Who is to say what is offensive?

[yngjock20]

Here's the thing with non-african american people being offended by historical slavery imagery; everyone is taught that the very idea of that whole 400 or so year period is offensive. To even utter it in a comical way is almost blasphemous to the black race. So when you, being a black woman, put that sort of picture in your avatar, they feel that you've lost the meaning or seriousness behind what that pic stands for.

We as black people aren't allowed to find humor in things that once degraded us because it would seem like we are forgetting our "heritage," or something. It isn't true and I believe there is a difference in using a Buckwheat avatar and showing a picture of a hanging black man with "N***er: The other dark meat" typed below it. One is not really offensive (Let's be real: The Little Rascals was funny to alot of people, color aside) and the other is basically a racist slam.

If you had the latter on your avatar, you'd be a racist...and that would suck because I think that you are a very intelligent person; however, the "Slave in a box" is just funny.

 

[prepstudinsc]

I think that NJ's avatar is hysterical--on several counts.

One thing that bothers me about Condaleeza is that with herself as a concert pianist, she closed down the DMA program at Stanford University when she was in leadership there. That sister's got issues...

As to the story about eating watermelon in Italy, probably the only ones who found it a stereotype were the other people from the US. The Italians probably did not give it a second thought.

Did you know that one of the Medici princes was bi-racial? His mother was African and his father Venetian.

 

[Osiris]

Here's the thing with non-african american people being offended by historical slavery imagery; everyone is taught that the very idea of that whole 400 or so year period is offensive. To even utter it in a comical way is almost blasphemous to the black race. So when you, being a black woman, put that sort of picture in your avatar, they feel that you've lost the meaning or seriousness behind what that pic stands for.

We as black people aren't allowed to find humor in things that once degraded us because it would seem like we are forgetting our "heritage," or something. It isn't true and I believe there is a difference in using a Buckwheat avatar and showing a picture of a hanging black man with "N***er: The other dark meat" typed below it. One is not really offensive (Let's be real: The Little Rascals was funny to alot of people, color aside) and the other is basically a racist slam.

If you had the latter on your avatar, you'd be a racist...and that would suck because I think that you are a very intelligent person; however, the "Slave in a box" is just funny.

Thank you Brother yngjock. I've always said laughter is the best way to defeat racism. My grandfolks would kill if they saw us making light of all this whereas my folks would be laughing with us. Unless this is an accurate depiction of you, why get offended?

Again, thank you brother.

 

[Osiris]

I think that NJ's avatar is hysterical--on several counts.

One thing that bothers me about Condaleeza is that with herself as a concert pianist, she closed down the DMA program at Stanford University when she was in leadership there. That sister's got issues...

As to the story about eating watermelon in Italy, probably the only ones who found it a stereotype were the other people from the US. The Italians probably did not give it a second thought.

Did you know that one of the Medici princes was bi-racial? His mother was African and his father Venetian.

I had heard that and considering the debauchery the family was sometimes associated with, not surprising. Othello the Moor? Lot's of African influence in Venice during that time of history.

 

[kalipygian]

I think that NJ's avatar is hysterical--on several counts.

One thing that bothers me about Condaleeza is that with herself as a concert pianist, she closed down the DMA program at Stanford University when she was in leadership there. That sister's got issues...

As to the story about eating watermelon in Italy, probably the only ones who found it a stereotype were the other people from the US. The Italians probably did not give it a second thought.

Did you know that one of the Medici princes was bi-racial? His mother was African and his father Venetian.

You are probably thinking of il Moro, Ludovico Sforza, fourth duke of Milan of that dynasty, (though the first to receive imperial recognition), and principal patron of Leonardo. Not a Medici.

There is speculation as to why he was called 'il Moro', translated into english as 'the moor', because he was dark complected is the usual reason. That does not appear to be the case from his portraits. Another is that it is from the italian word for 'mulberry', there is a reasonable story, which I don't remember offhand.

His father was Francesco Sforza, his mother the famous Bianca Maria Visconti, daughter of the previous Duke of Milan.(the film director is of that family)

There were some extremely handsome dark complected Medici, their parentage is well enough known.

 

[Principessa]

I think that NJ's avatar is hysterical--on several counts.

One thing that bothers me about Condaleeza is that with herself as a concert pianist, she closed down the DMA program at Stanford University when she was in leadership there. That sister's got issues... EXACTLY! If I could see some sort of tangible proof that she at some point had reached back to provide a hand up, not a hand out to some one less fortunate I would feel differently about her. Neither she, nor Clarence Thomas would be where they are without Affirmative Action. The fact that they both want to close the door on the program and not even consider any type of reformation is unconscionable to me. It's like we got ours with Affirmative Action; but screw you, fend for yourself.:tongue: As to the story about eating watermelon in Italy, probably the only ones who found it a stereotype were the other people from the US. The Italians probably did not give it a second thought. That's true, especially since I was with the University of Georgia. Then again, I was 30 that summer and most of our group of 117 was 18-23 years of age. Many young people today grow up w/o the stories of stigma and stereotype which I did. I consider that a good thing. :smile: Did you know that one of the Medici princes was bi-racial? His mother was African and his father Venetian. I vaguely recall hearing that at some point.

Honey, that's about the best post I have seen in a long time! That's the attitude I don't understand, njqt. She's black, but she's not every black person in America. If you find her (as a person, not as a black person) to be a poor leader in a leadership position, there's nothing in the world wrong with you pointing that out. Apparently, you and I see it that way, but your offended friend does not.

That's funny, but also a little sad... I'm "a white person," and I love both fried chicken and watermelon. Are you sure you aren't just a little bit black? :wink: :tongue: I can easily see why anyone, regardless of race, would enjoy either one. It's frustrating that you can't really enjoy either one without being a "walking stereotype." Sad, but true. :redface: :smile:

 

[Mem]

I can relate.

My wife is latina but is very fair skinned with red hair and freckles. She could easily pass for Irish. Oh, the number of times at parties and neighborhood picnics we've been subjected to racist editorials from people who don't realize shes not white. .

Is she white? Being Hispanic you can be white, mixed (called mulato) or black.

 

[prepstudinsc]

You are probably thinking of il Moro, Ludovico Sforza, fourth duke of Milan of that dynasty, (though the first to receive imperial recognition), and principal patron of Leonardo. Not a Medici.

Nope, I'm thinking of a Medici. I'm of Venetian heritage...I know these things.


[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Alessandro de Medici
[/FONT][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Alessandro was born in 1510 to a Black serving woman in the Medici household who, after her subsequent marriage to a muleteer, is simply referred to in existing documents as Simonetta da Collavechio. Historians today are convinced that Alessandro was fathered by the seventeen year old Cardinal Giulio de Medici who later became Pope Clement VII. Cardinal Giulio was the nephew of Lorenzo the Magnificent. He was the patron of some of the leading artists of the era and is one of the two Medici princes whose remains are buried in the famous tomb by Michaelangelo. The ethnic make up of this Medici Prince makes him the first black head of state in the modern western world.[/FONT]

 

[Principessa]

Nope, I'm thinking of a Medici. I'm of Venetian heritage...I know these things.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Alessandro de Medici[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]Alessandro was born in 1510 to a Black serving woman in the Medici household who, after her subsequent marriage to a muleteer, is simply referred to in existing documents as Simonetta da Collavechio. Historians today are convinced that Alessandro was fathered by the seventeen year old Cardinal Giulio de Medici who later became Pope Clement VII. Cardinal Giulio was the nephew of Lorenzo the Magnificent. He was the patron of some of the leading artists of the era and is one of the two Medici princes whose remains are buried in the famous tomb by Michaelangelo. The ethnic make up of this Medici Prince makes him the first black head of state in the modern western world.[/FONT]

Thus spoketh Prepstudinsc, and a much needed calm fell over the Kingdom of LPSG. :smile:

 

[kalipygian]

I see Prep was correct, I also see that the quoted article has been critiqued, it puts things as certainties that are not known for certain, and there is at least one (unrelated to this matter) mistake. So, apologies to Prep on that point, there was an 'il Moro' de Medici.

Allessandro de Medici, first hereditary duke of Florence, invested by emperor Charles V, was called il Moro. Was acquainted with him, but had a bit of confusion over the two people with the same nickname.

Looks like him having been bi racial is an interesting possibility. His recognized father was Lorenzo II de Medici, but it is considered more likely that it was really Giovanni de Medici, Clement VII PM. Who his mother was is not certain. It is certain he was not legitimate.

He looks pale in his portraits. It is mentioned that Simonetta da Collavechio was north african, most north africans are similar in complexion to mediterranean europeans. Too bad there isn't a portrait of her.
There certainly were some sub saharan african servants and slaves, but they were a small percentage.
Our perspective that all slaves are dark skinned africans effects our presumptions. That was not the case in renaissance Tuscany.

Slave trading was a major source of income for (for example) La Serenissima, I think the main source was around the black sea.

(The Portuguese had been importing sub saharan african slaves in large numbers, for nearly a century(that's the real reason they went around africa.) for their own use. I think they continually had a labor shortage.)

Recently read a history of Catherine de Medici and Diane de Poitiers by princess Michael of Kent, (a descendant) she didn't mention this, but she is also quite a snob.(not planning on reading anything else of hers:wink

 

[naughty]

I see Prep was correct, I also see that the quoted article has been critiqued, it puts things as certainties that are not known for certain, and there is at least one (unrelated to this matter) mistake. So, apologies to Prep on that point, there was an 'il Moro' de Medici.

Allessandro de Medici, first hereditary duke of Florence, invested by emperor Charles V, was called il Moro. Was acquainted with him, but had a bit of confusion over the two people with the same nickname.

Looks like him having been bi racial is an interesting possibility. His recognized father was Lorenzo II de Medici, but it is considered more likely that it was really Giovanni de Medici, Clement VII PM. Who his mother was is not certain. It is certain he was not legitimate.

He looks pale in his portraits. It is mentioned that Simonetta da Collavechio was north african, most north africans are similar in complexion to mediterranean europeans. Too bad there isn't a portrait of her.
There certainly were some sub saharan african servants and slaves, but they were a small percentage.
Our perspective that all slaves are dark skinned africans effects our presumptions. That was not the case in renaissance Tuscany.

Slave trading was a major source of income for (for example) La Serenissima, I think the main source was around the black sea.

(The Portuguese had been importing sub saharan african slaves in large numbers, for nearly a century(that's the real reason they went around africa.) for their own use. I think they continually had a labor shortage.)

Recently read a history of Catherine de Medici and Diane de Poitiers by princess Michael of Kent, (a descendant) she didn't mention this, but she is also quite a snob.(not planning on reading anything else of hers:wink

That was such an unfortunate situation for all involved. The more I read about the way in which many of the arranged royal marriages were lived the more I am glad to be a commoner. So many of these poor women were sacrificed on the altar of their countries . Used as mere chess pieces for the powers that were in place at the time.

 

[Principessa]

That was such an unfortunate situation for all involved. The more I read about the way in which many of the arranged royal marriages were lived the more I am glad to be a commoner. So many of these poor women were sacrificed on the altar of their countries . Used as mere chess pieces for the powers that were in place at the time.

So true. Marriages were little more than political/business deals for centuries. That's why his and her bedrooms started; many of those couples couldn't stand each other. I think the concept of sex being a marital duty came about because of this, as well as the notion of an heir and a spare. After the lineage was assured husband and wife could go their own way.

 

[naughty]

That was such an unfortunate situation for all involved. The more I read about the way in which many of the arranged royal marriages were lived the more I am glad to be a commoner. So many of these poor women were sacrificed on the altar of their countries . Used as mere chess pieces for the powers that were in place at the time.

So true. Marriages were little more than political/business deals for centuries. That's why his and her bedrooms started; many of those couples couldn't stand each other. I think the concept of sex being a marital duty came about because of this, as well as the notion of an heir and a spare. After the lineage was assured husband and wife could go their own way.

Actually, the king could do his thing but the queen was often expected to be above reproach . Remember the only cargo her vessel was supposed to be carrying was royal.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Actually, the king could do his thing but the queen was often expected to be above reproach . Remember the only cargo her vessel was supposed to be carrying was royal.

Promiscuous queens so often were executed and replaced.

 

[Principessa]

Actually, the king could do his thing but the queen was often expected to be above reproach . Remember the only cargo her vessel was supposed to be carrying was royal.

Promiscuous queens so often were executed and replaced.

I stand corrected. :redface: I have been reading way too many historical romances.:tongue:

 

[wldhoney]

It was at the onset of the Protestant Reformation and Victorian ages that sex became something to be ashamed of. Genteel women were thought to be too delicate to enjoy it, and brides would often go into "decline" after their first trip to the marital bed to prove they were gently bred. Love was considered unfashionable, but once married with heirs both parties would often take lovers and mistresses. And their erotica was just as explicit as it is today.

What is interesting to me is that during the middle ages sex was celebrated and it was believed that a woman had to orgasm to conceive. If a woman was raped and she ended up pregnant, any charges were dropped as it was thought that she must have wanted and enjoyed it.

 

[Osiris]

History teachers were not this sexy when I was in school. Yeesh.:wink:

 

[B_cigarbabe]

Ooh, I wanna teach too!,I wanna! I wnt to be a "sexy teacher". Please?
cigarbabe:saevil:

 

[wldhoney]

Ooh, I wanna teach too!,I wanna! I wnt to be a "sexy teacher". Please?
cigarbabe:saevil:

You in front of the class with a ruler, cigar, high heels and garter belt. :wink:

 

[AlteredEgo]

I stand corrected. :redface: I have been reading way too many historical romances.:tongue:

I wish I hadn't discovered those the minute puberty hit. Then maybe I could enjoy them now. My mother tried to keep me from reading them, but I had a library card. LOL