just talk to people -- hear their stories! You might become one of the truly enlightened ones!
 

AlphaMale

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I'm not sure if that is quite right.

"In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had...42.7%."

From:
Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

More With Infographics!
It's the Inequality, Stupid | Mother Jones

We're not talking about just net worth or the value of one's home here. We're talking about all the wealth involved in the economy in anyway (i.e.
all things that have a monetary or exchange value and anything that has utility and is capable of being appropriated or exchanged).

The statistic I quoted is exactly what they teach you in business college.
 
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Klingsor

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We're not talking about just net worth or the value of one's home here. We're talking about all the wealth involved in the economy in anyway (i.e. all things that have a monetary or exchange value and anything that has utility and is capable of being appropriated or exchanged.

The statistic I quoted is exactly what they teach you in business college.

A source would still be helpful. Business college has a certain vested interest in making the top 1% look attractive.
 
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AlphaMale

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A source would still be helpful. Business college has a certain vested interest in making the top 1% look attractive.

The source(s) should be your eyes, ears, and brain.

If you want a better source than that, well then I don't believe I can give it to you.

==

Besides, it doesn't make the "top 1%" look attractive at all to say that they control 99% of the wealth in America. It makes them look like greedy, heartless bastards.

In fact, "top 1%" implies that there is some statistical analysis behind it to determine who it actually is. It's just "1%" of the popluation "controls" 99% of the wealth. The key word is "controls", i.e. who's making the decisions. It doesn't mean you can analyze net worth, annual income, etc. to determine who's actually in that 1% making the decisions about what to do with the US's wealth. Think "behind the scenes".

There's a reason for websites like the one that BBW36 linked. I'm not just making this up.
 
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AlphaMale

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Klingsor

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The source(s) should be your eyes, ears, and brain.

If you want a better source than that, well then I don't believe I can give it to you.

==

Besides, it doesn't make the "top 1%" look attractive at all to say that they control 99% of the wealth in America. It makes them look like greedy, heartless bastards.

In fact, "top 1%" implies that there is some statistical analysis behind it to determine who it actually is. It's just "1%" of the popluation "controls" 99% of the wealth. The key word is "controls", i.e. who's making the decisions. It doesn't mean you can analyze net worth, annual income, etc. to determine who's actually in that 1% making the decisions about what to do with the US's wealth. Think "behind the scenes".

There's a reason for websites like the one that BBW36 linked. I'm not just making this up.

I'm well aware that there is an alarming disparity of wealth in this country, and that it's a serious problem. There is enough solid documentation of that fact so as not to require unsubstantiated embellishment.

Believe me, there are plenty of people who have no problem at all with the 1% having so much control. They're called Republicans, and they're either among that 1% or aspire to be. From their standpoint, it looks very attractive indeed.