Who is to say what is offensive?

[Osiris]

Since this is a totally different post, I didn't want to include it in my other post.

I believe it is good to celebrate the good things of our culture and our past. America is a nation of people who came here for a better life. The exception are the Africans who were brought here by force. Some of the Africans were slaves to Africans in Africa. In those days when a group lost a war to another group, some people were made slaves to the people that won the war. What happened to those Africans is horrible beyond imagination. Some of the Africans died in route to America. Africans were dealt the worst hand of any ethnic group that now makes up present day America.

But African-Americans have much to celebrate just like all other ethnic groups. All ethnic groups here in America enjoy a better standard of living that there distant cousins in the home countries. That is beginning to change in Europe. But back then, Europeans largely came here looking for a better life than what they could have back home..Many of those Europeans had a very rough life settling here in our nation.

The ethnic Chinese here is America were in inhumane situations when they first came to this country some almost 200 years ago.

The lives of many Hispanics here in America is below the poverty line, but still it is better than what they had in Mexico.

Most ethnic groups celebrate the rough conditions that their ancestors went through so that there children, grandchildren etc could have a good life here in America.

The African-Americans are no exception. Listen to the spiritual songs they sang. The words are about hope and eventual freedom. Those African-Americans who suffered so much also had a great hope for freedom some day.

Today African-Americans enjoy a much better standard of living here in America than their distant cousins in parts of Africa do. It is only right that the descendants of those African-American celebrate the sacrifices of those ancestors however they wish to.

The African-American culture has given so much to our American culture. Much of what the world considers as "original" American art and music is heavily influenced by African-Americans. Why not celebrate the good things that come from the past?

Many of our immigrants came from eastern Europe at a time (late 19th century) when that part of Europe was ruled by an empire, Austrian-Hungarian Empire, that they despised. They came to America for a better life for them and their children.

No matter how we all got here, we all share some common components of various cultures that we brought with us when we came.

It is fitting that African culture elements are not being celebrated as equal to the European culture elements.

As far as Naughty's avatar goes, I see it as someone to be referred because she represents the women who held it together for the family and taught the family the culture and desire to someday have a better life and to work toward that goal.

And European-Americans have cause to celebrate because so much our our culture today comes from the African-American culture particularly in music. Much of the music sung in white churches today is directly traced to African culture.

I've always said America is not a melting pot, but a big church dinner. Everybody brings a good dish to the table and shares. This thread is kind of an example of that. To bad Naughty is at work and will have to catch up when she gets home.

Njqt? :18::18::18: That avatar is hella hilarious!

 

[Osiris]

Unfortunately, there are those that HAVE to play the race card and who will use all manner of guilt and arguement. They do not seem to realize that it is THEM that emphasizes race as a separateness rather than a uniqueness.

I have posted before that my father is American Indian and grew up on a reservation. He has had to deal with racism all his life. I myself have dealt with it from people who think I am white and hate American Indians, and American Indians themselves who hate those that look white and live off the res.

I was raised in a home where we were taught to be proud of our heritage but not to wield it. In other words, don't use it as an excuse for our own behaviour, and don't empower prejudism by using it against others.

In Arizona there was a big debate over an area that had been named "Squaw Peak" long ago. The Indians wanted it changed because the word Squaw is actually considered derogatory by many. Nobody really thought anything about it until the Indians emphasized it, therefore empowering those that would make it into something negative.

Look at what we did to the Japanese during World War II. The Holocaust. The civil wars in Africa. The Crusades. The genocide in Iraq. People will invariably fight against that which they consider different, and as long as we emphasize and use the "differences" rather than celebrate them, there will always be those who are angry.

Collecting pieces and pictures of your heritage is a wonderful thing. It's part of your past, a past which cannot be changed, and something to be proud of. Your people survived and prospered out of a tragic series of events, just as the American Indians and many other races and cultures through out the world have done so for centuries. Political correctness has made us feel guilty and we want to hide what was done like children, rather than keeping it alive in a healthy manner so that we don't do it again.

We are all innocent of what was done to and by our own people in the past. Be proud of who you are and where you come from while respecting others and you can't go wrong.

Just my humble opinion.

And again, this is why I love the woman's posts. :smile:

 

[Quite Irate]

...wait, Naughty's black?

:tongue:

This thread reminds me of something interesting I've noticed with my friends. I've been on the internet and in very rude/crude real life atmospheres so long that I take offense at absolutely nothing. Pictures meant to be shocking/gruesome, extremely racist remarks, etc. Noted, I don't particularly enjoy highly inflammatory content on the internet, but for the most part the people who come up with it don't either, they just enjoy the freedom of being able to post it. In particular, I think it's important to allow yourself to let go of inhibitions if you're ever going to have a sense of humor. Offensive humor is by its very nature the funniest humor there is. Now back to the friends I mentioned. I've been alienated from many friends due to my ability to accept things that they would find horrifying/insulting. People seem to equate this with lack of morality/humanity. In a lot of cases the two go hand in hand, but not with me. People are just afraid to break free from the mold of modern PC society's medieval outlook on life.

 

[Mem]

I have a question. In the past month, I have twice shown avatar's of black women in slave garb. I have expressed my feelings about certain words related to my own ethnicity. I have never in my life received more comments from people outside my own ethnicity about it than here. Explain to me what it is about seeing me in slave garb or showing a picture of a black woman in slave garb that so upsets the nerves here? If I as a black woman chose to put this up as my avatar , who is to tell me how I interpret my ethnicity? I am not in any way making fun of servitude or being black. What is the issue here? Are you reading things into my avatars that are not there? Who is to tell me what is offensive about interpreting my own culture? There is no self hate here. I celebrate the men and women who lived this life and died in silence. If this offends you what does it say about you and how you see the world? Please comment....

If you are allowed it is not because you are black, it is because it is allowed here for everyone to do. No one knows that you are a black woman when they see the avatar, unless you tell them.

I am not offended at what other people do. Live and let live.
The rules have to apply to everyone and if you can post it everyone else can too.

I was warned by a moderator about using the N word. I have never used it here, and I never use it anywhere. When someone tried to explain what a Wigger was (as if anyone asked her) I told them that I though it was wrong that she spelled the N word out.

I also referred to someone by what he mentioned his "shameless" signature. But if this is a problem then he can not have it in his signature. While it does not bother me, we can not have a double standard.

p.s. Naughty I think you are great and I am glad that you are a moderator here.

 

[Mem]

. Uncle Ben and Aunt jemima' smiling faces are symbols of a time when being black was put up for ridicule.

I always saw them as a symbol of kind, smiling faces. I never thought of them as derogatory.

 

[wldhoney]

Would you be offended if I told you that you have priddy boobies?

Nope....makes me feel proud and flattered....:redface: Thank you!

And again, this is why I love the woman's posts. :smile:

Thanks, Osiris! Right back atcha! :wink:

 

[kalipygian]

Mem's W word is new to me, maybe I need to clarify, in my previous post, I meant I got my head chewed off for mentioning watermelon to my friend.

 

[Osiris]

Nope....makes me feel proud and flattered....:redface: Thank you!



Thanks, Osiris! Right back atcha! :wink:

:redface:

Thanks and Vinny is right. You do have pretty twins.

 

[Mem]

I'm gonna go off topic for a bit. I have changed my avatar back to one I had a few months ago. I took it down because someone here whom I truly like and respect was highly offended by it. He saw it as me hindering rather than helping Black people on the whole in America.

I was blindsided by his passionate response to what I just consider to be me, being a diehard Democrat. It's not my fault the media often portrays her as allegedly being an "Uncle Tom." :redface: :tongue:

The word whitey is in you avatar. I don't find it offensive. But others may.
If it was reversed and it referred to the black race (with an ey or y at the end), would it be allowed here?

 

[whatireallywant]

I've always said America is not a melting pot, but a big church dinner. Everybody brings a good dish to the table and shares. This thread is kind of an example of that. To bad Naughty is at work and will have to catch up when she gets home.

Njqt? :18::18::18: That avatar is hella hilarious!

Or, as Richard Lederer pointed out in the book "More Anguished English" (according to a high school English teacher anyway), America is not a melting pot but an ethnic stew. In a stew each ingredient retains its individuality but contributes to the whole: the potatoes retain their potatoness, the carrots retain their carrotness - and the peas retain their peaness. :biggrin1:

(This is the inspiration for my alternate screen name, eth_stew, which I use on sites that are not adult sites but ones I don't want to use my real name, sites like Pokerstars.net and King.com)

 

[Mem]

Grew up in the Florida,

Wow, what extremes from Florida to Alaska.
Too bad, you have a body built for Florida.:biggrin1:

I guess you do not mind the cold.

I hate the cold in the Northeast and hope to move to Florida soon.

 

[naughty]

WOW!


May I say I love you all! This made me feel so good to come home to folks. We all need to just breathe. This is the LPSG that made me join in the first place. Folks having fun, discussing difficult subjects with jokes anecdotes and loving reminiscences. Yes, we have differing opinions and ways of expressing ourselves but we are getting there. I hope I dont sound too Pollyanna about this.

Osiris,

Baby, I am not going to get mad at either you or Vinny. I love it. By the way, Vinny ain't vanilla, he's butterscotch! LOL!

As for Miss Jemima and Mr Ben, they have always represented to me the height of southern hospitality. Who created the cuisine? Who cooked it and who served it? Notice I did call them Miss and Mr. My southern parents taught me to put a "handle" on the name of the elders. :biggrin1:

 

[36DD]

WOW!


May I say I love you all! This made me feel so good to come home to folks. We all need to just breathe. This is the LPSG that made me join in the first place. Folks having fun, discussing difficult subjects with jokes anecdotes and loving reminiscences. Yes, we have differing opinions and ways of expressing ourselves but we are getting there. I hope I dont sound too Pollyanna about this.

Osiris,

Baby, I am not going to get mad at either you or Vinny. I love it. By the way, Vinny ain't vanilla, he's butterscotch! LOL!

As for Miss Jemima and Mr Ben, they have always represented to me the height of southern hospitality. Who created the cuisine? Who cooked it and who served it? Notice I did call them Miss and Mr. My southern parents taught me to put a "handle" on the name of the elders. :biggrin1:

I've always seen them that way too, but then my parents taught me not to see color, so I guess I'm kind of naive in that way. Your parents taught you well too, I see.

 

[Osiris]

WOW!


May I say I love you all! This made me feel so good to come home to folks. We all need to just breathe. This is the LPSG that made me join in the first place. Folks having fun, discussing difficult subjects with jokes anecdotes and loving reminiscences. Yes, we have differing opinions and ways of expressing ourselves but we are getting there. I hope I dont sound too Pollyanna about this.

Osiris,

Baby, I am not going to get mad at either you or Vinny. I love it. By the way, Vinny ain't vanilla, he's butterscotch! LOL!

As for Miss Jemima and Mr Ben, they have always represented to me the height of southern hospitality. Who created the cuisine? Who cooked it and who served it? Notice I did call them Miss and Mr. My southern parents taught me to put a "handle" on the name of the elders. :biggrin1:

I think the fact we all hijacked your thread to a degree must mean we all love you as well. Which i am sure we do. :biggrin1:

 

[Principessa]

Mem's W word is new to me, maybe I need to clarify, in my previous post, I meant I got my head chewed off for mentioning watermelon to my friend.

That brings to mind a funny story. It's August 1996 we are at the Sagra della Bistecca in Cortona, Italy. There is also a street fair and vendors selling all variety of wonderful food. My friend and I buy huge watermelon wedges and happily eat it whilst strolling down the cobblestone streets. I suddenly stop dead in my tracks and say to her, "Oh my God! I'm a walking stereotype!" She spewed watermelon, we both burst out laughing and nobody knew why. I had for 10 brief minutes become the one thing I had avoided my entire life . . . a stereotype. :tongue:

 

[Principessa]

By the way, Vinny ain't vanilla, he's butterscotch! LOL!

I LOVE butterscotch candy and sundaes always have!

 

[DC_DEEP]

<...>
I was raised in a home where we were taught to be proud of our heritage but not to wield it. In other words, don't use it as an excuse for our own behaviour, and don't empower prejudism by using it against others.
<...>
We are all innocent of what was done to and by our own people in the past. Be proud of who you are and where you come from while respecting others and you can't go wrong.

Honey, that's about the best post I have seen in a long time!

<...>
He saw it as me hindering rather than helping Black people on the whole in America.

I was blindsided by his passionate response to what I just consider to be me, being a diehard Democrat.

That's the attitude I don't understand, njqt. She's black, but she's not every black person in America. If you find her (as a person, not as a black person) to be a poor leader in a leadership position, there's nothing in the world wrong with you pointing that out. Apparently, you and I see it that way, but your offended friend does not.

I suddenly stop dead in my tracks and say to her, "Oh my God! I'm a walking stereotype!" She spewed watermelon, we both burst out laughing and nobody knew why. I had for 10 brief minutes become the one thing I had avoided my entire life . . . a stereotype. :tongue:

That's funny, but also a little sad... I'm "a white person," and I love both fried chicken and watermelon. I can easily see why anyone, regardless of race, would enjoy either one. It's frustrating that you can't really enjoy either one without being a "walking stereotype."

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I myself have dealt with it from people who think I am white and hate American Indians, and American Indians themselves who hate those that look white and live off the res.

I can relate.

My wife is latina but is very fair skinned with red hair and freckles. She could easily pass for Irish. Oh, the number of times at parties and neighborhood picnics we've been subjected to racist editorials from people who don't realize shes not white. Its especially painful when it happens with people who we might otherwise have considered friends (until they opened their mouths and revealed their latent racism).

These people always act so surprised when they later learn she's latina and can speak Spanish fluently. They usually come back to us to mumble excuses like: "Oh, I was just kidding, no offense..." or "...Oh, I didn't mean all Mexcans are criminals, so of my best friends are...blah, blah, blah..."

I was raised in a home where we were taught to be proud of our heritage but not to wield it. In other words, don't use it as an excuse for our own behaviour, and don't empower prejudism by using it against others.

Well said. I believe there's strength in quiet dignity. I try to practice it.

In Arizona there was a big debate over an area that had been named "Squaw Peak" long ago. The Indians wanted it changed because the word Squaw is actually considered derogatory by many. Nobody really thought anything about it until the Indians emphasized it, therefore empowering those that would make it into something negative.

The same is happening here in Oregon right now. Peaks and rivers and such are gradually being renamed. You can bet, though, that for every effort to change an offensive landmark name there's a brigade of contrarian (and prejudiced) local yahoos who want to keep the original names.

 

[simcha]

I never understood racism. I remember growing up in the suburbs of Chicago, after moving from a mexican neighborhood in Aurora, IL. That suburb was very white. I'm white, well, at least mostly. And my mother raised me well so that I learned to accept all people. The only bias that came down to me in my family was an anti-German bias. Being 1/4 Polish and Jewish (even when I didn't know we were Jewish until I was 15) I can kind of understand this anti-German bias. I grew out of it.

I knew we had racists in our own family. And I thought my Father wasn't racist until I was already an adult living on my own. My Mom told me a story about my Dad. The first person with whom I ever went on a date was a black girl. I liked her. She was cool and she had a car. I was fifteen. My Mom said after she and I pulled away from the house, my Dad turned to her and said, "What if they get married and we have black grandchildren?" My mother turned to him and said, "Well Bob, you can say something to him if you want to come across as a hypocrite." See, my Dad wanted us to grow up with my Mom's lack of prejudice, even though he knew it was too late for him.

When I went to High School in another suburb of Chicago, there were no black people. It was a private school. We had one black guy who transfered to our school for only one semester. He transfered out of our school because the harassment was incessant. I never knew that some of my friends were racists until then. I was stunned. It really changed how I viewed others and my friends especially. I was careful to distance myself from the racists. I never found racism to be attractive...

 

[kalipygian]

Wow, what extremes from Florida to Alaska.
Too bad, you have a body built for Florida.:biggrin1:

I guess you do not mind the cold.

I hate the cold in the Northeast and hope to move to Florida soon.

I don't do very well in the extreme heat and humidity, despite 15 or so generations of Floridino ancestors.

Re Wild Honey's mention about the flap about changing the name of Squaw Peak in Colorado, other responders have drawn different inferences than I did from the post.

The word is from the Massachusetts-Narragansett Algonquin word originally simply meaning young woman, nothing inherently offensive. Being (according to my family, no documentation) myself 1/16 Algonquin, I might reasonably have an opinion on the issue.

Features that were given that name in areas outside the area of the Algonquin language group were probably given it by white people, it is probable that there is an older name in the local Native American language that could be returned to, that is more specific to that particular feature. In my view, if there is a local name for something, that is what should be first considered.

Demanding that the name 'squaw' be removed universally is I think, choosing to be offended for no good reason.

There are quite a few words in eastern native american languages that have been taken by european americans to be generally 'indian', that were origonally foreign to most native americans, but which still get used.